[Cause]

I reckon we barely scratched the surface of icariums power. I think it would have kept on building for a long time

[Murrin]

I get the sense that Icarium pities the Gral in that last scene. There is no need. No need for his anger, his bitterness. No need for him to be like this. You do not understand. Taralack isn't happy, he doesn't like what he is or what he does, though he doesn't let himself realise it - except, perhaps, in that moment of weakness, that moment in the ravine when he sees what he is going to unleash. There is no need.

[Malarion]

Everyone seems to be making a big deal of how Karsa beat the Deragoth in HOC. I think we're all forgetting that it was only TWO Deragoth that he fought, and that he was still pretty much beat up himself at the end. All seven combined would have made lunch of him.

I think with Icarium its all a matter of getting in with an early strike. One unexpected thrust of Anomanders swords and the wagon now has one pretty mighty mule.

As for an earlier comment on the constant reassessment of character powers, I'm in agreement. In GOTM, the Jaghut Tyrant was pretty much the man, with Rake only prepared to fight him once the Dragon soletaken and Silanah had softened him up. But since then it seems character after character appears that has similar, if not more, power.
The Deragoth are also a good example of this. They kept the Matrons away from an entire continent themselves, and yet have shown themselves vulnerable to mere sword attacks.
It can be a bit confusing, but I reckon its done to stop us working out who's going to be last-man-standing.

[Murrin]

Hikkie - I was fully aware of the context of the quote.

And what I meant was that Icarium could tell that Taralack was not entirely happy in his role. The context doesn't matter - he's very intelligent and perceptive, and could see what Taralack was going through even if he didn't understand it. Iccy's always been very considerate of others even though he has his own concerns. Which is backed up by the part you added there, where Taralack is feeling unwell and Iccy knows it's more spiritual/intellectual than physical.

[Red_orbiT]

About the deragoth- It was mentioned that the deragoth were almost extinct when dessimbelackis made his contract with them. It was likely a large number of them keeping the matrons away.

Iccy being hit by anomanders sword- This could be real amusing. Iccy wakes up in chains. "Where am I? I feel refreshed? Oh, look at all my old friends, I must help them with this burden." Iccy carries everyone else on the wagon on his shoulder, a dragon or two tucked in under his other arm. Later, when the darkness finally reaches the wagon: "No, I will not let the darkness hurt my friends." Iccy rages and kills the darkness(Iccy can kill anything). Then he kills everyone else on the wagon. Then he brakes Dragnipur. Wakes up next to the shocked owner: "Hello! I feel refreshed! I believe I will finally find out who I am now! Are you my friend?"
...
Poor Iccy.

[tiam]

yes there were many deragoth keeping away the matrons and the KCCM. dessimbelackis made contact with the last 7.

As for taralack veed maybe at theend of BH he understands how taralack felt thats why he caled him old friend. doesnt Veed just want money to get his old clan back. maybe thats why iccy pities him. or maybe he just felt sorry for him. i do beleive that iccy has his memories back. that eres toucj did more than calm him down

[Agraba]

I know who can beat Icarium. The same guy who beat Raest. Fiddler.

His sorcerous shield isn't going to protect him from a mundane blast. And he will most definately deflect the cusser with his sword, which is the moment he becomes history.

[Lister of Smeg]

It was Hedge that beat Raest, actually. With a little help from an Azath. Raest seemed to be recovering from the blast when the Azath took him, so I'm not sure how much damage it would do to Icarium. Then again, they say something bad happens when you mix munitions with magic, so it could be the biggest blast yet.

[Agraba]

You sure it was Hedge? I remember it being one of the two. Oh well.

And Raest knows the magic of keeping his absolutely ripped up body intact, which probably requires lots of intricate carefulness rather than power, which is why he needed to be imprisoned instead of killed. Can Icarium really do that? And while he's in a blind rage?

[Abyss]

Couple of thoughts...

- right off the bat, it's blindlingly obvious that in any fight between Iccy, Karsa and Rake, Wolverine will win .

- It was actually Cotillion who suggested to Mappo that Iccy's madness was chaos-born. And wouldn't it be interesting if the Eres had cured him, and therefore he was no longer the all-shredding powerhouse he has been. Not that i actually think he's 'cured' - maybe on the path to it, but if all it took was a tap from the Eres to fix Iccy, i doubt he'd have spent the last few thousand years wandering around shredding peoples at random. But he seems more at peace, and I wonder how that will affect his beng unleashed on Rhulad and co.

- As for Trull, he's been thru a fair bit, including being the focus for Shadow magic (end of MT), quality time in the magic-messed-up Nascent, gettin' his freak on in a 'time bubble' with a time travelling Eres witch, blood bound to an Ritual-free I'mass warrior/former bonecaster, and been the direct participant in some sort of warren gate opening ritual thingy involving at least two elder warrens (all in HoC, and you think YOU had a bad day....)... then in TB spent an unknown amount of time fighting Letherii and Edur and being healed by a god, Shadowthrone, while Minala, a servant of Shadow herself, prays for him not to die in combat... the dude was like SCREAMING for ascension, even before he found himself nobly defending a bunch of (shadow-sworn) children from the mad-flesh-shredding-jhag-killing-machine-that-is-Icarium. So there he is, I'mass bonecaster invested weapon in hand, the last thing stopping the kids from becoming shadow-slaw... and bingo, his mojo starts working overtime. And it wasn't enough to stop Iccy, but it was enough for him to move beyond baseline Edur, and be reflected in the Deck.


- Abyss, avoided babysitting for this reason.

[Tempo]

[QUOTE=Malarion]Everyone seems to be making a big deal of how Karsa beat the Deragoth in HOC. I think we're all forgetting that it was only TWO Deragoth that he fought, and that he was still pretty much beat up himself at the end. All seven combined would have made lunch of him.

QUOTE]

I had a big problem with Karsa beating the two deragoth, namely that the same two deragoth seemed to have little trouble dealing with FIVE Azalan demons.....

If only one azalan can kill hundred of people in the space of "heartbeats", then they must be pretty damn fast and powerfull, yet the Deragoth dealt with them pretty quickly, only to lose to someone who at the end of the day, is just a big guy.

[Dolorous Menhir]

That's been pointed out here before...it is a good point, and the only response seems to be to say that, rather than a contradiction, it's just proof of how insanely powerful Karsa is.

Or you might talk in terms of vulnerabilities. Humans are very vulnerable to Azalans, which are in turn weak against Deragoth. But the Deragoth, though strong with respect to the Azalans, are bested when set against Karsa. If you argue that way, then

Azalan>>humans
Deragoth>Azalan
Karsa>Deragoth

does not necessarily require a contradiction.

[Abyss]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but weren't there a bunch of dead azalans as a result of ST setting them to protect the Elder Shadow Throne on Avalii.

Because they were facing 'mere' Edur and Letherii, not ascended Toblakai.

- Abyss, 'merely'.

[dktorode]

weve only seen now what iccy can do!
I think that his abilities will be used for something a bit bigger than wat happened at the end of BH !
for SE to set all this up and then have him cured and useless all of the sudden...well that would be pointless!
I think he always went berserker as thats how he killed the azath and in killing the azath he now losses his memory everytime he does it!
i get the feeling some people believe he got this rage from destroying an azath but then how did he destroy the azath in the first place!
he's a miystery...i guess ill just have to wait and bloody see....meh!!!

[Morgoth]

Icarium was powerfull no matter, the rage did not make him powerfull.. However, the damage given him by the Azath made it so his full power unlocks with his rage. Or so that's my theory..

Icarium could unlock his power at will, now he's only able when he is in kill mode

[Asandir]

go point
remember gethol mentioning in MoI after getting dumped by Hood about goin into a rage but he thought he couldn quiet cut it.Well in Iccy's case he can cut it cutit very damn well

[tiam]

the men the azalan killed were asleep. Gethol being of pure blood would surely have a more powerful wrath then a half blood. apart from iccy whos other half is not of normal standards.

As for trulll id say if gesler go through a warren of fire then have some other magical contact the trull definitely should be ascended or close enway