[phart]

Poor man itkovian, or Deus ex machina or .....

Don't get me wrong Erikson (my favourite author of the genre by quite a bit) wrote the pieces wonderfully really immotive. However he does seem to have a penchant for introducing asperger/savant/autistic type magical geniuses who save the day with Beak and Sinn in the 14th.

i'm just glad Beak wasn't interested in using combat candles too much, otherwise everyone would have got killed.

But more interestingly whats happened to the marines?it wpould appear fiddler looks like Mathew Kelly in negative.

[Illuyankas]

Well, everyone who wasn't an almost-ascendant now has perfect armour and white hair, and Gesler - and Stormy, presumably - have golden hair now, I assume adding more ascendancy material to everyone involved, but I'm surprised more people didn't mention this in the last part of the book. I mean, everyone's now white-haired, and no-one noticed?

[polishgenius]

I noticed that actually. There's the occasional mention - I think Hedge points it out - but that's about it.

[Morgoth]

they didn't really have time.. Midst of battle and all that

[theO]

Well i liked the character and that scene was really well written (liked the way Fid invited the tiste edur into the bubble). But in all fairness i think he was a huge Deus ex machina - an amazingly powerful character who was never previously mentioned intorduced with the sole purpose of getting the Bonehunters iut of a rather sticky situation.

[Ashamanic2]

Possibly.
I'd need to analyse the plot a bit more, but to what extent was the Letheri magical attack unavoidable? Without beak, they wouldn't have survived, but, without beak, would it even have been written that way?
Which is to say, did SE get to that point and find he'd written himself into a corner, or, did he want to suggest there were other people with high power levels that were undiscovered and felt this a good way to show it

[Morgoth]

I'd think the later rather than the former.. With the high death count of high mages, it would only be natural that the powerfull mages left are the ones who've through one mean or the other remain undetected.

[phart]

Ashamanic2;182521 said:

Possibly.
I'd need to analyse the plot a bit more, but to what extent was the Letheri magical attack unavoidable? Without beak, they wouldn't have survived, but, without beak, would it even have been written that way?
Which is to say, did SE get to that point and find he'd written himself into a corner, or, did he want to suggest there were other people with high power levels that were undiscovered and felt this a good way to show it

He's a plot device a magnificiently written, immotive and tragically unfortunate character but still a plot device.

It is Deus ex Machina i also missed the convergence that normally happen when so much power is unvieled.

[phart]

Morgoth;182523 said:

I'd think the later rather than the former.. With the high death count of high mages, it would only be natural that the powerfull mages left are the ones who've through one mean or the other remain undetected.

Coupled to the fact the guy has obviously some sort of post traumatic stress disorder as well, people are more likely to overlook someone PERCEIVED as slow/stupid or whatever.

Though Bottle being revealed done the trick for showing us hidden powerhouses, again someone who just happened to have a super powerful being about to help when they met Powerful magic.

I see no need for it to be repeated in the next book, and to be fair i was really interested on how they were going to stop holds, i thought a well thought out plan would be implemented to counter it, ie not inviting a big battle or letting them pick the battlefield, or some cunning plan.

A tragic simple scarred solider who happened to have access to every warren with amazing efficacy isn't the clever tactics i was expecting, so i guess in that regard i was outwitted

I was reading it and when reading about Beak i was like oh here's another Bottle and as his powers became more obvious it was a simple leap of logic to think he would be using it for something, a bit like Clip fighting Trull as soon as Clip was derisory of the spear, i'm sure everyone thought well Trull going to show him how a spear should be used.

I know i'm moaning a bit, i really really did enjoy the book, just a few things were a bit out of character for me and for someone who reads the books multiple times and holds Erikson up as THE premier fantasy author of the moment it just makes me a little sad.

The good thing is Erikson is good enough to have a great solution for this in the next book which will put me right in my place.

[Onrack the breakable]

Morgoth;182523 said:

I'd think the later rather than the former.. With the high death count of high mages, it would only be natural that the powerfull mages left are the ones who've through one mean or the other remain undetected.

I sort of agree there. It may have been just a way to write himself out of the corner although I would've preferred he had consulted with a scientist -engineer/physicists or a military expert (say a Captain - General who led men into battle in the combat arms) to devise some brilliant tactic or military teamwork (perhaps involving sacrifice of a "decoy" unit). Having it all hinge on just one person isn't totally far fetched but usually in combat the results are either the sum of the soldiers, less than the sum, or where everything clicks where the army is so much more than just the sum of the individual soldiers.

Like a force of nature, the army has their best plan (but still consider new contingencies moment by moment) and then they execute the plans, taking casualties without flinching and rolling on like something unstoppable by even a god. I would have prefered something like that, or some brilliant tactic to some guy out of nowhere suddenly showing godlike powers saving the day, then dieing tragically so all those untidy questions don't have to be answered.

Anyway, thinking of tactics (its been awhile since I was a soljur) it seems more plausible to have something like the idea of concentration of force. Consider if there are 2 armies and one is twice as big but it is in a column formation (single file, one long line). The smaller force could easily overwhelm and annilate the larger force almost simply if it used a more concentrated formation and basically went down the line. Defeat in detail, while the larger force has more troops, at the point of contact the smaller army has superior concentration of force. I can't think of specific examples offhand but know throughout history quite a few "upsets" like that occured. Why would the larger force be in a long, indefensible line? Well, its easier and faster to move through rough terrain that way. Thats why units (and football, basketball, and other sports teams) don't use just one formation all the time. Different formations are better for doing different things. Etc, etc.

[Trotts]

I prefer to think of Beak as the shaved knuckle of the Bonehunters

[Gem Windcaster]

Trotts;183828 said:

I prefer to think of Beak as the shaved knuckle of the Bonehunters

Yes, he was wasn't he?

[tiam]

he had learned all the warrens. All of them. Tellan even Fenn was mentioned i think. Throughout the book he was set as a traumatised mage who clearly knew his stuff. Also Hoods reference seems that possibly Hood or someone has blessed him with all that talk of sanctiication.

[Dolorous Menhir]

So...did he remind anyone else of Forrest Gump?

[phart]

Dolorous Menhir;184189 said:

So...did he remind anyone else of Forrest Gump?

LOL, just a bit.

[GardenGnome]

I immediately thought autism...

[Dolorous Menhir]

My momma always said, "Magic was like a box of candles. You never know what colour you're gonna get."

[Illuyankas]

On my first reread, with Beak's first POV section, I do like the way he's worried about the other mages he talks to giving him hugs, and one of them crying, after hearing his backstory and so forth. It really adds to the 'you poor bastard' thing he has going on from pretty much every other character.

[Trotts]

Quote

My momma always said, "Magic was like a box of candles. You never know what colour you're gonna get."

Hahah thats such quality! I love it

[Anomander Rake]

I enjoyed his character, thought it was a sweet touch to add. As for him not previously being introduced, well I guess Erikson can't really introduce all 800 plus marines, as he only concentrates on a few squads viewpoint, and only uses views from others when something important is happening from their point.