[Sindriss]

wow, didnt see this one coming. Really wellwritten and i actually got really sad that he died. Only me who had it this way ?

Also, do you think he would revive again ?

[blewin]

not a chance. I think he's gone for sure. After all, he's already died once.
I was so happy to see him back, this character just talks and thinks so differently from others. The way he keeps saying this and then 'oh, but maybe not'. Absolutely fantastic, but man... doesn't Toc have all the bad luck?!

though some people say the emotional impact isn't as much because Toc's last appearance is in book 4, I myself was very moved by his scene. I think it just says how masterful SE is in his depiction of the T'lan Imass's tragedy and Toc's character.

now what comes afterwards is interesting.. about Toc's father.

[Murrin]

blewin;189116 said:

not a chance. I think he's gone for sure. After all, he's already died once.

I'm not so sure about that. A point as made about his eye still being missing--the implication being that the wolves have taken it. In other cases where a god holds a piece of someone's soul--Heboric's hands, for example--the idea is that they can collect the rest of the soul when that person dies. So if Togg has Toc the Younger's eye, he may be able to retrieve or at least influence Toc's soul even though it has entered Hood's realm. Hence Hood's irritation--he saw the potential for them once again getting in the way of his claim on Toc.

[caladanbrood]

It's possible all the Grey Swords might come back, I suppose, since the wolves took their hearts.

I hope they don't though, it's getting rather predictable:(

[blewin]

caladanbrood;189167 said:

I hope they don't though, it's getting rather predictable:(

I think that's what convinces me.

the part about the eye might, yes, imply something, but it might just be a gesture of what Toc once was (member of the Gray Swords). We probably won't see what having possession of the eye could do as a consequence in this series, since the trend of resurrection is getting too predictable and convenient.

one major thing SE does best is keep his readers off-balance.

If we all reckon a character's gonna revive, there's a huge chance that he won't.

[airheadgreg]

I knew something big would happen with Toc, SE followed the Lethrii for so long you began to like them and wonder who would loose the final battle, and half way through that battle i was wondering if Toc would run and if no he would die killing a lot of peole. It was no big surprise really for me.

With the eye, i think SE will have something like Toc can't completely go until the eye is returned and some trading happens between the gods so there are debts to be repaid. I think we may also get a seen of Toc dead talking within Hoods realm, like Hedge did, but not coming alive in the end...

-Greg

[Onrack the breakable]

I think Toc the younger is the LEAST likely person to be permanently dead. Although hood claims he has a right to Tocs soul because some promise his father made, the wolves have first right due to it being his own choice not his parents. Also the wolves are more elder than the elder gods and if they don't hand toc over nicely, I think they may just tear Hood to shreds and take over dominion of death as well. But alot of what was going on seemed to be all sorts of feints and misdirection so maybe the Wolves and Hood are allies working mutually. Who knows?

But I don't think we can even count Toc as one of the revives if he comes back or not, because his gods have the power to revive him whether Hood wants it or not.

[tiam]

Toc has died in every book so far and come back so why not this time? Hes atleast consistent.

GOTM- 'Died' in thay warren that hairlock put him in
MOI- Did actually die but luckily Paran sneezed on Anaster or something like that and Toc had his body.
RG- Actually died again with no Anaster sneeze scenario to come back from but luckily given another escape clause with the eye thing.

It seems more than probable hell be back and not for any real plot thread. I just think Erikson likes writing about a reluctant soldier who can technically be anywhere in the next book. Would not at all be surprised to see him appaer in TTH

[doolally2au]

caladanbrood;189167 said:

It's possible all the Grey Swords might come back, I suppose, since the wolves took their hearts.

On the subject of servants of the Togg and Fanderay - wasn't there some other fleet (who appeared briefly in tBH) with another army (navy?) belonging to the wolf gods with a different mortal sword etc. (Or was this just a dream inspired by eating chocolate mousse too late at night???). If this is so, I don't think the Grey Swords will be back, and maybe that is the fight they should have joined.

[tiam]

Are you talking about the Perish?

[PannionDude]

I think we won't see any more of Toc the Younger. He had a heroic demise this time, a good close to his story and an emotional impact on Tool.

[tiam]

he also has another get out death free card. hell be back in some form you mark my words

[Thelomen Toblerone]

Like Broody says it'll be a shame if he revives again. It's sort of getting a bit ludicrous now, the amount he's been through in the books only to keep surviving/coming back. His soul's shifted around more often than a bum in a lively game of musical chairs.

Maybe QB will add it to his collection?

[Sindriss]

Well, although perhaps predictable i still enjoy him so i would want him back for those selfish reasons. To be honest,this scene made me more sad than when Trull died.

[Skywalker]

While it'll be boring if he gets a second second wind I was really sad to see him in RG.

Would've been nice to have him, Tool, and Gruntle do some serious male bonding in TTH. I mean the poor guy's been through enough - got blinded, chucked into Chaos, had to suckle on a KCCM matron, got killed, put into a cannibal body, got tied up chest deep in women's blood and shit... got killed. Didn't even cut a break in the afterlife - just the one eye.

Poor guy! If the Malazan series were the Bible, this guy'd be Job

[Danyah]

tiam;190296 said:

he also has another get out death free card. hell be back in some form you mark my words

While passing by the Empty Throne collecting 4000 dollar?

[Dolorous Menhir]

Fanderay;190203 said:

On the subject of servants of the Togg and Fanderay - wasn't there some other fleet (who appeared briefly in tBH) with another army (navy?) belonging to the wolf gods with a different mortal sword etc. (Or was this just a dream inspired by eating chocolate mousse too late at night???). If this is so, I don't think the Grey Swords will be back, and maybe that is the fight they should have joined.

The Perish? They're still with Tavore's fleet in RG, remember?

Thelomen Toblerone;190306 said:

Like Broody says it'll be a shame if he revives again. It's sort of getting a bit ludicrous now, the amount he's been through in the books only to keep surviving/coming back. His soul's shifted around more often than a bum in a lively game of musical chairs.

Maybe QB will add it to his collection?

SE just has to contrive a situation with a soulless & faceless (but living) body for Toc to pop back to and voila! If it worked with Anaster, it can work for him.

More likely, he's a member of High House Death now. I could accept him coming back as an undead, like the Soldier and Baudin.

[Danyah]

The Perish are the Grey Helms.
And the wolves still have the eye... THE EYE!

[Dark Mac]

Didn't the Adjunct send the Perish on a mission of their own?

[blewin]

sky_walker;190338 said:

While it'll be boring if he gets a second second wind I was really sad to see him in RG.

Would've been nice to have him, Tool, and Gruntle do some serious male bonding in TTH. I mean the poor guy's been through enough - got blinded, chucked into Chaos, had to suckle on a KCCM matron, got killed, put into a cannibal body, got tied up chest deep in women's blood and shit... got killed. Didn't even cut a break in the afterlife - just the one eye.

Poor guy! If the Malazan series were the Bible, this guy'd be Job

yeah, exactly. But things never last in the Malazan world, sadly, a parallel to our own.

but man.... Toc is one of my favourite. The way he speaks and reacts is so distinctive from others. Toc's story is a tragedy because, exactly as you said, he's gone through so much only to die young, on his own, with no friends around.