[Abyss]

Raest was in awe of Darujhistan, and he used to have his own empire.

Plus, in general, i think it's not so much that humans have surpassed the tech of the elder races that they have found ways and means to compenste for not having that.

By example, faced with a physically superior foe (the Teblor) who could wipe out his armies, Kellanved sets up trading posts, settlements and colonies, makes alliances and subverts what he could not conquer by might. Or in the case of the Wickans, just sit back and watch them kill each other for a while.

Plus, the human trait that a powerful enemy can wipe out whole masses of them and sooner or later more show up with the same purpose.

So what's changed is that once there were less humans, and the various elder races could just do what they felt like. Now, a Jaghut sets up a tower, sooner or later she'll have neighbors. Wipe them out, an army shows up. Wipe that out, sooner or later more neighbors.

A tribe of Teblors wipes out a village. Sooner or later new settlers show up with better walls. Wipe out that village, eventually MORE settlers, with bigger, better walls, and more soldiers.

- Abyss, sees them sort of like Starbucks that way.

[paladin]

if the humans are so frail and such, why are they the dominant species? ask yourself that before knocking them for being lesser beings

[Dolorous Menhir]

Abyss;163208 said:

By example, faced with a physically superior foe (the Teblor) who could wipe out his armies, Kellanved sets up trading posts, settlements and colonies, makes alliances and subverts what he could not conquer by might.

I don't think the Malazans deserve the credit for that strategy, it seems to have been pioneered by the locals (I forget the tribe's name, but Silgar's people) and wasn't interrupted when the Malazans took over the continent.

It would've taken a lot longer to subdue the enslaved Teblor tribe than the handful of years the Malazans had held power in that region of Genebackis.

[Abyss]

Dolorous Menhir;163227 said:

I don't think the Malazans deserve the credit for that strategy, it seems to have been pioneered by the locals (I forget the tribe's name, but Silgar's people) and wasn't interrupted when the Malazans took over the continent.

It would've taken a lot longer to subdue the enslaved Teblor tribe than the handful of years the Malazans had held power in that region of Genebackis.

I could be wrong, but i believe Silgar's people were already a Malazan tributary/subject by then. Regardless, it's a human tactic, as opposed to exclusively a Malazan one. It even has a basis in reality, see settlers dealing with Native Americans 101, and Mappo's story in TB of how the Trell won a massive military victory but ultimately lost to the neighboring human empire.

Plus, when your target, ie the teblor, have a low birth rate and lifespans in the hundreds of years, the sheer inertia of human expansion will count for something.

- Abyss, big fan of fire water and cheap beads.

[Binder of Demons]

From reading another thread, could these "tyrants" be people like Kallor, who when still a mere human, managed to rule an entire continent and then single handedly destroy it. And this was all a few hundred thousand years ago.

I think he (Kallor) was supposed to have had access and/or knowledge of KKCM technology which he used in the destruction of Jacuruku sp.?

So what if these tyrants in Assail, have also got the knowledge/technology of the KCCM and are happy to use it on whomever bothers them?

[Battalion]

That's a good point. A gang of Kallors would be powerful in the extreme.

[Abyss]

Binder's point IS a good one, and i'm not sure one we've thought about before... maybe KC tech is a factor in how they are kicking the Imass's dusty butts.

More broadly, it does seem to serve a purpose - just having legions of undead uber warriors wandering around might be a problem plot wise, so the Imass needed to be kept occupied/distracted with something major.

- Abyss, that's right, the Tyrants of Assail are like television for kindergarteners...

[Gem Windcaster]

Aptorian;162446 said:

Letherii steel doesn't brake but neither does a Imass

Just for the record; remember that both Karsa
and Icarium snapped Imass swords with their own
as if they were made of twine.

---
back on topic: I doubt the KKCM left their technology around for people
to find - probably the short tails took it with them when they 'hid' or whatever
they were doing - and the assail seems a bit too arrogant to be using
such things.

That Kallor would have access to KKCM technology is a scary thought
indeed - if he once had it, he probably has a way to gain access to it
again...

[Abyss]

Gem Windcaster;164213 said:

... I doubt the KKCM left their technology around for people to find ...

Except that they were busy being turned into shoes and purses by the Tiste invasion and/or each other, so it's not like housecleaning and packing was high on their list of things to do.

And it seems (pure near baseless speculation) that the KN were mostly on the skykeeps and the survivors left with those.

- Abyss, figures a skykeep is way better than a wagon hitchd to a donkey when you're fleeing for your life.

[polishgenius]

Abyss;164191 said:

More broadly, it does seem to serve a purpose - just having legions of undead uber warriors wandering around might be a problem plot wise, so the Imass needed to be kept occupied/distracted with something major.

I could be wrong, but I got the impression that Assail was something ICE was going to be covering? In which case I think it's unlikely that it's just a distraction to keep the Imass out of Erikson's hair.

[Abyss]

Rather, it's a deliberate shift of the Imass over to ICE's sandbox so SE doesn't have to account for them when certain rabid fans are screaming 'but why oh WHY doesn't Cotillion just arrange for Imass clans to go to Leth and kill, kill, KILL the bad guys!!!! And then Icarium/Karsa can beat Karsa/Icarium and Tavore and that ex-Red Blade chick can make the sex cuz that would be hawt!!! Yay!'.

- Abyss, blames the fans, not the fandom

[Set'alahd Crool]

aaronsan;164247 said:

Well, I for one think that there better be a pretty damn good explanation for how anyone could manage killing that many Imass.

Aside from all the excellent points you all have made here, in favor of Imass prowess, let's not forget their ability to "dust" as an offensive skill vs. a defensive one (retreating via dusting was already covered). Tool gives a brief display of how this would work, in MOI. Each time he is surrounded/mobbed, he dusts and reappears elsewhere.

On the whole, Imass seem to want to "fight honorably" and only use as much of their ability as is necessary to defeat the foe at hand. But think about that ambush of Heboric and company.

Firstly, I'm pretty sure that the swords impaling Lanas Togg(?) prevented her from "dusting", as you put it. That would remove the Nightcrawler element. Particularly if the Tyrants could imbue ranged weapons with that same power, though that might be pushing it a bit.

Secondly, the Imass who ambushed Heboric et al were none other than the Unbound, and are a bit of an exception among Imass.

Anyway, I wopuldn't worry too much about Assail. I'm sure the tale, when told, will outdo our lofty expectations.

[Gem Windcaster]

Abyss;164224 said:

Except that they were busy being turned into shoes and purses by the Tiste invasion and/or each other, so it's not like housecleaning and packing was high on their list of things to do.

No...they just set it on selfdestruct before the fighting started...
Turns out, the KKCM is very talanted in the art of selfdestructing.:heyhey:
Or rather, they are good at hiding...
(better stop before my argument goes full circle somewhere
and it ends up dead)
---
But seriously, we know virtually nothing about their technology, how do we know it's even possible to
use for humans? - Yes, I remember that Rake did figure out a way to use it...but the sky keep broke down
shortly after.

[Obdigore]

Gem Windcaster;164332 said:

No...they just set it on selfdestruct before the fighting started...
Turns out, the KKCM is very talanted in the art of selfdestructing.:heyhey:
Or rather, they are good at hiding...
(better stop before my argument goes full circle somewhere
and it ends up dead)
---
But seriously, we know virtually nothing about their technology, how do we know it's even possible to
use for humans? - Yes, I remember that Rake did figure out a way to use it...but the sky keep broke down
shortly after.

Gem, did it break down, or did he ram a stone keep with it?
I would assume that you have to have some sort of innate magic to 'power' the machines of the KCCM, perhaps that is what the matrons did, and why rake (who you would assume to be pretty powerfull magically) was able to power the thing.

[Gem Windcaster]

Obdigore;164348 said:

Gem, did it break down, or did he ram a stone keep with it?
I would assume that you have to have some sort of innate magic to 'power' the machines of the KCCM, perhaps that is what the matrons did, and why rake (who you would assume to be pretty powerfull magically) was able to power the thing.

Hmm...I see your point. Here, I could argument that we don't really
know it wasn't dying already before it crashed, just to save my face...
but that would be silly. But it is true though, that we don't know how
the wretched things work.

I still think the self destruct theory is positively resplendent. :angel:

[Obdigore]

Gem Windcaster;164365 said:

Hmm...I see your point. Here, I could argument that we don't really
know it wasn't dying already before it crashed, just to save my face...
but that would be silly. But it is true though, that we don't know how
the wretched things work.

I still think the self destruct theory is positively resplendent. :angel:

So, as I sit here and think, I remember that it was falling apart as it emerged from the water, and that it was surmised that the pressure had damaged it. Perhaps it was the fact that rake used all his magical power to create a 'bubble' around it that the water would not get through and drown his people, and did not have the power to hold it together anymore?

(Or yes Gem, perhaps we was unable to hold off hitting the big red button anymore, there is no more evidence that I am right than that you are )

[Gem Windcaster]

Thankyou for the lovely admonition.
I couldn't have said it better myself

[Brys Beddict]

Rake's Skykeep was in pretty shoddy condition by time MoI rolled around. Tays nearly destroyed the thing and then Rake went and crashed it into a building. Its no wonder why it broke; it was too damaged to keep working, kinda like an TI that sustains too much damage and gets severed from the ritual. Also, wasn't Rake's Skykeep found inside a glacier? I'm reckoning that would've damaged it too (likewise it could've preserved it ).

[Sucka27]

It's the Inchoroi.

Just kidding, but what I do know is that SE is signed on for more books than the series will hold so I'm hoping and believing (I believe what I hope like most ig'nant Americans) that there will be a trilogy dealing with just this. A page and a half and SE piqued our curiosity like no one else could. What a genius this guy is.

The way I see the whole Jacaruku, Korelri, Assail etc. storylines is that they're like most linear-fashioned role playing games. They allow for a second tier of the storymaking. Once tier 1 has exhausted itself you move to the next tier where everything laughs at the stuff you just read. Kind of like when you play Final Fantasy (any of them really) and you get the airship and you get to an island where you do maybe 1 hp of damage and the enemy calls "bezerker" or some shit that rolls up your entire party like piece of sushi. That's the next tier and we'll get to that when the kick-ass story of tier 1 comes to a close.

P.S. I know this is an old thread, I just reread MOI and was intrigued by the mention of Assail.