[Ivan the terrible]

I am re reading HOC and originally while i liked Karsa some what, He is really beginning to grow on me has this occured for anyone else since BH? I think he may actually be a truly great character, what do you all think

[Tattooed Hand]

I have always thought he was really great, partly because he seems to grow so much throughout the story. I mean, by the end he is riding around with this woman. He doesn't rape her, doesn't hurt her and looks out for her. He also seems like someone with a keen intellect who is also extremely observant and has a pretty good idea of his capabilities and sheer will.

I wish he would strangle Feather Witch on that ship though, she really rubs me the wrong way.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Karsa is BRILLIANT.

[dessembrae]

@dolorous : i second that motion.

WITNESS

[Abyss]

Third'd. Close-minded murderer, marauder and rapist to introspective, clever warrior and champion of the oppressed. And marauder.

- Abyss, witnessed.

[Ivan the terrible]

Cool glad you all agree, What i noticed during my re read mostly was the fact subtle hints SE left about Karsa' burgeoning intelligence. Now onto my main point, with Karsas "new found subtlty of mind" if he acquired an awareness of Iccys potential do you think his pride would over rule his wit and he would engage in a brawl with Iccy.

I am not talking about Karsa being shamed into a fight; merely overcoming his previous pride. He has shown an ability to forswear old vows as seen with his admiration and acceptance of the malazan war machine and empire. Will he be able to over come his past enimity with Iccy would he even try?

Like Trull, Karsa embodies many of the main themes of the book, an ability to reject tradition and the elder. Can he grow? Is the question SE asks can we Humanity grow past societal grudges, should we even attempt to? I am not looking for a who would beat who tread if we compare the 2 Iccy and Karsa do so on who has the most potential for growth. And secondly how much does memory affect character development

[Sir Thursday]

While Karsa has certainly grown and matured, I don't think he would be able to resist having a pop at Iccy if he got the chance. And I can't think of anywhere he could learn of Icarium's potential, unless his charming travel companion (name escaping me at the moment) lets slip something about Icarium's rage while discussing Icarium's time-keeping inventions (which I should have thought she would take great interest in).

Sir Thursday

[jwolfbro]

The first time I read HoC I was bored out of my mind with the first book. I had no idea who this brand new (I thought) character was and his relevance, if any to the overall story. By the time I got to the end I was enthralled. I actually changed my mind. Like others have said Karsa grew on me. His actions, and more importantly his dialogue with Samar Dev in BH is awesome. With so few words he reveals his deep understanding of broad concepts and the application, not to mention the far reaching consequences. Those that call him a savage and a barbarian are sadly lacking, often to their mortal regret.

[Folken]

always hated him

[tiam]

i find him a very interesting read. Just because of his impartial view of the 7c rebellion and his comparison to farming. He believes that the 7c rebellion is not about freeing the masses from the wrath of their overlords but simply changing those overlords. A complete change from the naive Teblor. Hes grown from book to book the dsame way fiddler has gone from bumbling psychotic sappper in GOTM to the most valued vetran of the entire 14th.

[Gothos]

as a character, Karsa is the best one in the book. for many not the most likable one, but the development and everything else - to describe it, I'd have to use too many words . I liked him from the start, and he fast grew into the top-notch chars in the series, if not in fantasy in general.
brilliance.

[Ivan the terrible]

@ Jen Why?

[Gem Windcaster]

I like Karsa, because he is such an unconventional fantasy character, but I
still hope Icarium will kick his you-know-what. Just a little - not kill him or anything - just a to make him fly some miles or so off the coast.

[Thelomen Toblakai]

At the start of HOC even though i found him interesting i thought Karsa was a complete a$$. He treated people like garbage and made vows about this and that. But by the end of the BH he is no longer un-caring he is a clever powerful warrior and someone who i find very cool to read about.

But i still think Karsa would have a pop at Iccy even if it was just to prove to himself, maybe not that he would win but at least he would try.

[Folken]

@Ivan - no reason to be honest. never liked him...too much bs imo.

[Wry]

I've no real strong feelings about him. I don't think he's an inspired character though, i think he's pretty stereotypical of the "beefy barbarian who shows hidden depths" that can be found in alot of fantasy. To be honest i don't think SE has any inspired characters - very likeable, but not inspired.

[philospher77]

I don't like Karsa. And, I can't say that I have seen that much growth in him. He's gotten wiser and smarter, yes. But I don't see much change in his underlying personality. He still thinks he's right, everyone else is pretty stupid, and if they want to argue about it, he's more than willing to beat them up and put them in their place. It's his unwillingness to consider that he might actually be wrong about something that makes me dislike him. He is, in my opinion, a very dangerous character because of that.

[Blend]

Except that he does accept that he was wrong... Take, for example, when he's talking to some random Malazans at the end of HOC and says to them that he was wrong to swear an oath to kill every last Malazan... That pretty much showed his understanding that he was wrong to so blindly swear an oath... And that he was wrong to think he could take out the Malazan Empire... And wrong that he judged an entire people by the actions of a few... I'd say he's pretty much come to terms with being wrong, and still doesn't care much about it... That's his charm, no?