[Assail]

Thelomen Toblerone, on May 6 2009, 06:59 AM, said:

I love papal infallibility, it makes so very, very little sense.

No more purgatory! So what, it was there before, the Pope says "no more" and it disappears? WTF happens to the people in it at the time?

Isnt original sin what Jesus died for to get rid of?

I'm sure they managed to figure out something that explains it all. They always do. Great thing is, it's so see-through that many a joke can be made out of it

[Thelomen Toblerone]

The pope would be the best person to have on a pub quiz team. Whatever answer he guesses, technically he's correct. Pure win.

What happens if the Pope says "The following statement is true. The previous statement was false." Does his head explode?

[Cold Iron]

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

The Pope is only infallible in matters of doctrine.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Thelomen Toblerone, on May 6 2009, 03:59 PM, said:

I love papal infallibility, it makes so very, very little sense.

No more purgatory! So what, it was there before, the Pope says "no more" and it disappears? WTF happens to the people in it at the time?

Isnt original sin what Jesus died for to get rid of?

I don't wan't to be pedantic, expecially on doctrinal matters, but the Pope said that Limbus didn't exist not purgatory.
For Catholics Limbus is the place where unbaptized people went, Purgatory is where people who didn't deserve to go to Hell go to redeem their sins before they can enter Heaven.

This post has been edited by Bauchelain the Evil: 08 May 2009 - 06:03 PM

[Eddie Dean]

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on May 5 2009, 04:02 PM, said:

Personally, I would be hesitant to join a religion where the odds say I won't get into heaven even if I'm good.

If you read the New Testament, it is continually stated throughout it that to get into heaven doesn't require perfection, but faith. To believe in Jesus and what he says. It never says that to be saved you must be sin-free. That doesn't mean as a Christian, I can ignore my faults, but instead to truly confess them to God (i'm not Catholic, so I don't believe in confessing to preists) and ask his forgiveness. I don't believe its about being "good", but having faith.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Bauchelain the Evil, on May 8 2009, 11:03 AM, said:

Thelomen Toblerone, on May 6 2009, 03:59 PM, said:

I love papal infallibility, it makes so very, very little sense.

No more purgatory! So what, it was there before, the Pope says "no more" and it disappears? WTF happens to the people in it at the time?

Isnt original sin what Jesus died for to get rid of?

I don't wan't to be pedantic, expecially on doctrinal matters, but the Pope said that Limbus didn't exist not purgatory.
For Catholics Limbus is the place where unbaptized people went, Purgatory is where people who didn't deserve to go to Hell go to redeem their sins before they can enter Heaven.

Ah, that's it. Thanks for clearing it up.

@Eddie: Isn't it stated that if you are a sinner (as everyone is assumed to be) you can still get in if you repent and ask forgiveness? It's always been my understanding that even with faith, if you have unrepented sins you're screwed.

This post has been edited by Raymond Luxury Yacht: 14 May 2009 - 06:57 AM

[Eddie Dean]

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on May 14 2009, 01:55 AM, said:

Ah, that's it. Thanks for clearing it up.

@Eddie: Isn't it stated that if you are a sinner (as everyone is assumed to be) you can still get in if you repent and ask forgiveness? It's always been my understanding that even with faith, if you have unrepented sins you're screwed.

I'm pretty sure that belief comes from the Catholic side of Christianity (the whole confession thing to your priest). Its my belief (prodestant) that once your are "saved" (believing and asking for forgiveness), that your sins are covered. Now that doesn't mean I believe that you can do this and then get a "free pass" for the rest of your life; its got to be sincere. I also believe that you should repent for the sins you know about as you go along, but I don't think God would damn me to hell because I forgot to confess something; because by faith I"m saved.

This post has been edited by Eddie Dean: 14 May 2009 - 02:43 PM

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

I'm not talking about repenting to a priest, that's clearly a catholic idea. Even most protestants I think believe that you need to ask for forgiveness, but you can ask directly without a priest to help. I think the idea of being saved covering you for life is not a generic protestant belief, it's pretty specific to baptists. I was raised Lutheran, and don't remember anything about that, other than what my baptist friends told me.

[Icarium Kalam]

Skywalker, on Dec 14 2007, 08:33 AM, said:

Xander;234551 said:

Would the discovery of Alien Life in the Universe change your own beliefs? Would it hurt the Bible and other major books?

I'd answer that question with a very generalized, slightly lengthy rant... which now follows.

First, a very nitpicky semantics point: I think the 'discovery of alien life' wouldn't be the real crisis point - it is pretty much a foregone conclusion (based on the Drake equation, in whatever way you form it) that there IS intelligent life out there. The fun will begin if a) contact is possible between said aliens and us terrans and if someone actually bothers to establish contact.

I think there will be a lot of changes if there is contact. The biggest changes will be in the way we percieve authority... Governments will seem rather silly and some form of 'world government' or at least 'Earth diplomatic corps' will have to come up.

The time-emboldened concepts of property, territory, tribalism, nationalism, 'homo sapien sapien focussed' food and evolution pyramids... it will all be shaken to the core.

Science may or may not take a giant leap forward. There will be great upheaval in the way we percieve the universe - if these aliens have a working Grand Unified Theory or some such, or at least if they have valid refuting/ supporting evidence for our theories, there will be much fun. Biology, anthropology, sociology - most sciences concerned with the biosphere will have to be rewritten.

Astrology will die a much overdue death (one can hope)..

To speak of your original quesiton, I think whole new religions will spring up if there is enough cultural exchange - there will be vast periods of social trauma to deal with, because essentially the ETs will potentially bring with them an entire new set of philosophies, beliefs and practices.

Finally, conspiracy theorists and imagineers of every kind will have a field day...

Man, what a thrill just to imagine it... what I would give to live it.

sky_walker - SFF fan to the core

very well written!

[Icarium Kalam]

paladin, on Dec 14 2007, 10:43 AM, said:

wouldnt phase me.. but im a deist. we have a bit more open minds than some religious folks

I like this I'm going to look into it more.. never heard of it before. (deist)

[Eddie Dean]

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on May 14 2009, 06:21 PM, said:

I'm not talking about repenting to a priest, that's clearly a catholic idea. Even most protestants I think believe that you need to ask for forgiveness, but you can ask directly without a priest to help. I think the idea of being saved covering you for life is not a generic protestant belief, it's pretty specific to baptists. I was raised Lutheran, and don't remember anything about that, other than what my baptist friends told me.

Ok, I think I see what your saying now. I was raised in a Baptist church (till about 12). They believe in the whole "once saved always saved" thing. Thats not quite what I'm saying though. What I mean is that as a Christian, I believe I have can make mistakes and still go to heaven. I think if you get saved, then turn away (stop believing), well then thats another story. I just think that it is not necessary to repent for each individual sin (who can keep track of them all anyways.) I know it sounds generic, but I guess what I'm saying is God sees your heart, and if its with him, your ok. I don't know much about Lutheran teachings. Thats one thing that is frustrating about Christianity, is that so many different denomiations have their different take on everything. A lot of mine are based on what I was taught, but I really tried branching out and I believe a lot of what I do based on what I read for myself.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Eddie Dean, on May 14 2009, 08:15 PM, said:

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on May 14 2009, 06:21 PM, said:

I'm not talking about repenting to a priest, that's clearly a catholic idea. Even most protestants I think believe that you need to ask for forgiveness, but you can ask directly without a priest to help. I think the idea of being saved covering you for life is not a generic protestant belief, it's pretty specific to baptists. I was raised Lutheran, and don't remember anything about that, other than what my baptist friends told me.

Ok, I think I see what your saying now. I was raised in a Baptist church (till about 12). They believe in the whole "once saved always saved" thing. Thats not quite what I'm saying though. What I mean is that as a Christian, I believe I have can make mistakes and still go to heaven. I think if you get saved, then turn away (stop believing), well then thats another story. I just think that it is not necessary to repent for each individual sin (who can keep track of them all anyways.) I know it sounds generic, but I guess what I'm saying is God sees your heart, and if its with him, your ok. I don't know much about Lutheran teachings. Thats one thing that is frustrating about Christianity, is that so many different denomiations have their different take on everything. A lot of mine are based on what I was taught, but I really tried branching out and I believe a lot of what I do based on what I read for myself.

I thought you sounded baptist. The best way I ever had the idea of being saved explained to me was that if you're truly saved, then you won't commit any of the big sins in the first place, and the little ones can be forgiven. It's an interesting idea.

I've forgotten a lot of what I learned in Lutheran church growing up. I don't know that I've really ever even considered myself Lutheran, despite being confirmed and all that fun stuff, which was done for my parent's benefit. I go to church once a year, when I'm visiting my folks for Christmas (also for their benefit.) It's an odd religion. Very close to Catholicism in some ways, very very different in others.

[Adjutant Stormy~]

Icarium Kalam, on May 14 2009, 05:18 PM, said:

paladin, on Dec 14 2007, 10:43 AM, said:

wouldnt phase me.. but im a deist. we have a bit more open minds than some religious folks

I like this I'm going to look into it more.. never heard of it before. (deist)

Many founders of the United States were Deist. It's actually pretty laid back, religious dogma wise. A good read.

[Obdigore]

Adjutant Stormy, on Jun 15 2009, 04:13 PM, said:

Icarium Kalam, on May 14 2009, 05:18 PM, said:

paladin, on Dec 14 2007, 10:43 AM, said:

wouldnt phase me.. but im a deist. we have a bit more open minds than some religious folks

I like this I'm going to look into it more.. never heard of it before. (deist)

Many founders of the United States were Deist. It's actually pretty laid back, religious dogma wise. A good read.

NU-UH! THEY WERE CHRISTIANS AND THATS WHY WE SHOULD ALL BE CHRISTIANS AND ANY OTHER RELIGIONS SHOULD LEAVE THE US!!!

/endshortbutfrightinglyangryrant.

Seriously, I have no problems with any religion that isn't all for killing/hurting people in or not in that religion.

[Adjutant Stormy~]

Obdigore, on Jun 15 2009, 02:25 PM, said:

Seriously, I have no problems with any religion that isn't all for killing/hurting people in or not in that religion.

Raging atheist then?

[Thelomen Toblerone]

Surely Jain falls in that category? I dont know much about Jainism to be sure, I only one person who is a lapsed Jain, but even he goes out of his way not to even harm insects. So the really hardcore ones sweep the road and everything to make sure they dont crush ants or whatever. That's gotta be a religion free from killing/hurting.