[cerveza_fiesta]

Ok, this is something that bugged me cause it was some pretty explicit foreshadowing, but I never really figured out what SE was driving at.

Remember the part where Bugg is getting ready to drop the gloves and save Tehol and whassername scholar lady from the patriotists, and runs into Ubala on his way out the door?

Right after it says if he'd only taken the time to explain the situation with Tehol to Ubala in terms Ubala could understand, things would have turned out very differently.

I never got what "things" SE was referring to here. Was it

A- Ubala could have saved tehol, allowing bugg to not have been trapped by the errant.
B- Ubala would have tried to save tehol, succeded but not had time to help with the soul-releasing ritual.
C- Ubala would have died / got captured, resulting in his non-helping with the ritual in B
D- Tehol would have died in the escape attempt and could not become emperor
E- None of the above

From what I could tell, everything turned out fine in the end, so can anybody clarify?

[The Tyrant Lizard]

I vaguely remember being bemused by this too. I think I settled for the fact that Bugg wouldn't have become imprisoned if he explained it properly.

[Gem Windcaster]

I think he meant the fact that Mael got trapped. And only that. Maybe Mael would have been more cautious if he had Ublala with him, I dunno. But I think he thought Ublala really could have helped Tehol escape. It's the only explanation.

[cerveza_fiesta]

I just took it to mean (at the time of reading) that things were going to turn out very poorly for tehol and whassername and Mael himselv...but then in the end they didn't turn out badly at all and Mael was able to free himself once Iccy's machine started firing up. I was just trying to figure why SE could have put that in there unless he was hinting at something major.

Could it be Mael's hinting at something beyond his circle of friends? I gotta think on this...

[Gem Windcaster]

Nah, I think you may be over analyzing. It was pretty horrendous for Mael to be trapped while he knew Tehol needed his help. I think he just meant that with Ublala knowing, Tehol wouldn't have been so close to dying. Ublala would have crashed the building, and taken Tehol out of there, pretty much. Or at least gotten help.

[Zanth13]

yeah with that quote you start getting a sense of forbodding.. then you see Mael get trapped and you figure all is lost for Mael (who i thought would never be freed) and Tehol (who i thought was going to die)

Thats my best guess, he just used it as a device to build suspence

[cerveza_fiesta]

@gem/xanth

very likely correct and the simplest assumption for sure. It was just such an impending doom that didn't happen. And it was said kindof after-the-factly as if Mael were reflecting on the happenings at a later time like he was dissatisfied with the way things turned out...Meh, SE's good but not immune to slight inconsistencies...and I'm definitely overanalyzing, it just Bugg-ed (snicker) me.

[Gem Windcaster]

Well, from what I remember of my own reaction, the trick worked like a charm. I was scared witless. And the quote can be subject to many interpretations...which is why it is such a good trick.

[Skywalker]

cerveza_fiesta;220732 said:

I just took it to mean (at the time of reading) that things were going to turn out very poorly for tehol and whassername and Mael himselv...

Yeah... I actually thought this would be a tragic second take on the situation at the end of MT (when Mael showed up a wee bit late, and Tehol got it good... of course Mael reversed any permanent damage). I honestly thought Tehol was a goner...

Maybe that was SE's original plan, but then he figured offing Trull and Tehol in the same book would really get the 'scary hordes' upset?

sky_walker - is not suggesting SE actually cares about the ranting and raving that goes on here

[Dancer+]

I thought at the start that the comment was linked to the Teblor army that Ublaba was meant to have recruited/contacted and that it was linked to that story arc.

I think it's more far reaching, we need to see what Ublaba does next to properly gauge that comment in my opinion.

If it's linked to the Tehol thing then it seems to have turned out well for the moment unless Tehol's promotion to emperor will screw things up for both Tehol and Bugg.

[Gem Windcaster]

Well, I guess we'll see if it's one of SE's by-the-way revelations that you don't get until reading a future book.

[cerveza_fiesta]

The Cult of Dessembrae;220772 said:

I thought at the start that the comment was linked to the Teblor army that Ublaba was meant to have recruited/contacted and that it was linked to that story arc.

I think it's more far reaching, we need to see what Ublaba does next to properly gauge that comment in my opinion.

If it's linked to the Tehol thing then it seems to have turned out well for the moment unless Tehol's promotion to emperor will screw things up for both Tehol and Bugg.

Thats what I was trying to get at with my multiple choice above. Maybe it had nothing to do with tehol at all, and more to do with Ubala. I thought he's foreshadowing some major s**t that ubala, the tarthenal and Karsa are going to rain down in the final books that might have been avoided if Ubala had gotten himself killed saving Tehol.

Reaching, but not unreasonable I guess...

[ShadowOwl]

"Maybe it had nothing to do with tehol at all, and more to do with Ubala."
I agree with this - if Ubala was taken out, Karsa would possibly be as well, since he may not have had enough power to 'visit' the CG, nor have an army in waiting being assembled. Didn't that FA, Calm, say something about Karsa changing the world and Calm being there to judge him? Don't have the books handy, but there have been several refs to Karsa being a pivot person.
(remember, Krul talking about how it only took Envy not showing at the chaining to start the events to take Dassem out, and how every thing fell from there...?) So SE seems to like tossing a pebble......

[cerveza_fiesta]

@shadow owl

You're right, calm did say that about karsa being important. I don't remember the line exactly either though.

What's the pebble you mean here...Mael's comment, Calm's comment or Karsa himself?

[Sinisdar Toste]

karsa himself i bet. maels quote was in relation to how ublala had to set up the ritual for hunch, and if mael had told ublala that tehol was gonna die, ublala would probably have gone to save him; karsa doesnt kill rhulad; bad things happen. mael knows that karsa is a pebble the size of a boulder, knew it from the first time he saw him

[ShadowOwl]

I sort of meant that SE likes to use one random act that can start a sequence of events that have huge consequences you'd not think could happen. So long story short, a pebble that starts a landslide that buries a city sort of thing...

[Where is Dassem Ultor?]

I was under the impression that SE was referring to the fact that, had Ublala been alerted to Tehol's fate, he might not have been able to help Karsa. Unless helping Karsa was a bad thing; guess we'll have to wait and see, after all.