[Skinner]

Sorry to double post, but a few more:

Rodney So'oialo (Samoan - moved to NZ ???)
Sione Lauaki (born Tonga - schooled in NZ as young boy)
Tialata (born NZ, but Samoan descent from parents)
Muiliana (born in Samoa, moved to NZ aged 2)
Ma'a Nonu (born in NZ, but family is Samoan)
Chris Masoe (born in Samoa, moved to NZ ???)
Mealamu (born NZ)
Isaia Toeava (born Samoa, moved to NZ ???)

So my point is that NZ will generally not "poach" an established overseas player.

But they will develop a young player regardless of their nationality for the ABs.

[Binder of Demons]

I think it's a bit rich for people to point to the finger at New Zealand for having some overseas players. Just look at the squads of many of the countries at the world cup. Australia have a few pacific islanders too, and you get non-natives playing for Ireland (not well enough it must be said), Scotland too I think, England have some as well. Some of the newer rugby nations have no choice but to field overseas players to compete more effectively.

I agrre with Skinner, most of the Pacific Islanders in New Zealand rugby have been there for years, and only a tiny proportion go on to make the all blacks. Some come over with their families at a young age, so that's hardly poaching. And others get a chance to come over on rugby scholarships, which gives them a good education, and the chance ot get high calibre coaching, and the prospect of a professional rugby career. If some of them choose to represent New Zealand after being given that opportunity, then good luck to them.

In an ideal world, it would be great if all those players went home and played for their countries of birth. One thing I was wondering was whether it would be possible to have a Pacific Islands team playing in the Super14, based in the North Island of New Zealand? Maybe that could happen the next time expansion or possible contraction of the Super14 is considered?

As for the World Cup itself, I'd like to see New Zealand win the thing, by beating Argentina in a close final.

[caladanbrood]

Saying that most of the team are actually New Zealanders as a good thing in itself is my point. The way I see it, you should play for your country, not someone elses just because it's better.

And of course, in Lomu, Umaga, Rokocoko and Sivivatu you have four of the most influencial players in world rugby at their peaks, so it's hardly something you can write off;)

[Skinner]

Well the majority of the ABs are born in NZ afterall. So I see no problem there.

But also if you have emigrated to another country when you were a wee lad, grow up there, get educated there and develop most of your rugby skills there, surely that counts too!

By that stage most of their teenage to adult life has been in NZ for these players. So it's only natural that they would consider themselves to be kiwis. I'm sure the financial incentives as a pro player are just an added bonus!

For another example, how about Kevin Pieterson for England's cricket team? Or even going back further Allan Lamb and Graeme Hick? All African citizens who did not develop their skills in England, but were happy enough to ply their trade for another country. Where is the uproar there for national sport?

Mike Catt?

If you were cynical you can argue that they are just following their self interests and taking advantage of whatever they can. Fair enough to them.

It happens everywhere, but often NZ are accused of being the worst "poachers" because of their success. But this is the long term results of developing grass roots players regardless of their country of birth.

And based on results, I'd say that this is a very good model for creating a good rugby team.

[caladanbrood]

Skinner;212161 said:

And based on results, I'd say that this is a very good model for creating a good rugby team.

Absolutely:D

[Tsundoku]

That was f**king disgusting. Australia forgot how to play the game.

England did NOT win that - Australia handed it to them, literally, in a marvellous display of how NOT to play possession rugby. And the only time our forwards bothered to turn up was to f**k up a scrum.

My only hope now is that if there is any justice in this world the All Blacks will smash France and then go on to humiliate England. After that I really don't care.

Cheers,

La Sombra, not happy Jan

[Grumble]

Michael Lynagh, Kylie Minogue, Rolf Harris, Skippy !! Your boys took a hell of a beating !!!!!

Sent packing by an average England team, oh dear. No scrum, no desire, no heart. Once again the Australian world beaters given a lesson oh life is sweet.

[Mort]

What a disappointing performance by the Aussies.
Mind you, at least we crossed the line... you know, to score a try; and didn't have to rely on Johnny W to kick us into the semis.

But enough said... NZ to destroy France and England before a NZ - SA final where SA wins.

[Sir Thursday]

England were by far the better team - their pack completely destroyed the Australians, and for periods they looked utterly dominant. No tries, but they came out and tried to score them, and sometimes actually looked like they might just manage it for a change. Wilkinson didn't even have his kicking boots on today, but he did just enough.

I'm eagerly anticipating the NZ - France match tonight...just hope the right French team turns up...

Sir Thursday

[Rich the Great]

Ouch, you reckon Sheridan and co. take the Aussie pack out in France to buy them something nice to wear on the plane home? Should be a load of little girls' dresses judging by the way their scrum was destroyed.

[Grumble]

OMFG!!! ..... Northern Hemisphere 2 Southern Hemisphere 0 ..... what's next ?

scotland, Scotland, SCOTLAND !!! ..... nah probably not but I better check that lottery ticket I bought tonight

[caladanbrood]

holy crap. I am utterly speechless. How did the aussies let themselves get bullied like that?

As for the all blacks, it's a well established fact that they always choke in big tournaments, it was just a question of when.


Utterly screwed my fantasy team now though!

[Centzon Totochtin]

Dear god! This means either France or England will be in the final! Did not see that coming. Maybe we'll see Fiji/France in the final... that would be interested and unexpected!

Can I claim the victory if England win since I am half English?

[Rich the Great]

Centzon Totochtin;212553 said:

Can I claim the victory if England win since I am half English?

We're still claiming the win after 4 long years, so I think we can let you celebrate as a winner this once. In the unlikely case of England actually winning the whole thing, as long as the Boks don't, I'll be happy.

[Tsundoku]

It's official: I am either still asleep and experiencing a horrible nightmare or I have somehow crossed into some sort of (thoroughly undeserved) parallel hell dimension.

I'm now going for the winner of Scotland/Argentina, because I'll die before I back the Frogs or the Poms, and there's no way I'll back the Yarpies either, even if they are fellow Southern Hemispherians.
Unless of course this weekend of anomalies includes Fiji beating the Saffers. That would make things interesting indeed ...

@Rich
I guess you can be the fashion consultant.

EDIT:
Holy shit! I just saw the clip of that last French try - how the f**K did all 3 officials miss a pass that went about 4+ metres forward??? If even I noticed it at at normal speed, I suggest there are 3 other men out there who desperately need their vision corrected.

Cheers,

La Sombra, Viva Argentina! Scotland Forever! Go Fiji!

[Skinner]

my worst nightmares are realised once again!

Another 4 years of misery waiting for the ABs (sigh).

The NZ nation will be in disbelief, mourning, then in house cleaning mood for the coaching staff. Goodbye Mr Henry.

Well, the only positive is that the ABs are "virtually" unbeatable at home. So for the 2011 world cup we should have a great a chance. But then we seem to say that every time!!

[Cold Iron]

It was only a matter of time for us, you can't epect to win big games with a rubbish tight 5 and a rubbish kickers. The only tight 5er in the squad worth his salt is nathan sharp, the rest are pathetic. We need a coaching overhall too, goddamn australian sports hanging on to over the hill players, the selectors need to be sacked. What the hell was drew mitchell doing on the bench for an hour?!

goddamnit.

go argentina?

goddamnit

[Hume]

Yeh, Im so Going for a Sprinbok Win now.
If not then, Argentina then Scotland and Fiji.

I'd be brought to tears if France or England somehow managed to win this.

[dktorode]

Needless to say im more than shocked as to the results on Saturday, i think the Aussies and N.Z got a bit complacent because of their easy first round matches and got stuck in sort of 'cruise control'!

They havent had to really fight it out yet in this tournament as apposed to the French and the English. The French had a tough first round with a real eye opener early on with the Argie loss that sparked a marvelous run thereafter, the English in turn got their eye opener against the Saffers. These two sides have tasted defeat and have played some real tough games coming into the quarter finals.

I think as a result of their tough first round matches, there combinations were allot better sorted out than what the NZ and Ausies were...who breezed through the openning rounds with no one substantial to play against to get there combos right. They thought (esp. Australia) that it would be an easy win and that they're playing well. It just shows how "well" they've actually been playing doesnt it?

Yesterdays results went just as i thought it would with South Africa and the Argies winning there respective matches.

South Africa struggled against he Fijians but that was to be expected since the Fijians are riding a crazy high at the moment, i commend them for playing so well and with loads of guts im sure if they were playing against the likes of say England they might have actually beaten them .

[Tsundoku]

I propose:
Tries - 5 points
Conversions - 2 (or maybe even 3) points
Field goals - 2 points
Penalties - 2 points

If you're going to f**k around with the rules to (supposedly) make the game better and more watchable, then why not overhaul a scoring system that still rewards a game that is not enjoyable for spectators?

I think the scrum needs work as well. I sat and watched them try to form 7 scrums at one point, it's a goddamn joke. Plus the massive disparity between northern and southern hemisphere referees. One bunch love the game, the other bunch love using the whistle and getting screen time. I'll leave you to figure out which is which.

EDIT:
One great advantage of having try+con = 8 and other kicks be worth 2 is that the ref features less in the final scoreline. Penalties decide less matches. Drop goals aren't worth going for, so field position becomes more for scoring tries.

Cheers,

La Sombra, wonders who can defend the indefensible?