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Where's the proof that it was Scabandari that killed Sorrit?
As for the warrens thing, Bottle used Thyr to create light under Y'Ghatan. That healer, was it Widdershins, also used Hoods warren. Not to mention the number of mages who can also heal (Denul). Tayschrenn using Thyr to quest isn't necessarily an inconsistency just because his warren is Telas. And the fact that Telas and Thyr are related makes it even more plausible.
It seems that sorcery can operate via different media...I mean, if you're a mage who happens to be a priest, you're probably a more powerful sorceror for the fact that you're a priest. I take Banaschar as an example. When he discovered that he was being followed, he mused that he would once have been able to dispatch his pursuer and determine who sent him/her. I took that to mean that he no longer had D'rek's blessing, and so was reduced to the limited Mockra we've seen him exercise. Even so, I still wonder about him arriving in Kartool from mage-driven winds. Seems like quite a feat.
Unless with the discovery of what happened to D'rek caused what remained of his abilities to lapse.
warrens- whos is whos?
#41
Monoch Ochem 
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Posted 21 June 2006 - 06:05 PM
"We greet you Jaghut."
#42
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 21 June 2006 - 06:45 PM
The stake that impaled Sorrit was Edur wood. And if her body was in KE that would explain why it "wandered" until reaching the Sky Keep.
And if it was an Edur deed, then I would totally assert that Scabby did it. I already made a crazy theory about it in the thread.
And if it was an Edur deed, then I would totally assert that Scabby did it. I already made a crazy theory about it in the thread.
#43
Boulder
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Posted 21 June 2006 - 10:52 PM
The Healer was Deadsmell, appropriately named enough. Not sure that we see him using it, someone just 'smells' it on him. Tho I think its Bottle who points out that nearly all the 14th's squad mages are Hood's warren or shadow...
Note also that Bottle uses Denul on Koryk's leg (well he heals it, i assume that takes denul). That makes at least 3 for him (Thyr, Rashan/Meanas and Denul, plus non-aspected spiritual stuff)
But that's nothing compared to Quick Ben who boasts 12 (tho he does have 12 souls to make up for it i guess)
Banaschar was sailing in one of Tayschrenn's ships, so maybe he supplied the winds?
Note also that Bottle uses Denul on Koryk's leg (well he heals it, i assume that takes denul). That makes at least 3 for him (Thyr, Rashan/Meanas and Denul, plus non-aspected spiritual stuff)
But that's nothing compared to Quick Ben who boasts 12 (tho he does have 12 souls to make up for it i guess)
Banaschar was sailing in one of Tayschrenn's ships, so maybe he supplied the winds?
#44
tiam
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 10:00 AM
yeh bottles an exception for havong the Eres with him.
Monoch Ochem- Its not fact that Scabby killed Sorrit but he was impaled by Edur blackwood and was killed in the Shadow Realm. Who else could kill him. Also theres a comment about he made the first wounding by spilling Draconian blood in Shadow
Monoch Ochem- Its not fact that Scabby killed Sorrit but he was impaled by Edur blackwood and was killed in the Shadow Realm. Who else could kill him. Also theres a comment about he made the first wounding by spilling Draconian blood in Shadow
#45
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 10:18 AM
the crucifix was blackwood... Sorrit was acutally impaled through the throat by an otataral spike.... and Sorrit's a she 
#48
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 01:45 PM
Therion said:
Re: Sorrit - In that context, can anyone think of a good reason why the corpse including crucifix and otataral spear would be aboard a KCN skykeep?
Mappo and Icarium debate this right there and then, and they (roughly) conclude that the fragment of warren she was killed in - and I think it was KE, but Icarium is not familiar with this warren as we saw in DG - drifted until it was caught by Ganath's preservation spell on the Sky Keep and anchored there from then on.
Whether this is the correct explanation is still to be found out, but it's the one the author puts in the mouth of his (admittedly highly unreliable) character.
#49
Monoch Ochem
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 03:39 PM
@ Boulder: Thanks- Deadsmell. Bottle more that smelled it, he confirmed that he was using Hood's warren after an initial suspicion. He even said that Deadsmell was a necromancer.
I don't specifically doubt that Scabandari killed Sorrit but it's not conclusive. It all points to Scabandari but it'd be an interesting twist if it wasn't him.
I don't specifically doubt that Scabandari killed Sorrit but it's not conclusive. It all points to Scabandari but it'd be an interesting twist if it wasn't him.
"We greet you Jaghut."
#50
Abyss
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 03:50 PM
But there are so many chunks of KE rolling around that it's difficult to be sure Scabby was the one responsible. Just thus far, we've seen the Nascent, Raraku/Whirlwind, an Azath House, Leth/Edur, Meanas and/or Rashan (which may just be the human aspected 'gate')...
We only 'know', seocnd hand, that Scabby murdered the Edur royal family, and broke the warren by shedding draconic blood. You could assume that those events were linked, ie: there was draconic blood in the Edur royal family, but it does seem as tho' Sorrit's death may have been the/a trigger.
- Abyss, thinks SE should title a book 'Warren Peace'.
We only 'know', seocnd hand, that Scabby murdered the Edur royal family, and broke the warren by shedding draconic blood. You could assume that those events were linked, ie: there was draconic blood in the Edur royal family, but it does seem as tho' Sorrit's death may have been the/a trigger.
- Abyss, thinks SE should title a book 'Warren Peace'.
THIS IS YOUR REMINDER THAT THERE IS A
'VIEW NEW CONTENT' BUTTON THAT
ALLOWS YOU TO VIEW NEW CONTENT
'VIEW NEW CONTENT' BUTTON THAT
ALLOWS YOU TO VIEW NEW CONTENT
#51
Monoch Ochem
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 04:00 PM
Don't think anyone would be much interested in the 'Peace' segment Abyss....it'd still be a lot more interesting that Tolstoy though!
But Sorrit was of Thyr, wasn't she? So she couldn't be a part of the Royal Edur line. When Silchas reminded Sabandari that the rivening of KE was brought about in part by his own hand, I think he was referring to the murders. We later discover that KE was shattered by many events...the spilling of draconean blood being one of them. Knowing when Sorrit was killed would help but we don't even know that.
It's weird...as Icarium or Mappo said, her death should have been felt. Why wasn't it? Can anyone think of possible hints in any of the other books which may have alluded to her death?
But Sorrit was of Thyr, wasn't she? So she couldn't be a part of the Royal Edur line. When Silchas reminded Sabandari that the rivening of KE was brought about in part by his own hand, I think he was referring to the murders. We later discover that KE was shattered by many events...the spilling of draconean blood being one of them. Knowing when Sorrit was killed would help but we don't even know that.
It's weird...as Icarium or Mappo said, her death should have been felt. Why wasn't it? Can anyone think of possible hints in any of the other books which may have alluded to her death?
"We greet you Jaghut."
#52
tiam
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 04:14 PM
Actually Sorrit was of Serc. Yes the rivening of KE was a number of events but the first wound was the spilling of draconian blood.
As for not being felt i think it was because Osserc was the other Draconian Serc soletaken and therefore Serc still exists so no one noticed Sorrits death
As for not being felt i think it was because Osserc was the other Draconian Serc soletaken and therefore Serc still exists so no one noticed Sorrits death
#53
Illuyankas
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 04:15 PM
Simple - it was felt. Just that, Mappo wasn't around, Iccy forgot, and everyone adjusted to the shock millenia ago.
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
#54
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 04:28 PM
Sorrit was Serc.
What links the killing of Sorrit with Scabandari is Eloth's words... and it's too much of a coincidence that it should be in the same book.
So the death of Sorrit happened a long long time ago and the fragment of KE has surfaced recently, possibly from another realm, considering Eloth's secondary remark "what did he think gates were".... hence Mappo and Icarium's not having sensed her death.
What links the killing of Sorrit with Scabandari is Eloth's words... and it's too much of a coincidence that it should be in the same book.
So the death of Sorrit happened a long long time ago and the fragment of KE has surfaced recently, possibly from another realm, considering Eloth's secondary remark "what did he think gates were".... hence Mappo and Icarium's not having sensed her death.
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 05:20 PM
Nope... Scabs did that all on his lonesome. And besides wounding a warren is dangerous and leaves it vulnerable.. they wouldn't want that.
#57
Monoch Ochem
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 05:54 PM
Icarium had some part to play in the sundering too, didn't he?
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#58
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 06:11 PM
Unknown. Icarium's insanity is traced to his failed attempt to free his father from the (now destroyed) Azath house on the Jhag Odhan, during which he damaged or destroyed (note the word "sunder" is not used) an unknown warren (fragment?) and was himself damaged in turn.
Since Gothos was still free at the time of MT prologue, and KE was already sundered, I don't think Icarium is in any way responsible for the original sundering of KE. I'm not even convinced Icarium is old enough to have been around for the sundering, though of course we don't really know.
We can safely lay blame for that with Scabby, though we know nothing about the circumstances, perhaps he did have good reason. Though Scabby had a different definition of "good" from most other people.
Since Gothos was still free at the time of MT prologue, and KE was already sundered, I don't think Icarium is in any way responsible for the original sundering of KE. I'm not even convinced Icarium is old enough to have been around for the sundering, though of course we don't really know.
We can safely lay blame for that with Scabby, though we know nothing about the circumstances, perhaps he did have good reason. Though Scabby had a different definition of "good" from most other people.
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 06:29 PM
There's an interesting thought... The Azath that Gothos entered, the one on the Jhag Odhan.... I wonder if it already existed, or whether it came into being because of Gothos... if you see what I mean, like the Finnest House? Must have been something going on around there because Phyrlis is pinned to the grounds of the house.
Anyway - back on topic..
didn't Tays say he had something to do with that? at the end of BH?
Anyway - back on topic..
Quote
I take Banaschar as an example. When he discovered that he was being followed, he mused that he would once have been able to dispatch his pursuer and determine who sent him/her. I took that to mean that he no longer had D'rek's blessing, and so was reduced to the limited Mockra we've seen him exercise. Even so, I still wonder about him arriving in Kartool from mage-driven winds. Seems like quite a feat.
didn't Tays say he had something to do with that? at the end of BH?
#60
Boulder
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Posted 22 June 2006 - 11:07 PM
He said it was his ship, not that it was his wind. Tho i'm fairly sure that is what he meant.
And if Banaschar forfieted his powers by leaving the sect doesn't that mean Tay should've lost his power when he got kicked out too? unless he was a HM as well as a HP all along
Just like Heboric, all three seem to have been thrown out by the other priests, not necessarily by the God. so Ban might still have his power but not realise and thus can't access it?
Still i guess Tay never truly left D'rek, just the priesthood (his convo with ST at the end of BH). Confusing myself now!
And if Banaschar forfieted his powers by leaving the sect doesn't that mean Tay should've lost his power when he got kicked out too? unless he was a HM as well as a HP all along
Just like Heboric, all three seem to have been thrown out by the other priests, not necessarily by the God. so Ban might still have his power but not realise and thus can't access it?
Still i guess Tay never truly left D'rek, just the priesthood (his convo with ST at the end of BH). Confusing myself now!
