[vaiski]

It's b.

Quote

'Will Scandabari seek to free her?' Menandore asked.
'Scandabari is in no condition to free anyone,' Osserc replied, 'including himself.'
The two women were clearly startled by this.

And yes, that can be argued.
What perhaps speaks against it is Osserc's comment about delaying Rake long enough from something (ie. from attacking Scandabari?) but then again Osserc remarks that Rake was quite angry when they met.. and he was quite calm and collected when speaking to Kilmandaros.

To sum it up: :confused:

[Ivan the terrible]

Just saw this here...Holy ****! , sounds like a hell of book

[Sir Thursday]

I thought I might as well try and get a resolution so I put the Rake v Osserc fight confusion down as a question to ask SE: http://www.malazanempire.com/forums/showth...9725#post109725

Sir Thursday

[Folken]

vaiski;109738 said:

It's b.

Quote

'Will Scandabari seek to free her?' Menandore asked.
'Scandabari is in no condition to free anyone,' Osserc replied, 'including himself.'
The two women were clearly startled by this.

And yes, that can be argued.
What perhaps speaks against it is Osserc's comment about delaying Rake long enough from something (ie. from attacking Scandabari?) but then again Osserc remarks that Rake was quite angry when they met.. and he was quite calm and collected when speaking to Kilmandaros.

To sum it up: :confused:

What he said...I've been saying that for a while now. Apologizes for never getting the quote out though. It's the comment of "Delaying" rake is the reason I brought this debate up, otherwise there really is no reason why Rake and Osserc shouldn't fight;).

I even acknowledge that there might have been a secondary battle...but for what cause?

[Hume]

Jen said:

I even acknowledge that there might have been a secondary battle...but for what cause?

Well didnt Menandore or Seltatha.. Whoever those two chicks were.
One of them Im sure said something like them battling from time to time and they do it cause they're bored half the time.

[Folken]

I seem to recall it might have been a passing comment.

I know for certain most of the conversation went something like this

"why dont they kill eachother?"
"i unno"
"because they would the game continue"
"why?"

perhaps ur boredom comment comes after that? lol

[Hume]

I think I interpreted my boredom statement as comming out of the 'game' mention I would say..

Its just something else that they do in their near immortal lives.
Neither wants to kill the other because neither wants to die. Neither really seems to hold a real grudge or hate for the other. So they have no real reasan for a killing the other.

Oh and Does Rake have Dragnipur at this stage ?
Or has he killed Draconus yet ?

[Dolorous Menhir]

He can't have it at this stage. Draconus didn't finish the sword until after the MoI prologue.

[Hume]

So has the CG fallen yet at this time in the story.. That is the imprisonment of Scabby, Silchas and destruction of KCCM.. >?

[Illuyankas]

The CG fell about 120,000 before the main storyline, the next earliest date is 300,000, from MOI for the Imass hunting Jaghut (I can't even remember if that was Pre-Ritual!), this is somewhere around 400,000 years ago. That figure is based on clues in the MT prologue about the Jaghut not oppressing the Imass, who aren't very advanced at that point, plus extra stuff that's in a TBH forum thread somewhere. So, this is somewhere between 280,000 and 180,000 years before the CG fell.

[Aptorian]

Jen said:

I seem to recall it might have been a passing comment.

I know for certain most of the conversation went something like this

"why dont they kill eachother?"
"i unno"
"because they would the game continue"
"why?"

perhaps ur boredom comment comes after that? lol

My impression was that Rake and Osserc fought in the way that Dujek and Brood did. With honor and admiration (perhaps). I thought of it as mutual respect, they understood each other but still would not yield... They would fight until defeat, not death. Friends are hardly the right word but comrades might work

And Dragnipur is made some time before the bringing down of the CG, since Draconus mentions the sword after kallors curse of the EG. I think it is K'rul that says that Draconus because of the curse then has to refashion the sword (I'm guessing we're talking loopholes made into it)... so I guess the sword is both older and younger then the CG fall.

[Morgoth]

Draconus mentioned the sword, but added that he was not yet finished with it.. So no, dragnipur was not completed until some time after the fall of the CG.

As far as I remember he never said he was finished, he said he was working on it, which is quite a fundamental difference..

[Cedeos]

Illuyankas;109787 said:

the next earliest date is 300,000, from MOI for the Imass hunting Jaghut (I can't even remember if that was Pre-Ritual!)

It is pre-ritual, as the Imass are just gathering for the ritual at this time.

[tiam]

Illuyankas;109787 said:

The CG fell about 120,000 before the main storyline, the next earliest date is 300,000, from MOI for the Imass hunting Jaghut (I can't even remember if that was Pre-Ritual!), this is somewhere around 400,000 years ago. That figure is based on clues in the MT prologue about the Jaghut not oppressing the Imass, who aren't very advanced at that point, plus extra stuff that's in a TBH forum thread somewhere. So, this is somewhere between 280,000 and 180,000 years before the CG fell.

The CG actually fell 198 000 years before burns sleep. ANd even then it was 5 years after the fall. Not to be pedantic but thats like a 70000 year gap.

[Murrin]

Onos;109717 said:

What do Azath's do? Well to my understanding they clean up things of power that are causing a mess of things. What place is more messed up than KE? None to my knowledge. So i would assume having an Azath there would be a good thing to at least try to start the healing process. So IMO using the Scabby Finnest to start a house wouldnt be too crazy.

Interesting. Where did we last see Gothos in the main timeline? In Tremolor. Where was Tremolor? It was holding a comparably big fragment of Kurald Emurlahn to Raraku. The fragment may have been claimed and transformed since, but the connection is there. A very loose connection, to be sure, but still a connection.
Icarium attacked an Azath, but we do not know that his father was within the Azath he killed; he may simply have sought access through the first Azath he came across.

[Rat Mentor]

I wonder could the Finnest used to imprison Bloodeye's soul not of been a human Heart????

Could the (in theory) heart then of been placed inside say... Kettle???

After all didn't Kallor or Hetan say how "cool" it was when they discovered who or what the soul in Kettle is....

From their statement it would seem that the pre disposed theory of a FA soul may be incorrect...

[Whelp]

Rat Mentor;109878 said:

I wonder could the Finnest used to imprison Bloodeye's soul not of been a human Heart????

Could the (in theory) heart then of been placed inside say... Kettle???

After all didn't Kallor or Hetan say how "cool" it was when they discovered who or what the soul in Kettle is....

From their statement it would seem that the pre disposed theory of a FA soul may be incorrect...

If I remember correctly, Silchas identifies the soul within Kettle as FA - and I think he would know Scabandarai.
Plus, humans as such did not exist at that time, only a few Imass.

@Kallor:
Great

[Folken]

tiam;109845 said:

The CG actually fell 198 000 years before burns sleep. ANd even then it was 5 years after the fall. Not to be pedantic but thats like a 70000 year gap.

He fell 119,739 BBS- Reference MoI Prologue Part 2 - 119,736 BBS(3 year's after the Fall of the Crippled God)

*Yes the dates are correct. its not 119,733. Think and you will understand, for those that are confused only:p

[Abyss]

Terrible child - probably the otataral dragon from HoC, given we've seen links between Starvald D' and otataral. Note that Scabby seemed to be locked in his draconic form with no access to either of KE or SD to defend himself. makes me wonder whether he was severely weakened before Kili and Mael started punching his bones into pieces.

Scabby's soul - while i do like the notion of Iccy being somehow linked to Scabby's soul, it seems unlikely. The notion that his soul was used for the basis of an Azath house that Gothos took refuge in, and that Iccy subsequently destroyed is also intriguing.

If we're to accept the notion that Scabby is in 'agony', there must be some unpleasant aspect to it.

Timeline - is not important.

- Abyss, denies all math.

[Hume]

What I was getting at with the Timeline thing..
(Yeh I can be vague at times ..sorry)

Is whether or not if when Rake and Kily went into that warren to do 'housecleaning(?)' If Rake had Dragnipur at that stage. It seems he dosent.
So anything he came across was taken down by Vengence/grief in his hands.