[Cougar]

"Tavore had claimed her brothers bone and antler toy soldiers... she had arranged a miniature battle. only later wold Felisin learn that her nine-year old sister had been, in fact, recreating a set battle, culled from historical accounts of a century old clash between a Royal Untan army and the rebelling house of K'azz D'Avore. A battle that had seen the annihilation of the renegade noble family's forces and the subjugation of the D'Avore household. And that, taking on the role of duke Kenussen D'Avore, she was working through every possible sequence of tactics towards achieving a victory. Trapped by a series of unfortunate circumstances in a steep-sided valley, and hopelessly outnumbered, the unanimous consensus among military scholars was that such victory was impossible. Felisin never learned if her sister had succeeded where Kenussen D'Avore - reputedly a military genius - had failed." (HoC, p703-704")

For what it's worth the impression I have of Tavore is that she is very intelligent, a good (perhaps brilliant) and very studied tactician, who lacks charisma and communcation skills.

Her failure to articulate her plans, may indicate a lack of confidence in her plans, but in my opinion seems to stem from a lack of trust that plans will not fall into the wrong hands and a lack of confidence in others ability to understand the 'long game' she seems to be playing.

Perhaps her noble birth also leads her to dismiss the need to communicate her intentions to the lower orders

Felsin thinks:

"It seemed to Felisin that her sister had never been a child, had never known a playful moment. She had stepped into their brother's shadow and sought only to remain there, and when Ganoes had been sent off for schooling, Tavore underwent a subtle transformation. No longer in Ganoe's shadow, it was as if she had become his shadow, severed and haunting."

I suspect she has trouble relaxing around others and has severe trust issues.

[Aptorian]

ANd she was now the oldest heir in the house, probably taking on a lot responsibility that Paran should have been handling.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Aptorian;223462 said:

ANd she was now the oldest heir in the house, probably taking on a lot responsibility that Paran should have been handling.

She said as much when Ganoes visited the family home in GotM.

[Gem Windcaster]

I'm of the firm opinion that the reason Tavore doesn't communicate her plans is because she for some reason has chosen not to. She just has a different way of leading than most Malazan leaders. And there is a reason for it. Maybe found in the actual goal she is headed for, and the method with which she has to reach this goal. I dunno, I just get the feeling that she is doing it by choice, not because she wouldn't under other circumstances be able to be more open about her plans. After all, there could be tons of reasons why she's hiding things.

[Dancer+]

I think it's mainly the fact that she has chosen to hide her plans because of wanting to keep her plans secret, in addition to being scared of others either not believing her or criticising her, even though they do not see the scope of her projects as clearly as she herself can.

I'm a clear contributor, I'll have discussions with people but at the same time I often get the feeling that others wouldn't understand my plans and I would just like them to follow them. So I understand some of Tavore's reactions.

[Obdigore]

I would say Tavore is very intelligent.

I also have a thought as to why she does not mention her 'plans' but instead gives orders that make no sense at the time... every single time, the 14th has come out on top. The bridgeburners are starting to believe that they cannot lose, and that they are just part of a larger plan, and they only know their part.

The issue is this: Tavore knows a whole hell of a lot more than she lets on. She does not know everything, yet the 14th keeps getting 'help' from various unexpected sources. If her fists knew the 'plan', but not that the Eres'al is going to provide uber-wind-power, they would think her mad.

Tavore is somehow dancing with the gods, is she being used? Most definantally. Is she using the gods in return? Sure seems like it.

The MBotF started out with Ganoes. It tossed Fes the Younger in for a little bit, and now we see Tavore. Something I would like to see responses too: Who is going to be more important to 'Wu' at the end, Tavore or Ganoes?

[Dancer+]

Ganoes in all likelihood, being the MotD gives him more power than almost anyone.

The potential is for either of them to have more influence in the Malaz World. Bonehunters not Bridgeburners

I think we should create a unique name for the World of Malaz, one the characters might call it, like we call our planet earth although that has clear groundings to our language which also is present in the Malazan World. I know a lot of people who dislike the abbreviation of wu...
I think my previous idea will fall on deaf ears though:rolleyes:

[Obdigore]

Really?

I mean, how do you draw a 'kill the ascendant attacking me with a giant sword' card? Plus, as MotD he has to work inside the deck, trapping him in the same rules as the CG is trapped (although he appears to have cast the house off, so is he still trapped? Also, has he lost some power because he invested some of himself in his house of chains?) by, whereas Tavore is still free of those 'rules'.

Also, they seem to call their world 'burn' from what I understand... havn't actually heard them imply that the world is bannana shaped... yet.

[Aptorian]

It's been tried before, more than once. My favorite is still calling the planet Burn.

But then again, it's so easy and simple to call the world Wu.

EDIT: When they use Burn, they're always referring to the goddess. The world it self is never called anything. Which I think is a typical Erikson thing.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Obdigore;223493 said:

Really?

I mean, how do you draw a 'kill the ascendant attacking me with a giant sword' card? Plus, as MotD he has to work inside the deck, trapping him in the same rules as the CG is trapped (although he appears to have cast the house off, so is he still trapped? Also, has he lost some power because he invested some of himself in his house of chains?) by, whereas Tavore is still free of those 'rules'.

Also, they seem to call their world 'burn' from what I understand... havn't actually heard them imply that the world is bannana shaped... yet.

Have you forgotten the scene where Paran made a giant monster vanish by throwing a card at it or something like that?

[Obdigore]

Dolorous Menhir;223496 said:

Have you forgotten the scene where Paran made a giant monster vanish by throwing a card at it or something like that?

No, thats what I was thinking of, wasn't he fiddling with the card earlier, then when the scaled bear (which karsa scared off later in the book) hit the card it vanished.
edit: I just found the scene 400-401ukhardcover - He was 'scoring' the card with his knife as the fled so he had time to mark the card as he wanted it.

If rake is flying towards him, and he throws something at rake, rake is going to use his KE breathe to destroy the card, and then munch on Ganoes brains... unless he has more powers than previously shown.

[Shurque's biatch]

I wonder which god/ascendant/playa is messing with Tavore? It seems like all the Paran's have one in their pocket. Or maybe vicey versy.

It is very interesting (as has been noted elsewhere) that they seem to end up where ever the action is.

[Gem Windcaster]

I don't think Ganoes card can be destroyed that easily. And wouldn't Rake's breath vanish too? Besides, they might be able to do other stuff besides make things vanish.

[Mentalist]

Obdi, if things go south, Paran can always jump into some nice card... like the Wolf Warren, for example, since Rake canèt follow him into the card, lol....

[Aptorian]

kud13;223587 said:

Obdi, if things go south, Paran can always jump into some nice card... like the Wolf Warren, for example, since Rake canèt follow him into the card, lol....

Why can't Rake enter the Beasthold?

[cerveza_fiesta]

Gem Windcaster;223563 said:

I don't think Ganoes card can be destroyed that easily. And wouldn't Rake's breath vanish too? Besides, they might be able to do other stuff besides make things vanish.

for sure, SE left the abilities of the deckmaster pretty open to expansion. So far we have vanishing scalebears and knocking pannion buzzards out of the sky. Whos to say the cards can't make rake's pants fall down, embarassing him in front of all his andii, or slice the entire planet in two...too little info to make a call on the deckmaster's abilities just yet.

[Mentalist]

We know that Paran can go into "every card", as stipulated by MoI... I'm assuming that skill is unique to MotD, so that no other ascendant can simply walk into whatever warren they like and such....

[Aptorian]

kud13;223801 said:

We know that Paran can go into "every card", as stipulated by MoI... I'm assuming that skill is unique to MotD, so that no other ascendant can simply walk into whatever warren they like and such....

Not just any ascendant, like Gesler or Coltain, but a powerfull/magically gifted one can. If a mage like Quick can hop and dance through the entire deck, Rake can certainly get in where he wants.

[Blend]

Aptorian;223843 said:

Not just any ascendant, like Gesler or Coltain, but a powerfull/magically gifted one can. If a mage like Quick can hop and dance through the entire deck, Rake can certainly get in where he wants.

Rake would lack subtelty. He's known by many of the powerful ascendants that he may run into in the warrens, whereas Quick Ben is still crafty enough to not be known, or to hide his identity long enough, to skip out on a God before they can do anything. If Rake started jumping through warrens, he'd attract a LOT of attention, specially if he's carrying Dragnipur (i.e. the entrance to Mother Dark) with him. Power = convergence in the Malazan World.

[Aptorian]

Blend;223849 said:

Rake would lack subtelty. He's known by many of the powerful ascendants that he may run into in the warrens, whereas Quick Ben is still crafty enough to not be known, or to hide his identity long enough, to skip out on a God before they can do anything. If Rake started jumping through warrens, he'd attract a LOT of attention, specially if he's carrying Dragnipur (i.e. the entrance to Mother Dark) with him. Power = convergence in the Malazan World.

Yes, but this was ment as a theoretic discussion of whether Rake could follow Paran into a different warren. Rake can go where ever he wants.

Convergence doesn't really matter when you have the sword of ultimate pawnage :folken: