[Zanth13]

Gibby;238274 said:

I think a lot of the thoughts here make sense.

The reasons I thought Cotillion wanted Pearl dead (some mentioned already in posts) could be any/all of the following
1. vengeance against Claw
2. purge it of Mallick Rel's influence
3. Pure hatred/desire to weaken Laseen
4. Cotillion thought Pearl would flip on Laseen and help Kalam, when he didn't, Cotillion had Apsalar kill him.

Also, remember Pearl used poison against Kalam, another assassin, which was against the code. Perhaps that was the straw that broke Cotillion's back and made him send Apsalar in. Without Pearl's "cheating" that way, Kalam may have made it to the fleet.

1. could be true
2.Pearl wasnt under mallicks influence, in fact pearl would probably have ended up killing both the upstarts
3. maybe but that doesnt seem like cottillion's style
4. that wouldn't make sence because the list came out at the biginning of the book, pearl was doomed from the beginning...there was really nothing he could do or not do to save himself by that time.

[Gibby]

Zanth13;238305 said:

4. that wouldn't make sence because the list came out at the biginning of the book, pearl was doomed from the beginning...there was really nothing he could do or not do to save himself by that time.

The list? I guess I missed something.... can you explain? Thanks!

Also, you are right, I remember Pearl saying he'd kill Korbolo and Mallick. But I also recall someone saying (forums) that he may or may not have succeeded b/c he wouldn't know who was loyal to Laseen and who loyal to those jerks. Not that that matters much here, just commenting.

[Zanth13]

Gibby;238307 said:

The list? I guess I missed something.... can you explain? Thanks!

Also, you are right, I remember Pearl saying he'd kill Korbolo and Mallick. But I also recall someone saying (forums) that he may or may not have succeeded b/c he wouldn't know who was loyal to Laseen and who loyal to those jerks. Not that that matters much here, just commenting.

As long as I have remembered correctly at the beginning of BH Cotillion has Apsalar working for him again, the names are given off screne but she is given a list of names of who she has to kill, the first one being that guy in seven cities she found dead already (i think i am remembering this correctly)
she mentions is later on that she has only one name left.

[Gibby]

Zanth13;238324 said:

As long as I have remembered correctly at the beginning of BH Cotillion has Apsalar working for him again, the names are given off screne but she is given a list of names of who she has to kill, the first one being that guy in seven cities she found dead already (i think i am remembering this correctly)
she mentions is later on that she has only one name left.

Ahh yes, right! Thanks for reminding me of that.

[Crop]

*Here's my theory; I don't know if this has been thought of yet...i haven't had the time to read the 3 pages of this thread...so here it goes:

ST and Cotillion wanted to gain some control of the Claw, they planned on doing this by making Kalam the new Claw master. Kalams only true rival was Pearl...hence he had to die

-Of course Kalams sad demise changed those plans a little...

[Skywalker]

I don't think ST and Cot want to control the Claw or have anything to do with the Empire beyond using it as a chip in the bigger game they are playing. They've proven themselves reasonably competent at manipulating the Empire to do what they need it to do... explicit control on the Empire has never been their aim - which is why (NoK spoiler).

Spoiler

they didn't bother putting Laseen in her place on the night of the Shadow Moon and were content with faking their deaths

Also... Kalam isn't dead. In cold storage, morelike

[Crop]

sky_walker;238409 said:

Also... Kalam isn't dead. In cold storage, morelike

But you wouldn't exactly say that he is fit to be the new Claw master at the moment

[Mcflury]

why not? as soon as he can walk again, he can claim the title of master of the claw, since basically the claw has been decimated (and Pearl is gone now). Also, by pretending Kalam is dead (most people don't know he's in the Azath, most believe he was killed) Korbolo Dom and his retard mage will forget about that 'little' pawn on the chessboard... making him a very valuable piece since he can suddenly sneak up behind someone (or in chess-term: diagonally in front of someone) and take that person out (and thus release Laseen from the nasty piece of dung she's in now)

[Crop]

He probably won't be able to walk again anytime soon

[Mcflury]

do you have some secret information that we don't have?

[Crop]

No...

But considering the fact that he was to badly poisoned for ST to heal, hence ST putting him inside the Deadhouse where he MIGHT be able to recover in time(and by that i think a lot of time) i don't think he will be in any claw mastering shape for some time yet...

I could remember it all wrong though...sp maybe someone else could help claryfying it a bit

[Aptorian]

You know that was actually a bit strange. Why didn't ST heal Kalam? I don't remember the scne very well? Was it because ST needed to keep a low profile that night?

[Abyss]

Couple of reasons as i see it:

1. He was keeping a low profile. Kalam was pretty far gone and saving him would have been a major power expenditure;
2. Kalam's otataral was a problem;
3. ST wanted Kalam in storage in the Azath for future use, and NOT as Clawmaster, but as part of ST's cadre/collection of killers which currently includes (subject to Azath, QoD and other elements): RAllick (EDIT: bcs 'Rellick' was a dude on The Beachcombers) Nom, Vorcan, Dunsparrow, Leoman and possibly Topper.

I'm fairly sure we haven't seen the last of Kalam, tho he may get a few books' break now, since he's been a POV in four books, three of them major plotlines of his own.

- Abyss, thinks the poor guy deserves a vacation.

[Crop]

Pretty much sums up what i though abyss

-But who is this Rellick? Some distant cusin of Rallick?

[Mcflury]

well, even though ST might have need of Kalam for his assassin stuff, I'm pretty sure Kalam will eventually also be the guy making sure Laseen gets freed of her nasty position. That's just gut-feeling though

And I do believe the most important reason why ST didn't heal Kalam was because he idd didn't want to pull attention... especially from that one guy/demon dude that came out of the house just as ST left again (as if ST was actually running and was affraid of that person...don't ask me a name though, I can't remember)

[Aptorian]

Abyss;238595 said:

Couple of reasons as i see it:

1. He was keeping a low profile. Kalam was pretty far gone and saving him would have been a major power expenditure;
2. Kalam's otataral was a problem;
3. ST wanted Kalam in storage in the Azath for future use, and NOT as Clawmaster, but as part of ST's cadre/collection of killers which currently includes (subject to Azath, QoD and other elements): Rellick Nom, Vorcan, Dunsparrow, Leoman and possibly Topper.

I'm fairly sure we haven't seen the last of Kalam, tho he may get a few books' break now, since he's been a POV in four books, three of them major plotlines of his own.

- Abyss, thinks the poor guy deserves a vacation.

The first one I agree with the low profile idea. I don't see healing someone as a big problem for a god powerwise though.

The Second is a bit iffy, what happens if a god of magic touches ottataral? Nothing but nulifying his power? Then ST could just have taken the knives and thrown them away.

To the third one, yes ST clearly wanted Kalam, but he was shit scared the big guy was going to croak before they reached the Azath. Why not insta-heal him and while he's recovering from the force heal haul him into the Azath?

EDIT: I can actually answer my own question easily. The scene wouldn't have been as exciting if Kalam hadn't been dyring. Suspense sells the authors story.

[Abyss]

Aptorian;238618 said:

...what happens if a god of magic touches ottataral? Nothing but nulifying his power? Then ST could just have taken the knives and thrown them away...

As we've seen in DG v Fener and TB v Poliel, Otataral can do BAD things to gods. he could have thrown the knife away, but maybe he wants Kalam to have it later.

Aptorian;238618 said:

...The scene wouldn't have been as exciting if Kalam hadn't been dyring. Suspense sells the authors story.

Exactly. Trust in SE. SE is good. SE is great.


- Abyss, needs to to go pray facing British Columbia now...

[Mentalist]

Otataral was def. an issue. And yes, ST wanted Kalam to have his knives--hence he took them from Apasar. and the fact was, he EXPECTED Kalam to make it himself--just so happened that a wall that was supposed to be there was gone due to rioting or such.
As for him getting healed--in DG Gothos had a jug of insta-heal that fixed Fiddler up pretty damn fast..... Don't see why Kala m can't use it.
As for Laseen-saving, that's where Topper will come in (somehow)
Not sure if we can assume that QoD's working with ST--i'd love for LIght and Life Houses to have their own agendas and start actually doing stuff...

[Abyss]

Related aside, i loved that scene... Kalam has just killed a few hundred Claw including a bunch of Kalam-clone types, he's wounded, parboiled and dying of the evilestiest poison ever, and he gets up and starts crawling for the Deadhouse based on sheer memory bcs dammit, he is too bas ass muthafucka to just die.

And that, THAT, is why Shadowthrone saved him - because anyone that tough, you WANT to have as an agent.

- Abyss, figures Kalam gets to be leader of ST's cadre by sheer force of badass...

[Gem Windcaster]

*Agrees with Abyss*

I really loved every second of every scene with Kalam in that book. Nothing beats the good ol' 'man against universe motif'.