[Aptorian]

As a rule, if you are writing an Avengers story, I don't think you should ever show a character like Hulk or Iron man fighting along side Cap Amerika or Black Widow. Everybody looks bad in such a line up.

Thor and Hulk look weaker because you have to make believe that they have any problem at all stomping random mooks. And you have to pretend baseline humans stand a chance fighting against villains or aliens that could destroy a sky scraper with a sneeze.

Why the hell aren't every Avenger equipped with Stark Tech by now? Why isn't there an army of Ironmen? Oh it drives me fucking nuts the mental loop holes you have to jump through to explain how woefully underequipped the Avengers are.

[T77]

polishgenius, on 08 June 2018 - 12:08 PM, said:

So I got and read the second volume of the Wild Storm reboot. I really love what Ellis is doing with the universe as a whole, toning down the superhero elements and making a grandiose SF spy thriller out of it, and the IO-vs-Stormwatch setup is brilliant.
Most of the character re-imaginings work too, though I'm not sure about what they've done with Jenny Sparks

Spoiler

ie that she's apparently made by the daemonites/kherans (and the distinction there is not yet clear but Zannah- obviously Kheran in the original version- is listed in with the daemonites so the setup seems different). On the other hand merging Swift and the Doctor works quite well.

I am in the middle of the first volume and I agree this is so good! We have a lot of Ellis fans in here, if you haven't read this you should. And as some props to our libraries in the US, Hoopla has the first two volumes for my library.

[Abyss]

Alternative Goose, on 08 June 2018 - 02:14 PM, said:

As a rule, if you are writing an Avengers story, I don't think you should ever show a character like Hulk or Iron man fighting along side Cap Amerika or Black Widow. Everybody looks bad in such a line up.

Thor and Hulk look weaker because you have to make believe that they have any problem at all stomping random mooks. And you have to pretend baseline humans stand a chance fighting against villains or aliens that could destroy a sky scraper with a sneeze.

Why the hell aren't every Avenger equipped with Stark Tech by now? Why isn't there an army of Ironmen? Oh it drives me fucking nuts the mental loop holes you have to jump through to explain how woefully underequipped the Avengers are.

Baseline humans? ...seriously?
Cap goes for symbolism, and has kicked Irom Man’s butt repeatedly without any sissy armor.
Widow’s a spy and assassin. And has used a metric tone of tech when she needed to.
Next?

[Aptorian]

Poor excuses. Iron man has jobbed to Cap when they needed America man to look strong. Tony Stark is Batman and Superman in one. He is exponentially more capable of handling any situation than cap.

It's not about what the writers have cooked up for the weaker characters on the Avengers roster, it's about how you utilize the characters strength.

Cap should be a general at HQ not a footsoldier. We're not in the 40s. Does anyone believe that that low tech shield means shit when even a low level Hydra goon can just shoot Cap in the shin and then what?

A million aliens are storming out of a portal in Time's Square. Who will matter in this fight? Black Widow popping off electro wrist shots at super advanced aliens in power armour or fucking Thor?

Use the characters in the stories that make sense for them. Intelligence gathering, assassinations, diplomacy, planning, etc. But when the world is about to end don't send fucking Falcon and Arrow man. Send shehulk and Hyperion and Sentry, etc.

Or start writing more plausible stories where all the mortal Avengers are always equipped like a SHIELD TASK FORCE with the best Stark Equipment to keep them alive.

[Abyss]

You have forgotten or outgrown Marvel, I fear. Arguing for logic and practicality in the Avengers is like arguing for accurate military procedure in GI Joe, or something resembling evolution in XMen.

[Aptorian]

I don't think you're wrong but I do think there is room within the fiction for adaption and rethinking. If they want to write bigger stories they also need to get smarter. They don't have to sacrifice the fantastic aspects but you could modernize the group dynamic.

[polishgenius]

Apt you should totally read the Wildstorm reboot that me and T77 are talking about, it could have been written with you in mind (Ellis has always had some of the same concerns you obviously do - right back to his original run Stormwatch which is all about taking an Avengers-type superhero team and dividing it up into black-ops teams that do different work depending on what their strengths are). It's very slow burn and also taking place early in the 'verse development so the teams haven't formed yet but it's very much about going full-bore applying the techy and spywork slant to a whole superhero universe.

[Abyss]

Alternative Goose, on 09 June 2018 - 08:07 AM, said:

I don't think you're wrong but I do think there is room within the fiction for adaption and rethinking. If they want to write bigger stories they also need to get smarter. They don't have to sacrifice the fantastic aspects but you could modernize the group dynamic.

That’s not Marvel. Or even DC for that matter.

[Aptorian]

polishgenius, on 09 June 2018 - 11:43 AM, said:

Apt you should totally read the Wildstorm reboot that me and T77 are talking about, it could have been written with you in mind (Ellis has always had some of the same concerns you obviously do - right back to his original run Stormwatch which is all about taking an Avengers-type superhero team and dividing it up into black-ops teams that do different work depending on what their strengths are). It's very slow burn and also taking place early in the 'verse development so the teams haven't formed yet but it's very much about going full-bore applying the techy and spywork slant to a whole superhero universe.

I'll check it out.

Warren Ellis is definitely an example of evolving the idea of superheroes or world threatening events. I loved Planetary and Global Frequency.

[stone monkey]

If you want Ellis unleashed on superhumans, I'd really suggest you look at his thematic trilogy of Black Summer, No Hero and Supergod. That's some bleak shit.

[Abyss]

Most of the way thru Mark Waid’s IREDEEMABLE/INCORRUPTIBLE series(es).
There is a reason I enjoy Waid’s writing... these books prove it again and again and holy fuckstars INCORRUPTIBLE #23... did NOT. See. THAT. Coming.

[Abyss]

SEVEN TO ETERNITY, #1 - 9.
Like 3:10 TO YUMA meets KRULL with Lovecraft and Malazan elements. Visually awesome. Great story pace. Terrific fantasy setting. Remender really does his bestest work on his own properties.

[JPK]

Abyss, on 24 June 2018 - 02:38 AM, said:

SEVEN TO ETERNITY, #1 - 9.
Like 3:10 TO YUMA meets KRULL with Lovecraft and Malazan elements. Visually awesome. Great story pace. Terrific fantasy setting. Remender really does his bestest work on his own properties.

Yeah, I loved Seven to Eternity. The only problem with it (for me) is having to wait so long for the next tpb. Besides, how fucking awesome is Drawbridge.

[Abyss]

JPK, on 24 June 2018 - 07:43 PM, said:

Abyss, on 24 June 2018 - 02:38 AM, said:

SEVEN TO ETERNITY, #1 - 9.
Like 3:10 TO YUMA meets KRULL with Lovecraft and Malazan elements. Visually awesome. Great story pace. Terrific fantasy setting. Remender really does his bestest work on his own properties.

Yeah, I loved Seven to Eternity. The only problem with it (for me) is having to wait so long for the next tpb. Besides, how fucking awesome is Drawbridge.

Even among the generally cool cast , he was awesome.

[Aptorian]

Been reading more Avengers. Finished the Infinity/avengers world arc that leads into that crazy new "Secret Wars" event I've seen bits and pieces of on the interweb.

It actually improved with time I think, but there must be a lot of content that I was missing in between the volumes. Pretty drastic things shift.

Spoilered in case somebody has recent marvel comics on their to read list.

Spoiler

From one volume to the next, 8 months skip and The Illuminati are on the run from the worlds governments, because reasons...? Was it the whole blowing up earths thing? Suddenly Cap America is 70 years old, Stark is missing and Sunspot or what his name is, is running The Avengers and owns AIM?! Whooo boy that's a lot of progress.

So by the end of this infinity/World run, we find out that Stephen Strange is running the Black Priests that were destroying worlds and Doom is Rabum Alal, the destroyer of worlds, the one the Black Swan is on the run from and Doom is murdering Molecule Men because apparently all molecule men across the universe are a time bomb ment to blow up their universe, because the beyonders think that's a fun experiment.

That's some pretty out there writing. Interesting but ridiculous. The idea that Thor or Hyperion should be able to fist fight a beyonder is pretty goofy. It's like saying a biblical figure decided to fight Jehova. That's not a fight. The fact that Strange and Doom somehow end up being the architects behind unstoppable forces destroying universes?

It's dumb as fuck but I actually ended up quite happy when Strange and Doom ended up being on either end of that. Mainly because I love those two characters but I don't quite see how they're supposed to fight the beyonders/Ivory Kings. Nor do I really understand the Illuminati's end game, beyond "lets build a life raft that can float around in nothingness".

Also read the first volume of Superior Spiderman. That's both a stupid story and quite fun. I love seeing how Doc Ock's brain just cuts through the super hero stuff and invents easy solutions parker should have thought of ages ago. Parker's soul seems to keep Doc Ock playing relatively nice but I kind of wouldn't mind seeing "Super villain Spider-man".

This post has been edited by Alternative Goose: 03 July 2018 - 09:41 AM

[QuickTidal]

Over my cottage/Canada Day weekend I finally got around to reading Peter J. Tomasi & Jorge Jimenez's SUPER SONS (about Damian Wayne & Jonathan Kent), and I have to say this pretty much solidifies Tomasi as one of my favourite authors working in comics today. It's light, airy fun stuff that never gets bogged down in any "grim" DC stuff. Really fantastic. Highly recommended.

I also, and I'm super late to the party on this one and I realize this is a travesty that I'm only now rectifying, FINALLY read DC: NEW FRONTIER by the late, great Darwyn Cooke. Wow. I totally get why it's so praised and why it won Eisner Awards now. It's utterly phenomenal cover to cover. I'm not often this blown away by a comic. The art style, the setting (WWII-1960), and most of all the amazing writing. I've never read a Darwyn Cooke story before this one, and I was not disappointed. That man KNEW comics. Anyways, will seek out more stuff of his now. Bottom line: This is probably the finest Justice League story I've ever read. Ever.

[Abyss]

Abyss, on 20 June 2018 - 03:33 AM, said:

Most of the way thru Mark Waid's IREDEEMABLE/INCORRUPTIBLE series(es).
There is a reason I enjoy Waid's writing... these books prove it again and again and holy fuckstars INCORRUPTIBLE #23... did NOT. See. THAT. Coming.

Just finished both runs.Overall, a really solid story by Waid, great art throughout. Arguably both comics could have been tighter together and perhaps a bit shorter, but those are nits. Both stories move at a good pace, have some great swerves and twists and fun supporting casts that do more than just bounce off the title characters.
The basic story... that a ‘Superman’ type character wholly loses his shit and just wrecks the world, and his arch enemy has a crisis of conscience and becomes a good guy, are well handled and manage to avoid over simplifying the concepts or taking gratuitous shortcuts to wrap things up. If the endings are a little too happy for the level of devastation in the books, well, they work.
Recommended.

[T77]

QuickTidal, on 03 July 2018 - 01:15 PM, said:

Over my cottage/Canada Day weekend I finally got around to reading Peter J. Tomasi & Jorge Jimenez's SUPER SONS (about Damian Wayne & Jonathan Kent), and I have to say this pretty much solidifies Tomasi as one of my favourite authors working in comics today. It's light, airy fun stuff that never gets bogged down in any "grim" DC stuff. Really fantastic. Highly recommended.

I also, and I'm super late to the party on this one and I realize this is a travesty that I'm only now rectifying, FINALLY read DC: NEW FRONTIER by the late, great Darwyn Cooke. Wow. I totally get why it's so praised and why it won Eisner Awards now. It's utterly phenomenal cover to cover. I'm not often this blown away by a comic. The art style, the setting (WWII-1960), and most of all the amazing writing. I've never read a Darwyn Cooke story before this one, and I was not disappointed. That man KNEW comics. Anyways, will seek out more stuff of his now. Bottom line: This is probably the finest Justice League story I've ever read. Ever.

Better than Rock of Ages by Morrison? I'm reading his JLA run now and loving it! Currently in Rock of Ages. In any event, NEW FRONTIER was not on my list - added, thanks for the reco.

[QuickTidal]

T77, on 04 July 2018 - 01:59 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 03 July 2018 - 01:15 PM, said:

Over my cottage/Canada Day weekend I finally got around to reading Peter J. Tomasi & Jorge Jimenez's SUPER SONS (about Damian Wayne & Jonathan Kent), and I have to say this pretty much solidifies Tomasi as one of my favourite authors working in comics today. It's light, airy fun stuff that never gets bogged down in any "grim" DC stuff. Really fantastic. Highly recommended.

I also, and I'm super late to the party on this one and I realize this is a travesty that I'm only now rectifying, FINALLY read DC: NEW FRONTIER by the late, great Darwyn Cooke. Wow. I totally get why it's so praised and why it won Eisner Awards now. It's utterly phenomenal cover to cover. I'm not often this blown away by a comic. The art style, the setting (WWII-1960), and most of all the amazing writing. I've never read a Darwyn Cooke story before this one, and I was not disappointed. That man KNEW comics. Anyways, will seek out more stuff of his now. Bottom line: This is probably the finest Justice League story I've ever read. Ever.

Better than Rock of Ages by Morrison? I'm reading his JLA run now and loving it! Currently in Rock of Ages. In any event, NEW FRONTIER was not on my list - added, thanks for the reco.

Yes, better. It's basically a retelling of the origins of the JL through the events of post WWII America including a lot of the major 20th Century elements (Mcarthyism, space race, racism, sexism, ect. of the 50's and 60's). It's stunning drawn and written.

It's about a 400page comic I think (the physical version anyways) and costs about $50 in said physical version, but I got it on a Comixology sale for like $8? I think it's about $20 on comixology normally.

SO WORTH IT. hope you enjoy it!

[Aptorian]

Finished Marvels new Secret Wars event.

That was actually really good. However I wish that it had been say a couple years worth of comic book runs sort of like the age of apocalypse comics. I feel like it would had been fascinating fully exploring a world governed by an all powerful Doom.

There was so many fascinating ideas compressed into one volume.

One aspect that I do feel was weak is that it's basically just a retread of the original Secret Wars (Maybe that's the intent?). That feels like a missed opportunity to examine what a world ruled by Doom would be like (I always root for him) but more importantly the problem of the beyonders.

From a cosmic balance stand point I don't like them and I feel like this run should have either created a permanent counter against them or just excised them from the universe.