[Aptorian]

I think what he ment with the question was how old WJ is?

Everyone thinks that WJ is younger than Dujek and about the age of Fiddler.

Dujek is supposed to be 70 years old so it's an interesting problem.

[Optimus Prime]

Dujek didn't go through Raraku...hence he looks older than Whiskeyjack

[Zendog13]

Aye and lets not forget that immediately after Raraku and Kalama and Quick joining them, the Bridgeburners (under WJ command) retook Gdanisban.

Quote: (MoI, paperback, p362 UK)
"The first blood-letting engagement of the Bridgeburners was the retaking of Gdanisban - a mage, an assassin and 70 soldiers who swept into a rebel stronghold of four hundred desert warriors and crushed them in a single night"

Reason enough for a promotion methinks.

[Mcflury]

about that fight: did they already have moranth munition at that point? I think not, but not too sure. (I believe they didn't, because in RG it's told that WJ trusted the moranth munition to Fid and Hedge... because they would be the only crackpots mad enough to work with it... besides Quick and Trotts maybe. So that led me to believe they didn't have the moranth munition yet at that point, which basically makes taking a stronghold of 400 men with 72 men pretty nice )

[Zendog13]

To say the least. Not sure when the the Moranth sided with the Mallazans though, time-wise. Anyone care to tell us?

[Mcflury]

well, lik I said, it's not sure they DIDN'T have the munition yet at that point... could be they got the munition just after Kalam and QB joined the BB ranks and right before they took Gdanisban...
(in that same part I was describing before it's also mentioned Hedge and Fid went to test the munition in a wide plain of sand... so that could idd be the desert anyways )

[Battalion]

It was after those wars and back on Genabakis. I think those munitions were first used against the Mott Irregulars, but I may be wrong.

[Aptorian]

Yeah, they got the munitions when they entered the alliance with the Moranth. It was woods not a desert Fiddler and Hedge tested the munitions.

[StormofHeaven]

Weren't storm and gesler part of the original group? Stormy was adjunct was he not?

[Coco with marshmallows]

Aptorian;240346 said:

Yeah, they got the munitions when they entered the alliance with the Moranth. It was woods not a desert Fiddler and Hedge tested the munitions.

but, in NoK doesn't Temper remember them being used in seven cities before the fall of the first sword?

[Aptorian]

Original group? Not the BBs or the Old Guard. They may have been in Dassems invasion force on 7C but many different armies participated.

[Aptorian]

Cocoreturns;240421 said:

but, in NoK doesn't Temper remember them being used in seven cities before the fall of the first sword?

Damn I actually think you might right about that quote. Is that a mistake?

When did the Genebackis campaign start again. I sort of had it put down chronologically as first they finished the 7Cs campaign then they began on Genebackis.

But that's not certain, it does raise questions about how long the Genebackis campaign has been running and when the BBs then started participating. I thought the trip through raraku and the fall of Dassem wasn't seperated by more than a year.

As I see it:
G'Danisban fell to Dassems host,
Quick and 11 mages flee
Raraku
more engagements on 7C?
BBs on Genebackis
Fiddler and Hedge learn to use munitions.
those munitions spread to the 7C campaign.
Dassem falls and Y'ghatan burns.
The BBs are for some reason pulled out and partake in the burning of the Mouse

[Coco with marshmallows]

Aptorian;240427 said:

When did the Genebackis campaign start again. I sort of had it put down chronologically as first they finished the 7Cs campaign then they began on Genebackis.

so did i. i think i brought this up in the NoK forum a while back, and someone came back with a timeline similar to yours as a (possible) explanation.

of course, not having GotM with me, i can't recall when exactly they got to Genebackis, i believe it's mentioned by Crokus at some point, when he's musing on the fact that they invaded from both East and West.

I figure it may just be one of SE's *cough-timeline issues-cough*

you know, like Fid's age, Barghast canoes, etc....

[D'rek]

Aptorian;240427 said:

As I see it:
G'Danisban fell to Dassems host,
Quick and 11 mages flee
Raraku
more engagements on 7C?
BBs on Genebackis
Fiddler and Hedge learn to use munitions.
those munitions spread to the 7C campaign.
Dassem falls and Y'ghatan burns.
The BBs are for some reason pulled out and partake in the burning of the Mouse

The only conflict in that is really the Mouse part, the rest is pretty feasible, and since the burning of the Mouse takes part in the prologue of GotM, it could easily just be a GotMism. Alternatively, is there some way the burning of the Mouse could have taken place while the BBs were heading from 7-Cities to Geneback, and hence would happen to be in Quon Tali? It wouldn't make much sense to recall the BBs to quell a sudden riot when they're on another continent, after all.

[Aptorian]

But for there to be munitions on 7C at the fall of the last holy city, the BBs need to have come to Malaz City from Genebackis. It could be that many years passed between the time of Raraku and Dassems death. I just never understood it that way.

[D'rek]

The BBs were the first Malazans to start using the moranth munitions, but I'm sure after a couple proof-of-concept demonstrations the munitions were spread to the rest of the army and then shipped overseas back to the other armies, so the BBs didn't need to come back to 7C in order for there to be munitions...

[Aptorian]

No no, but the way I imagined the 7C campaign went down I thought Dassems death and Y'ghatans fall came directly after the fall of... G'danisban? what ever city the BBs were in just before Raraku?

I mean I imagined it took less than a year between the creation of the BBs and Dassems death. Meaning not enough time to sail to Genebackis, get into the fight, get the munitions, learn to use them, teach a hundred other sappers to use them AND THEN TRAVEL TO MALAZ CITY!

[D'rek]

It always seemed to be like that to me too, but maybe that's just our own assumptions. Maybe it was more like:

1) BBs are spawned in Raraku
2) BBs take G'Danisban
3) The 7C campaign continues slowly under Dassem Ultor; meanwhile a new campaign is begun in Genebackis
4) the BBs are shipped to Genebackis, Moranth munitions are acquired and sent around the empire
5) Dassem Ultor falls at Y'Ghatan
6) the BBs are recalled (maybe because of Dassem's fall?) to either 7C or Malaz City
7) the burning of the Mouse quarter

If the 7C campaing was very long and the alliance with the moranth achieved relatively quickly, then this is possible. I can especially envision the 7C campaing being just about done, with Y'ghatan the last stronghold of resistance when Dassem dies...

However, I don't think it's like that either. This is probably just another assumption, but it always seemed to me that the BBs' participation in the Genebackan campaign was fairly continuous, therefore I think, for some reason, the burning of the Mouse Quarter happened while they were in transit from 7C to Geneback

ie:1) BBs are spawned in Raraku
2) BBs take G'Danisban
3) The 7C campaign continues slowly under Dassem Ultor; meanwhile a new campaign is begun in Genebackis
4) the BBs are sent to Genebackis, while en route they deal with the Mouse quarter
6) the BBs arrive in Northern Genebackis; Moranth munitions are acquired and sent around the empire
5) Dassem Ultor falls at Y'Ghatan
6) the BBs continue fighting in Genebackis leading all the way to the beginning of GotM

[Aptorian]

Ah but you see that's the thing. The whole series starts with WJ and Paran and the meeting with the empress on the top of moks keep. During the burning of the mouse.

Paran remarks... something on the death of Dassem and Yghatan. WJ responds with something like "Hoods balls, kid they are only just shifting through the hot rubble now" Dassems body hasn't been found and no one is supposed to know anything yet.

[Zendog13]

So...what is wrong with Mouse being chronologically days/hours after Dasem "dies"? Traveling through warens would get them there in no time. I found thye quote you are talking about Apt. I'm afraid I cannot quote exact print/page since its a pdf. scan I found and carry arouynd with me. But it is first or seccond page I reckon.

"" High-ranking soldiers and officials of the Empire commonly passed through Mock's Hold. The island of Malaz remained a vital port of call, especially now that the Korel wars to the south had begun. Ganoes had brushed shoulders with more than his share, here and in the capital, Unta.
'Is it true, then?' Ganoes asked boldly.
'Is what true?'
'The First Sword of Empire. Dassem Ultor. We heard in the capital before we left. He's dead. Is it true? Is Dassem dead?'
The man seemed to flinch, his gaze unwavering on the Mouse. 'Such is war,' he muttered, under his breath, as if the words were not meant for anyone else's ears.
'You're with the Third. I thought the Third was with him, in Seven Cities. At Y'Ghatan-'
'Hood's Breath, they're still looking for his body in the still-hot rubble of that damned city, and here you, are, a merchant's son three thousand leagues from Seven Cities with information only a few are supposed to possess.' He still did not turn. 'I know not your sources, but take my advice and keep what you know to yourself.'
Ganoes shrugged. 'It's said he betrayed a god.'
Finally the man faced him. His face was scarred, and something that might have been a burn marred his jaw and left cheek. For all that, he looked young for a commander. 'Heed the lesson there, son.'
'What lesson?'
'Every decision you make can change the world. The best life is the one the gods don't notice. You want to live free, boy, live quietly.'
'I want to be a soldier. A hero.'
'You'll grow out of it.""

Paran (and others apparently) were also under the impression that the 3rd were in Y'ghatan as we can see. That does not mean that the BB's were there though does it? They were only a part of the 3rd. Feel free to throw beer at me if I am wrong