[blackzoid]

Hi lads, first post here.
Just wondering on what you think of Silchas. His personality seems to have gotten "colder" in Reaper's Gale compared to Midnight Tides.
I had a thought about him however. I have read somewhere that SE wanted Anomander Rake to be a very ambigous character. Yes he was not a typical "Dark Lord" but that he was not to be considered a good guy either. In the interview I read (cannot remember where) Steve said that he found Anomander's popularity with fans surprising.

I wonder if the creation of Silchas was not a reaction to this. Steve wants a character that is powerful and of the Dark but who goes about goodness in a very questionable way? Silchas certainly seems to have no qualms about destroying Tiste Edur and does not bother avoiding them in the book. He also was willing to destroy all of Letheras. Not a guy you want on your case. Similar to Karsa in some regards.

[Dolorous Menhir]

People love Rake because he is coolness personified, but that doesn't mean they see him is as an unambiguously "good" character. Rake is quite willing to oppose "good" characters if it serves him, since his only true motivation is to safeguard the Tiste Andii race.

For example, when Kallor was busy agitating for Silverfox's murder during MoI, Rake was clearly willing to join him and take Silverfox out, even though she was under Brood's protection (in the end he did not).

If Rake was put in a situation where he had to kill fan favourites to aid the survival of the Tiste Andii, he would definitely do it.

[farengi]

Would like to see a reunion of the 2 ...

[Zanth13]

Yeah he was about 2 seconds from killing Paran in the first book.
Not to mention he had baruk behead the mages of Pale. He can deff. be cold at times. guess being half a million years old will do that to yah.(give or take a few hundred thousand years.)

but both brothers seem to have a sense of Morality/ethics of some sort.
and both seem to oppose the CG as of now.

I believe they will fight side by side at some point in the series....
if for not other reason then to oppose the forces of the CG, or what ever baddy shows up.

besides whats 300,000 years of not talking between brothers.

EDIT: I dont think he is an improved version.. I would much rather read about Andomander... Maybe he is to be Rakes Foil instead of Brood.... he does seem to have more of a temper then Rake...or at least more moody.

[Aptorian]

Seeing as SE had the entire series more or less planned out before he started on DG, I doubt he fashioned Ruin as an improved Rake. They are two different people all together.

I'm rereading Rg right now and it's obvious that there's great differences in personality.

Rake says to Killy that he's no point in betrayal because unlike even his own kin he knows what it brings. Ruin practically admits to having planned the same fait for Bloodeye that he was himself the victim of.

Rake can be cold and ruthless but ultimatly he's very humane. Ruin was going to destroy an entire civilization because he was frustrated,

Rake rejects his worship, it's said Ruin would have welcomed this role of god.

etc. etc.

I don't think that makes Ruin superior to Rake in anyway though. It would be funny if next time they meet Rake spits him on the sword and Ruin can use the next 400.000 years dragging a chain

[Ereko]

When Rake and Ruin meet up next, it should be an interesting conversation anyway.

"where were you brother when I was betrayed?"

With the comment Rake makes to Kili aswell about envying Ruin's new found isolation in the Azath, I'm sure there will be a much heated or pointed:folken: words between them.

gw

[Aptorian]

Grubb;208600 said:

When Rake and Ruin meet up next, it should be an interesting conversation anyway.

"where were you brother when I was betrayed?"

With the comment Rake makes to Kili aswell about envying Ruin's new found isolation in the Azath, I'm sure there will be a much heated or pointed:folken: words between them.

gw

Rake seems to doubt that. As Killy says, she doesn't understand Tiste Andiis, and besides Udinass I don't think anyone else in the stories so far has showed any understanding to their nature.

Ruin himself talks of the protection the time in the Azath was.

I think the reunion will go more in the lines of
Rake: Brother you have risen from your gravelike sleep.
Ruin: Indeed, alas it has done nothing for my complexion
Rake: Our brothers dead
Ruin: he died a long time ago
Rake: Mother hates us
Ruin: She was always a bitch
Rake: There's a new Mortal Sword out to kill me
Ruin: I know I took him with me *reveals Clip*
Rake: Oh, hi... *stabs clip with dragnipur*...
Ruin: wanna get a cup of tea?
Rake: Sure, let me introduce you to Lade Envy, I'm sure you'll like her.

[blackzoid]

Ok, "improved" is probably not the best word I was looking for.
Darker or less sympathetic would be better descriptions of him compared to Anomander.
SE has mapped out the entire 10 books? While thats probably true, I'm sure he leaves open room for improvisation based on whats happening in each specific novel. He may have improvised characters too, although I grant Silchas was probably not one, seeing as a good part of the theme of MT is about him.

[Crop]

I personaly think SR is a more likeable fellow than Rake. He didn't really want to fight Trull for example

[Ezgara (the insect)]

I prefer Rake over SR, because Rake is just very cool. Liking him does not necessarily mean that he has to be good or fight for a good cause (e.g. there's a lot of Star Wars fans that feel attracted to the dark side - don't get me started on some of my colleagues ), so I do not understand why SE is so surprised tbh. Also, one of the things I like about the Malazan books is that often you see both sides of the story/war/conflict and you can see that both sides have a point and a reason to fight and that sometimes there is no "good guys" and "bad guys". Everyone is just trying to do what he/she thinks is best for their cause.

I liked SR in MT, but not so much in Reaper's gale. I can understand however that being held captive for close to infinity must have left some marks. Even when you can live for millions of years, being held captive for the lion share must have affected his personality.

[Tarsonis]

Well, a character in the book (forgot which) does state their belief that Silchas Ruin is more Eleint than Tiste Andii than any other soletaken of their race pretty much. He seems very cold and calculating, thinking over vast periods of time and laying plans for as long.

Anomander seems capable of this as well, but he is "more human", he has more emotion, and he is being weighed down by duty which I think Silchas Ruin does not feel emotion about. He keeps his word, he likely sees duties but he does not get emotional about it very much. Indeed in that sense he is an "improved Rake".

I quite see Andarist, Anomander and Silchas as 3 degrees of acting on/feeling emotion, ranging from a lot to almost nothing. They all three try to shut it away most of the time though.

Also this is not to say Silchas Ruin is not ice through and through, so to speak. There's a passage where Kettle described how she was "poked" by the men that had captured her, and it kind of hangs in the air how Silchas Ruin disapproves of that quite a bit.. but never shows it, as usual.

[Clip]

Tarsonis;208642 said:

Well, a character in the book (forgot which) does state their belief that Silchas Ruin is more Eleint than Tiste Andii than any other soletaken of their race pretty much. He seems very cold and calculating, thinking over vast periods of time and laying plans for as long.

I remember that particular bit, although I forget which book. Whoever said went to say that the reason SR is like that is because he drank deeper from Tiam's blood than any of his kin, and so has more Draconean in him than his brothers. That's why he could wait that long trapped in an Azath house.

[Mentalist]

well, then if you listen to one of the sisters, in RG, Ruinn allowed himself to be stabbed in hte back, so that he's not around when two very angry Elder Gods come by to pound somebody's skull in...

And honestly, i don't quite comprehend, why ppl would think that "dark" means "evil"? In MBoTF, there's more of a Moorcock-like dichotomy Order-Chaos that Light-Dark, imho...

[Lisheo]

I personally prefer Silchas... I think hes essentially a more humane character than Rake, considering how he acted in MT. But I think when he left his barrow only to find the world in the state it was in, his Eleint blood took over... And so, he did what dragons seem to do when faced with a problem. Kill it. A lot lmao.

[Clip]

I think that both Rake and Ruin are characters that we can only see what other characters see. That is what draws us too them, we like to read about them so we can find out more about them, we want to know them. There aren't any other major characters like that.

The main difference between Rake and Ruin is that Ruin is a lot more Draconean than Rake, and so is colder than Rake and has a more self-involved view of the world. Rake just wants to keep his Andii alive, while Ruin appears to think that it is his place to clean up what he would consider "undesirables."

I prefer Rake because he is more distanced from the reader than Ruin, and perhaps more distanced from the other characters in the book, and that mystery draws me to him.

Ruin has a very Draconean view of things, and that sometimes is a narrow view. For example, when The Rope talks to those chained dragons in the realm of Shadow, all they want is their throne back, even after being chained there for unknown millenia. Ruin is similar in that he only thinks about one thing at a time and onces he's done that he'll go on to the next. When he was released he only focused on completing the mission the Azath gave him. After he finished that he decided to destroy Letheras, and was surprised when he couldn't finish that task. Obviously he is not used to having to run.

Since we know next to nothing about Rake we cannot see his ultimate intentions and so there is an 'aura' of mystery around him that, to me at least, makes him the most interesting character in the series.

[Gem Windcaster]

Silchas annoys me. He's too arrogant for my taste. Rake is more level headed. And definitely cooler. It requires more courage not to go kill everything that you think is dangerous.

[Sinisdar Toste]

when draconus forged dragnipur he must have known he was chaining kurald galain inside of it? why did he do this and did rake, because he is of kurald galain, take the sword from him and kill him to somehow break it and release kurald galain. and he cant do it so hes been looking for the biggest baddest convergences for 400 000 years to see if anyone can. if anyone can be seen to be singleminded its the tiste(and t'lan imass). and rake is one of the most powerful of them all.

if this has been thought of tell me cuz i think im kinda on to something

[jonny_anonymous]

Rake and Ruin are the twin aspects of Elric of Melnibone.

On one hand you have the morose Lord of a fallen Dark Empire with a powerful soul-sucking sword.

And on the other you have a cold hearted a cruel outcast albino who ends up with uh an interesting weapon.

Both do good in a very anti-hero\anti-villain way and if you put them together you pretty much get Elric the Last Emperor of Melnibone.

[worry]

The last emperor?! Thanks for the spoiler!

[jonny_anonymous]

worry, on 06 June 2015 - 08:13 PM, said:

The last emperor?! Thanks for the spoiler!

Lol oh come on it's in the title of half his books!