[Abyss]

Somethings occured to me...

Humans who spend time in Azath Houses get benefits, health, longer life, possibly other things... What happens to a near-immortal Jaghut spending quality time therein? Especially one who was powerful enough to freeze death on a continent and face down two elder gods, back before he took up residence?


Other thought: Apparently Gothos participated in at least one Chaining, along with Gethol and Hood. He made peace with Imass and gave the Scabby finnest to Onrack's son in the Refugim to hang on to, which apprently led to much of what followed in the nature of the Refugim. He helped Fiddler and co in DG (on the other hand, he was ready to let the Azath have Icarium, also in DG).

Point being, is Gothos one of the major players behind the scenes of the series, or perhaps he only used to be? Or is there something sinister behind his actions (mua ha ha ha ha ahem cough excuse me sorry)...?


- Abyss, needs a popsicle now.

[Mael]

Abyss;205404 said:

Somethings occured to me...

Humans who spend time in Azath Houses get benefits, health, longer life, possibly other things... What happens to a near-immortal Jaghut spending quality time therein? Especially one who was powerful enough to freeze death on a continent and face down two elder gods, back before he took up residence?


Other thought: Apparently Gothos participated in at least one Chaining, along with Gethol and Hood. He made peace with Imass and gave the Scabby finnest to Onrack's son in the Refugim to hang on to, which apprently led to much of what followed in the nature of the Refugim. He helped Fiddler and co in DG (on the other hand, he was ready to let the Azath have Icarium, also in DG).

Point being, is Gothos one of the major players behind the scenes of the series, or perhaps he only used to be? Or is there something sinister behind his actions (mua ha ha ha ha ahem cough excuse me sorry)...?


- Abyss, needs a popsicle now.

I stand by my assertion that Gothos attended the chaining AS hood. We know hood was the Jaghut King but we don't yet have a name for that king. That and the fool wrote a "multivolumed suicide note without and ending"

[Dolorous Menhir]

Mael;205409 said:

I stand by my assertion that Gothos attended the chaining AS hood. We know hood was the Jaghut King but we don't yet have a name for that king. That and the fool wrote a "multivolumed suicide note without and ending"

What?

Hood and Gothos are two distinct people.

[Dark Mac]

Abyss;205404 said:

Somethings occured to me...

Humans who spend time in Azath Houses get benefits, health, longer life, possibly other things... What happens to a near-immortal Jaghut spending quality time therein? Especially one who was powerful enough to freeze death on a continent and face down two elder gods, back before he took up residence?

Those benefits basically make them more like near-immortal Jaghut. I doubt ascendants get any particular benefits from the Azath.

[bubba]

I the really powerful that reside in the houses stay there because they are afraid what will happen if they step out on to the lawn......GULP!!!!

[Coldsnap]

Ya, I was under the impression that Hood, who was also the jaghut on the throne of ice, was a separate entity from Gothos. But I do wonder how much he can still affect the world outside the Azath. You know, as much as he knew prior to entering the Azath, and it does seem near omnipotence, I bet he learned unimaginable amounts more from the Azath itself during his time there. If he ever returns, I see his head simply exploding or imploding due to sheer amounts of knowledge.

[Fist Gamet]

Would it not depend upon what the Azath wants? I got the impression that the Azath is more than capable of deciding what is in ITS best interest and that if it were to bestow any gifts upon occupants it would do so by choice and design.

Whilst it might seem as though Gothos has done a lot of significant things in his time, spread over the hundreds of thousands of years he has existed it amounts to a whole lot less, maybe.

[Lisheo]

Yeah, the Azath are intelligent entities. Maybe they have decided to take the leash of Gothos.
To be fair, I originally considered him a candidate for Hood, but Hood doesnt really have a body anymore, whereas Gothos hangs out on the mortal plane.

[dktorode]

Abyss;205404 said:

Somethings occured to me...
What happens to a near-immortal Jaghut spending quality time therein? Especially one who was powerful enough to freeze death on a continent and face down two elder gods, back before he took up residence?

What makes you think Gothos froze death?
I got the impression that the "king" they saw which was hood (most probably) seemed to have simply left his body (or something such).
If Gothos did do it how did you come to that conclusion since that would be quite something if he did?

[Abyss]

Gothos didn't free 'Death' as in 'Hood', he froze death as in due to his ritual freezing the massacre of the Andii post Scabby ambush of Ruin, souls didn't pass on if they died on Leth.

- Abyss, hey! Deathsicle!!!

[Kurt Montandon]

The primary argument against Gothos being Hood is that Gethol would probably have noticed. Thus, his comments in MoI would have reflected that, rather than simply hinting that he knew that Hood was Jaghut.

Not to mention that Gothos seems to have sought residence in an Azath House for the purpose of getting away from being involved in anything. I doubt he did it because he's afraid of the Imass ...

[Abyss]

Actually, Gethol's comment re: 'the twisted mirror of Hood's face' in MoI might support this.

That said, iirc, elsewhere they are identified as both having been at the same Chaining at the same time. Obviously there are tricky ways around this, but fundamentally, it seems unlikely Hood and Gothos are the same person.

Relatedly, I think he took refuge in the Azath specifically to stay out of the conflict with the Imass. A handy side effect was that it probably took him out of some other conflicts amongst gods/ascendents/jaghut.

- Abyss, wonders if Azath provide towel service.

[Hoods Balls]

I can assure you that Gothos is not me, he's too ugly for that

[Binder of Demons]

I don't think we've really been given a good idea of just how powerful Gothos is (I don't know how taxing the ritual he did in Letheras was). But I do find it instructive that when Erikson was asked in a recent interview what Ascendant he would like to have as his shaved knuckle in the hole, he went for Gothos?

My impression of Gothos is that he had a very good idea of what was going to happen in the world and chose to take the long view and step aside by entering the Azath House. But I think he is waiting for the right time to return.

And I'm curious to see what he'd do if someone managed to piss him off when he does return.

[Lisheo]

I think I have an answer to that: "Ice. The Jaghut answer to everything."

Theyre lacking imagination, really, the Jaghut...

[tiam]

Binder of Demons;205643 said:

I don't think we've really been given a good idea of just how powerful Gothos is (I don't know how taxing the ritual he did in Letheras was). But I do find it instructive that when Erikson was asked in a recent interview what Ascendant he would like to have as his shaved knuckle in the hole, he went for Gothos?

My impression of Gothos is that he had a very good idea of what was going to happen in the world and chose to take the long view and step aside by entering the Azath House. But I think he is waiting for the right time to return.

And I'm curious to see what he'd do if someone managed to piss him off when he does return.

Id say the ritual in Letheras taxed him enough that he had to perform a ritual to get it going. But that doesnt really give us indication. Id say it was difficult and reasonably taxing but not too much trouble

[Abyss]

Gothos covered most of a continent in ice. He basically paved over an Eudr army, which, if you use the stats from later days, was about 2/3 mages to one extent or another. Death, as in the concept of souls moving away once the body dies, STOPPED WORKING.

Faced with two elder gods who just skull punched a frikkin dragon/child of Mommy D to death, he scams them on a deal, and they don't just kill him and take what they want, fairness aside (and Kila turned on Rake, so don't suggest she, at least, has some notion of honour).

He may not be indicative of the 'typical' jaghut power level, but let's call it like it is. Gothos was EXTREMELY powerful, even before he decided to spend a few millenia redecorating an Azath house.

- Abyss, thinks pink curtains would look just divine on those portals between worlds, dah-ling...

[Kage-za]

The Gothos/Azath connection is the key. I think Gothos was instrumental in brokering the deal with Ruin to let him out of the Azath as it was dying. Otherwise, why else would Ruin keep his end of the bargain to make a new house instead of taking his revenge on Scabby?

It's very possible that Gothos got the finnest, left it with the Imass (who should be his mortal enemy), entered an Azath house, and then used the Azath to obtain a champion who could make a new house at an important time thousands of years later.

Now with ST having a big stake in the Azath houses, Iccy disappearing into the machine, and the ritual broken, I think it is highly likely we will see Gothos playing a major role in at least one of the last three books.

Wouldn't it be interesting if, perhaps because of the Azath connection, Gothos was ST's shaved knuckle?

[Dolorous Menhir]

Kage-za;205794 said:

The Gothos/Azath connection is the key. I think Gothos was instrumental in brokering the deal with Ruin to let him out of the Azath as it was dying. Otherwise, why else would Ruin keep his end of the bargain to make a new house instead of taking his revenge on Scabby?

Because he's a Tiste Andii of his word?

Quote

It's very possible that Gothos got the finnest, left it with the Imass (who should be his mortal enemy), entered an Azath house, and then used the Azath to obtain a champion who could make a new house at an important time thousands of years later.

I think your chain of events is a bit fishy here. Gothos left the finnest with an Imass that was the son of Kilava - who seems to have been the only Imass to deny the Ritual and actively help Jaghut. So the race may have been Gothos's enemy, but those Imass weren't. Also, Ruin was put in an Azath during the MT prologue, an event which (a) occurred before Gothos got the Finnest, ( Gothos had no influence over, he just observed it from afar and © happened an unknown but surely significant length of time before Gothos himself entered an Azath.

So I think it's a real stretch to finger Gothos as the mastermind behind this.

[Abyss]

If Gothos had been on the scene, the Leth Azath, which was dying, and apparently isolated from the rest of the world's Azath by Gothos' ritual in the first place, would not have needed Kettle or Ruin to begin with. Gothos was already serving the Azath by the time the events with the Azath dying hit.


- Abyss, also notes Gothos would have been spring cleaning at the time.