Malazan Empire: Reaper's Gale Prologue - Malazan Empire

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Reaper's Gale Prologue

#441 User is offline   Mael 

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 10:02 PM

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You are making vaild points Dolorius. As you said, dragons and sole taken die but not sole taken dragons. We know Dragons die but they are not sole taken so hence the whole argument of gothos trapping Blood eye's soul n the finnest and bloodeye not being able to kill Silchas outright. Were I see your point is that soletaken's have been killed before like the soletaken bear that Karsa killed so maybe you are right.

As for Andarist, we all know he has foresaken his draconean blood (if he ever had any) or else he wll have wooped those edur on drift avali so you really cannot compare rake and andarist.


I don't believe Andarist was soultaken. He asked Cutter if Rake had forsaken his draconian blood because it made rake "impure" in Andarist's eyes.
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#442 User is offline   Monoch Ochem 

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 01:01 PM

Andarist is not Soletaken, as far as we know. Well, Raest seemed to think himself equal to the task of destroying Silanah and the Soletaken dragons. So in theory, it could happen.
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#443 User is offline   Dolorous Menhir 

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 04:57 PM

Andarist used to be a Soletaken Eleint like his brothers, but renounced it and became a normal Andii again.

I brought him up in anticipation of the argument "Rake can't die because he's the son of Mother Dark," since that was no impediment to Andarist's death. Not because he was an example of the mortality of Soletaken Eleint.

Rake is a Soletaken, an Eleint, a Tiste Andii and a direct descendant of Mother Dark. We've seen members of all four groups die in the series, and I don't think you can use Rake's status as any of these things to argue that he can't die.

Just for storyline reasons, I think Rake will die. He's got "noble tragic death" written all over him.
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#444 User is offline   S Ruin 

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 05:09 PM

I know all of those groups you mentioned have had a member of it killed but not the combination of a sole-taken dragon. No sole taken dragon has yet to be killed with finality - Rake, Osseric, Bloodeye, Ruin, Olar Ethil, spite and the rest - cannot remember all their names. Even Draconus - he is still stuck in the sword and will be released eventually
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#445 User is offline   Dolorous Menhir 

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 05:13 PM

Proper dragons have died. Why not Soletaken ones?
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#446 User is offline   Dark Mac 

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 06:43 PM

Vorcan killed Orfantal easily enough, despite her being Soletaken Eleint.
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#447 User is offline   Illuyankas 

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 06:46 PM

You got Serrat and Orfantal mixed up, old bean.
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
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#448 User is offline   Dolorous Menhir 

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 07:01 PM

It's not confirmed that Serrat was a Soletaken Eleint.

She appeared to be superior to Korlat & Orfantal, both Eleint, which would suggest she was. Rake spoke of his four assassin-mages who fell immediately below him in the Andii power structure. I think Serrat was one of them, and when we saw the three dragons at Coral they were the three surviving assassin-mages.

But we don't know for sure.
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#449 User is offline   Illuyankas 

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 07:15 PM

They didn't actually say how many dragons there were at Coral, only that one of them was red - Silannah - so the 'bookish warlocks' might be also Soletaken. And you're right, we don't know for sure. We hardly know anything for sure. Gah.
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
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#450 User is offline   Dolorous Menhir 

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 07:18 PM

I thought there was Rake, Silannah, and three additional dragons at Coral. I'll need to look it up.
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#451 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 07:24 PM

Bit of a Gotm'ism there, but Serrat was an assassin-mage, of whom there were more than 4, given how many showedup to fight the Daru assassins and QB and Kalam on the rooftops. It's certainly possible that Serrat was one of four major assassin-mages, who are just second to Rake, with multiple others less powerful.

There were, iirc, four major powerhouses who drop with Rake at the end of the fight to face demon Pearl. I took those to be his four soletaken Andii, including Korlat and Orfantal.

It's not unthinkable that the bookish warlocks are anything - i personally like the pet theory (sit theory, sit!) that they are the same three who led the retreat to Bluerose post MT prologue as told by Ahn in TB.

I don't remember the exqct quote in MoI as to how many dragons showed up when MoonsSpawn busts out, tho i recall the ref to Silanah.

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#452 User is offline   Illuyankas 

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 07:30 PM

Rake never changed to dragon form at Coral at all, I'm pretty sure.
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
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#453 User is offline   Monoch Ochem 

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 03:17 PM

@ Abyss: But weren't the ones who led the retreat to Bluerose the ones who actually became the Onyx Wizards?
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#454 User is offline   S Ruin 

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 05:18 PM

I cant remember for sure if it was mentioned in GOTM that Serrat was a soletaken - will have a quick browse. If she is, then there goes my theory.

Just to reiterate that I was not saying Rake could not be killed but how exactly (due to the fact that if a sole taken dragon is kiled then the sole will just escape the corpreal body and probably find another host - like what we all think will eventually happen to scabby)
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#455 User is offline   Mael 

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 05:26 PM

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Rake never changed to dragon form at Coral at all, I'm pretty sure.



this is correct. Rake transformed during the retaking of...the city whose name i can't remember that the Grey Swords were defending. This was when Rake swooped down to grab anastar and wounded anastar's eye before dropping him.

During the battle of Coral the Andii simply showed up and fully unveiled their warren to engulf the city. I believe that Korlat and her brother may have viered into soultaken form during that battle though.
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#456 User is offline   Monoch Ochem 

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Posted 15 February 2007 - 05:32 PM

Korlat and Orfantal were veered and fighting by the time Moons Spawn arrived at Coral. Other dragons from Moons Spawn also joined in.

Rake veered once in MoI and that wasn't at Capustan. It was where the Tenescowri (led by Anaster) met Dujek's and Whiskeyjack's army..some way away from Capustan, iirc.
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#457 User is offline   Tather Demaleon 

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Posted 18 February 2007 - 12:31 AM

Thanks to Kallor for the RG intro...

"His gaze settled upon one such soldier, a woman near the hill’s summit. Mangled by sorcery, her armour melded with the twisted flesh"

Does this remind anyone of a certain Sorcerer from Drift Avalii who Crokus/ Cutter came across? I know it doesn't add up with the locations, but there were survivers from the Battle with the Tiste Edur...

Also a couple of people were complaining about the inconsitancies of time lines; the way that I ignore/ explain these to keep myself content is by thinking of the books as historic stories which quite regulary get things mixed up as are told down the ages and by different people who see and remember things in different ways. :)

Tather Demaleon
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#458 User is offline   Dolorous Menhir 

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 12:06 AM

Tather Demaleon;160398 said:

"His gaze settled upon one such soldier, a woman near the hill’s summit. Mangled by sorcery, her armour melded with the twisted flesh"

Does this remind anyone of a certain Sorcerer from Drift Avalii who Crokus/ Cutter came across? I know it doesn't add up with the locations, but there were survivers from the Battle with the Tiste Edur...


There were survivors, yes. However Hawl (the female sorcerer you are thinking off, who was badly burned) was not one of them. If you remember, Cotillion & Ammanas themselves came to collect the body, since she was a member of the Family, and the wife of Admiral Nok.
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#459 User is offline   Izingad 

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 12:13 AM

Interjecting: gods can die. No one is immortal (even Burn). Rake can be killed.

a+b=c.
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#460 User is offline   Called-by-the-Voices 

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 06:11 PM

One question: when Rake and Kilmandaros set off in that rent they enter Emurlahnn.. But, I don't get it then from where did they go? Where did they slay Scabby? *confused*
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