[Optimus Prime]

Hi all,

Let me first state that I hold to no particular religion or dogma. My question is simply this to those who hold to the major (or minor) religious views.

Would the discovery of Alien Life in the Universe change your own beliefs? Would it hurt the Bible and other major books?

I myself think the answer is yes...somewhat I think a lot of religious people are not prepared to deal with this. Evolution is hard enough for some to accept or listen to, but by blowing the lid off of the "We are not Alone" debate....would the world's religions be scrambling to find their own answers?

[caladanbrood]

Xander;234551 said:

I think a lot of religious people are not prepared to deal with this. Evolution is hard enough for some to accept or listen to

I think you're confusing "a lot of religious people" with "the generally fundamentalist vocal religious people"

And no, it wouldn't change any of my beliefs - after all, if life came into being on this planet, via divine intervention or otherwise, there's no reason it couldn't do so somewhere else. I don't go for the whole "only chosen children" thing;)

[Optimus Prime]

Sorry didn't mean to generalize but you get the point.

I think a lot of "by the book" people would have problems coping.

[Spindrift]

no, of course not. Dogma has weathered worse already.
Discovery of alien life would be a huge thing, but i don't think it would have a great deal of impact on religion, or at least, not the the way you imply. easy enough to say that god created them too. The big question for religion would be (if the alien life is intelligent) if they have souls and can get into heaven, or if they are just animals.

Theres quite a bit of fiction that tries to imagine exactly this topic, but i would recommend reading The Sparrow by Mary Doria Russell. It has very little action and it's not fast paced, but if you like a masterfully written, thought provoking story, then i can't recommend it highly enough.

[Aptorian]

Spindrift;234596 said:

Theres quite a bit of fiction that tries to imagine exactly this topic, but i would recommend reading The Sparrow by Mary Doria Russell. It has very little action and it's not fast paced, but if you like a masterfully written, thought provoking story, then i can't recommend it highly enough.

Or "stranger in a strange land" which gets pretty insane by the end - It's a classic sci-fi book by the way.

[Spindrift]

Aptorian;234597 said:

Or "stranger in a strange land" which gets pretty insane by the end - It's a classic sci-fi book by the way.

my god, I think that's actually the only heinlein that i haven't read, for some reason

[Aptorian]

It's the only one that I have read, Starship Troopers isn't available in Danish Libraries, which is sad.

[Skywalker]

Xander;234551 said:

Would the discovery of Alien Life in the Universe change your own beliefs? Would it hurt the Bible and other major books?

I'd answer that question with a very generalized, slightly lengthy rant... which now follows.

First, a very nitpicky semantics point: I think the 'discovery of alien life' wouldn't be the real crisis point - it is pretty much a foregone conclusion (based on the Drake equation, in whatever way you form it) that there IS intelligent life out there. The fun will begin if a) contact is possible between said aliens and us terrans and if someone actually bothers to establish contact.

I think there will be a lot of changes if there is contact. The biggest changes will be in the way we percieve authority... Governments will seem rather silly and some form of 'world government' or at least 'Earth diplomatic corps' will have to come up.

The time-emboldened concepts of property, territory, tribalism, nationalism, 'homo sapien sapien focussed' food and evolution pyramids... it will all be shaken to the core.

Science may or may not take a giant leap forward. There will be great upheaval in the way we percieve the universe - if these aliens have a working Grand Unified Theory or some such, or at least if they have valid refuting/ supporting evidence for our theories, there will be much fun. Biology, anthropology, sociology - most sciences concerned with the biosphere will have to be rewritten.

Astrology will die a much overdue death (one can hope)..

To speak of your original quesiton, I think whole new religions will spring up if there is enough cultural exchange - there will be vast periods of social trauma to deal with, because essentially the ETs will potentially bring with them an entire new set of philosophies, beliefs and practices.

Finally, conspiracy theorists and imagineers of every kind will have a field day...

Man, what a thrill just to imagine it... what I would give to live it.

sky_walker - SFF fan to the core

[Cougar]

If the aliens had a similar psycology to us (ie:Star Trek type Aliens) and were religious then you would get a whole slew of sub-religions matching up similarities between our religions and theirs.

Who knows if they had a similar concept of god as one of the major religions it might strengthen it.

On the other hand if their psycology was radically different (eg: no morals, no concept of good vs evil) think Tyrathca in Knights Dawn or any model of unfeeling high concept aliens, then it would ask fundamental questions of how a benevolent and loving god would bring into being a sentient race without imposing the same free will/morality on them.

If it were talking Abrahamic religions there is no reason that Alien life is incompatible with the Torah, Bible or Koran, from their point of view when god gave the word to the various prophets why would he have freaked everyone out by telling them that 3000trillion miles away there was another intelligent species? Who would even have understood it! Being made in gods image would be further enforced if they were roughly analogous to humanity as well.

[Skywalker]

Cougar;234632 said:

If it were talking Abrahamic religions there is no reason that Alien life is incompatible with the Torah, Bible or Koran, from their point of view when god gave the word to the various prophets why would he have freaked everyone out by telling them that 3000trillion miles away there was another intelligent species? Who would even have understood it! Being made in gods image would be further enforced if they were roughly analogous to humanity as well.

The chances of the aliens being even vaguely humanoid or even bipedal are slim... (nerdy sidebar: of course that depends on what formulation of the anthropic principle you go with)

As I see it, the big problem the Abrahamic religions would have is this: If God made Adam in his image, the aliens would be deemed 'inferior' to humanity... that would not make easy going if they were technologically superior to us, or overwhelmingly more 'powerful' or 'intelligent' or whatever. To use a provocative metaphor, any demonstration of alien superiority would be a very 'Hitler at the '36 Olympics watching Jesse Owens' kind of moment for the devout.

I'd also like to point out that the human race's track record on this is already quite bad... and the Abrahamic Religions - Christianity in particular - has a horrible track record on dealing with 'aliens' of another sort:

When explorers from the West began to come across aborigines/ native americans/ the african populace/ asians et al, they were quick to describe these slightly different looking folk as 'savages' or 'pagans' or some such. They also had no problem enslaving them or in general deeming them inferior. It is only in the last two centuries that we have BEGUN to reconcile to the fact that humans of all skin colors and shapes and sizes are equals in most ways that matter.

If we make such a fuss (and take five centuries and counting to sort out the problems) over color (hair, skin, eyes what not), imagine if we ran across an alien race with a form not remotely comparable to ours

What if, for instance, we ran across a race of intelligent insectoids (a la Starship Troopers) or some such?

[paladin]

wouldnt phase me.. but im a deist. we have a bit more open minds than some religious folks

[Goaswerfraiejen]

sky_walker;234634 said:

When explorers from the West began to come across aborigines/ native americans/ the african populace/ asians et al, they were quick to describe these slightly different looking folk as 'savages' or 'pagans' or some such. They also had no problem enslaving them or in general deeming them inferior. It is only in the last two centuries that we have BEGUN to reconcile to the fact that humans of all skin colors and shapes and sizes are equals in most ways that matter.

If we make such a fuss (and take five centuries and counting to sort out the problems) over color (hair, skin, eyes what not), imagine if we ran across an alien race with a form not remotely comparable to ours

I'd like to point out that "racially"-based slavery is a fairly recent phenomenon, and that while slavery has existed for millenia, it has always (until not too long ago) been based on the spoils of conquest. It's hardly a Christian phenomenon.


Other than that, I have little to add. I certainly agree that our ego would take a bit of a hit. Whether or not such a discovery would prove problematic for the world religions is another question, but I'm inclined to speculate that no, it wouldn't really pose much of a threat; in this day and age, I think we're much more open to such phenomena. It may sometimes be hard to see, but the religious climate changes with our socio-political and cultural situation, and right now we're pretty mellow.

I mean, it's not very hard to argue that "creation in God's image" doesn't mean that God looks like an elderly man; all it means is that the human essence is contained within the infinitely more perfect essence of God--an insectoid species could easily just contain an equal amount of a similar (or different but not inferior) essence. If you're a Christian and worshipping an elderly man, you've got a problem with idolatry. :heyhey:

[Cougar]

sky_walker;234634 said:

As I see it, the big problem the Abrahamic religions would have is this: If God made Adam in his image, the aliens would be deemed 'inferior' to humanity... that would not make easy going if they were technologically superior to us, or overwhelmingly more 'powerful' or 'intelligent' or whatever. To use a provocative metaphor, any demonstration of alien superiority would be a very 'Hitler at the '36 Olympics watching Jesse Owens' kind of moment for the devout.

I've got to admit I worded my reply in anticipation of this very answer so rep to SW for answering.:cool: I was going to point out that most religions which invoke the "Humans are made in gods image" would most probably pick on the elements of the aliens' physique that corresponded to our own and say that they demostrate evidence that god made both races in his image.

Alternately, races which were apparently 'animal' may be regarded as demonic or satanic.

[Silencer]

In regards to the original topic - no, it wouldn't destroy religious doctrine.
It might start a war, but there would still be both sides saying "I'm right".
I think it depends (as others have pointed out), on the religious persuasion of the alien lifeforms. If they were Christian, no probs, Muslim, same thing. If they believe in a different higher power? Well, can anyone say 911 times 1000?
Of course, the aliens might even have a way of proving (to unbelievers) that their religion/human religion actually is the right one...it depends.
Of course, the chance of any of this happening are currently extremely slim, given that another species may evolve on another planet, they would have to be hugely advanced to even reach us, or we would have to make huge advances of our own to reach them....

[tharinock]

Quote

On the other hand if their psycology was radically different (eg: no morals, no concept of good vs evil) think Tyrathca in Knights Dawn or any model of unfeeling high concept aliens, then it would ask fundamental questions of how a benevolent and loving god would bring into being a sentient race without imposing the same free will/morality on them.

Just cuz they don't see good and evil like us doesn't mean they have no morals. Take the Jaffa in Stargate. They are devoutly religious and moral, they are just being misled by evil people and so their idea of good is our idea of evil. In the later seasons, that applies to Ori worshippers. Maybe they view everything as shades of grey and that no act is 100% good or evil. Also, humans do not have a unified view on good vs. evil. religious fundamentalists do not like stem cell research because it is evil by killing babies, but many other people (like me) are for it because it is for the greater good.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Two things.

1. No, it wouldn't cause a problem. I'm sure a passage or verse in [insert holy book] will be found or reinterpreted to have predicted or explained such a discovery. Plus this question is really a disguised version of "can evidence affect religious belief?" The answer to that question is: no. That's the whole point.

2. The original poster said "alien life," not "intelligent alien life". I'm assuming he thought the mere existence of any non-terrestrial life of any level of sophistication was the issue, not the possible world-systems intelligent aliens might have.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

Cougar;234741 said:

I've got to admit I worded my reply in anticipation of this very answer so rep to SW for answering.:cool: I was going to point out that most religions which invoke the "Humans are made in gods image" would most probably pick on the elements of the aliens' physique that corresponded to our own and say that they demostrate evidence that god made both races in his image.

Alternately, races which were apparently 'animal' may be regarded as demonic or satanic.

Like I said above, I'm not sure why this passage is commonly interpreted as having a bearing on physical resemblance. To presume that an infinite being resembles us physically--or is even physical--isn't just absurd and anthropocentric, it borders on idolatry. As I understand it, "made in God's image" refers to man's essence, or an essential metaphysical characteristic possessed by man that is reflected to infinity in God (such as freedom of the will, good will, reason, etc.). To impose an anthropomorphic resemblance on God would be to severely limit his infinity, and it seems like such a silly assumption. Besides, it leaves us prone to worshipping false idols.

[Skywalker]

Goaswerfraiejen;234802 said:

Like I said above, I'm not sure why this passage is commonly interpreted as having a bearing on physical resemblance.

@ Goaswerfraiejen... I never thought of it that way. Rep coming your way... I am not a Christian myself, but have read the Bible some and been exposed to whatever interpreted parts of the philosophy/ dogma I could find on sources like Wikipedia. I did always take God/ Yahweh as an anthropomorphic/ 'old man' deity... that also has a lot to do with Michaelangelo and that darn chapel roof he decorated

@DM... I hear ya... the original poster did only talk about life... not about intelligent life... But way I see it the chances of us finding non-intelligent life out there are slim to none because we currently have no way of breaking the lightspeed barrier with an FTL drive (or anything approaching it).

What that leaves is communicating with another race using a lightspeed constrained communication medium - and that would require a response, thereby requiring the beings to be technologically (or biologically) advanced and intelligent.

So I guess I was just ranting on the more likely scenario

@ Cougar... thanks mate... nice leading post. Methinks thou art crafty

[Optimus Prime]

Well,

I spoke to a guy the other day who truly holds to this belief.

His words verbatim:

"Space is an illusion created by God so we have something to look at....it's not really there."

Now I count myself as an open-minded, liberal type...in that I will give anyone's viewpoint consideration...even if I eventually don't agree with it. Having said that...this guy made me want to run around screaming and tearing out my hair.

I'm from the southern part of the U.S. originally...and if you guys have never visited or seen churches in this area...there are some pretty serious people who take the Bible literally...and when I say Literally i mean they think EVERY WORD IS TRUE.

I think that the discovery of alien life (whether intelligent or not) will be the single greatest event in human history. The sheer arrogance it takes to think that a universe as large as ours is...(if it is the only one ) is bereft of intelligent life boggles me.

I'm not even really into sci-fi although I've long had a love of astronomy, yet I keep wondering if certain governments already know about alien life. I for one think that beneath the ice of Europa will be the first place we find alien lifeforms. And in the polar caps of Mars.

Sorry for ranting

[tharinock]

as for a ftl drive, that may be impossible. I am not sure exactly how the physics works, but a more feasible engine would be one that bends the space time continuum. essentially, a wormhole maker (like a stargate) capable of making a wormhole letting out anywhere desired..