[fan_83]

that could be true.. but the thing is with him being the god of the dead, we can assume that he has no idea how many imass are still moving around and thus don;t dare go after them...

but the thing is there hsould be around 20 plus bonecaster left at least among the imass and form what we know, they are all the equivilant to archmages at least... as the older they are the more powerful they get... so doubtful if hood will ever go after the imass in any way of form....

[GingerBreadMan]

My belief is that Hood doesnt care about the Avowed, he seems patient enough and smart enough to understand they will eventually come to him. Besides, due to their vows I would venture a guess that they have sent a very large number of souls his way. Overall he has come out on top if your going by the number of souls he gets.

As far as Hoods knowledge goes, I would guess he knows as much about the number of Imass as any other god. Hood is smart, he understands power, and he understands risk vs reward. He wont go after the Imass simply because doing so would likely cost him more than it would benefit him. As far as pulling his servant back, would you want your servant to get you into trouble witha group like the Imass without your consent? His servant was going to get him into trouble, which he didnt want for previously stated reasons. Hood may still go after the Imass, though I doubt it, but if he did it would certainly be a well planned event not a spur of the moment thing.

[Urko Crust]

following the revelation of the soldier of death and his statement that it was impossible for mammot to be crokus uncle does anybody else think it possible that crokus is Colls son?

[Urko Crust]

So, who are crokus parents? it is clearly not Coll, but there must be something important about him to be raised by one of the most powerful and long lived mages on genabackis. i doubt mammot just got lonely and sentimental.

[Ivan the terrible]

1 Hood patiant God but he has a temper,

2 It is understandable that he would dislike even hate the avowed

3 Seguleh first is probably an Ascendent

4 The Soldier of Death is undead

5 We don't know who or what killed him
It might have been betrayal and not a fair honour bound and witnessed duel. Hence he is still the second

6 Krul mentions his long period of Absence this would make sense considering he doesn't know about the island nation.

7 The seguleh have existed as a recognised even legendary group for a long period of time

8 three are are deemed sufficient to destroy the pannion domin. Mok can defeat tool hence the first is a serious badass. This alone gives the first standing alongside Rake Dassem and Brys

9 It is safe to assume that the second would keep his position if his death was unconfirmed, or indeed if he was an ascendent.

10 Here is something to consider what if the avowed were sworn to hood and betrayed him gaining life without the possibility of death as a reward, this would explain Sandalath Drukorlats' pity
Your thoughts please

[Imperial Historian]

Crokus' parentage is curious... we never meet Crokus' parents and as far as I recall they are never mentioned at all... which is somewhat odd, Mammot is clearly his gaurdian but why...

He is also considered important, Oponn, Hood, Cotillion, are among the god's who've shown interest in him, and it seems he's going to be a critical character in Darjhustan's future.

The only clue we have of Crokus' parents is that Mammot and crokus' friends seem to consider it perfectly natural that he take his place as a leading figure in darjhustan society...

Mammot refers to Crokus as his nephew, and he is known to Baruk though seemingly not well, as he last met him a few years back and barely remembers his name... but Baruk is greatly worried when he learns Crokus is in danger.

The significance of this... well I have no idea, he's clearly important, but not important enough to be remember by Baruk, my best guess is that he was adopted by Mammot as he recognised his potential for future importance and is not in fact related to him, and that his parents were important nobles in Darjhustan society... but thats just a guess.

[Urko Crust]

@imperial historian. if i understand point ten you are saying that prior to the imperial period the royal family of Unta were sworn to hood. possible and interesting, but the most powerful in a nation sworn to hood would be formidible, how much would they gain from the Vow.
i think it likely that the second is hunting skinner for personal reasons, he never says he is hunting the avowed, only skinner

[Dolorous Menhir]

I don't think the Soldier of Death would get to do stuff like that "for personal reasons." I doubt that undead servants of Hood, the God of Death, are permitted that much independence. And if you accept that, then it becomes highly unlikely that the Avowed are sworn to Hood, since why would he need to send one servant after another? He could just revoke the Vow, or withdraw his patronage, and that would be that.

As for Crokus' parentage, that's an interesting thought, strange that no-one ever mentions them and Crokus/Cutter never even seems to think about them. I would assume they were Daru natives though, as it's never noted that Crokus is not of Daru descent. The whole storyline of the Coin Bearer in GotM remains nebulous to me, he never seems to do anything with the coin, or merit the attention that so many direct towards him throughout the book. I don't think he was in any way important, outside of Mammot's social aspirations, at least before Oponn chose to give him the Coin.

[tjc52]

none of oponns chosen ever seem to do very much. Crokus, and now Corabb Bhilan Thenulas. Both just seem to be present at major events, and affect them in very minor ways. The most major thing they've done between them was throwing a brick at Vorcan, who was almost done in by Serrat anyway.

[Urko Crust]

okay, so assume hood is a restrictive master. why would hood want to catch the avowed. they probably werent sworn to him so no betrayal angle. as has been pointed out there are many longlived people that hood tolerates e.g. the bridgeburners, assorted mages (kellanved, tattersail). there must be some insult delivered to hood other than being long lived.


Here is a cliche for crokus parents: he is the great great great great etc grandson of the Tyrant, raised in ignorance to fullfill his birthright etc etc etc. I would be disappointed in SE but even he is not infallable.
Anybody got any ideas on the Cabals relationship with the Tyrant for/against?

[Dolorous Menhir]

I think you are failing to see a distinction between people who are very long-lived (ie the BB's) and people who have undergone a ritual to defy death (the Avowed).

Mages may live for a long time, but that is, in a way, the natural order of things. The Avowed have contrived to NOT DIE until Prince d'Avore is returned to his lands. This is the offence against Hood, and this is presumably what he seeks to punish them for.

[Urko Crust]

Good point. although if you can not die by vowing to do something why isnt every one vowing to turn rocks to cheese or something

[Set'alahd Crool]

One would assume there was a ritual of some sort that went with the vow. Some high mage(Cowl?) employing his arts to make the vow more than a vow.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Plus we have Drukorlat's horrified reaction as evidence that the Vow involved something really unpleasant, that we've yet to see explicitly.

It's natural to think there must be a serious downside or difficulty barrier to becoming an Avowed, or people would be doing it all over the place. Something bad enough to shock a Tiste Andii.

[Abyss]

Curiously, I havn't spotted the suggestion that the Tyrant in question was Raest... a Jaghut Tyrant who was buried just outside the city.

Back in his Tyrant days, he set up a warrior society to provide him with soldiers, and a group of mages as his chancellors or what have you. And the traditions outlasted him, to become the Seguleh and the Cabal.

Sure, Raest's worshippers might have been Imass, but the Imass and humans coexisted, so Raest's people could have as easily been human.

Consider Tool's notion that the First Sword must be the best, leading to his eventual conflict with Mok in MoI. Interesting parallel to how some think Seguleh society must operate.

As for the Soldier of Death, i suspect that the only thing which is clear is that at some point in the past, he was Second. Whether or not he's the same Second we're told in MoI is 'on sabattical' is up for debate.

- Abyss, thinks Hood shouldn't find a better matchmaker.

[majander]

Abyss said:

Back in his Tyrant days, he set up a warrior society to provide him with soldiers, and a group of mages as his chancellors or what have you. And the traditions outlasted him, to become the Seguleh and the Cabal.

Interesting point, and it might explain one minor detail from GotM that has always puzzled me - why Mammot turned up at the Fete in a Jaghut Mask...

[Set'alahd Crool]

The "Tyrant" mentioned by the 2nd once ruled darujhistan, a city that was built by people looking fo Raest's tomb and all its riches. A bit tough to rule a city that your demise caused to be.

Mammot wore the mask ecause he had quested into Raest's tomb while the jaghut was awakening, thus creating a link between himself and Raest. The same link that made him vulnerable to posession. He may not have been unaware of it himself, but after temporarily losing himself in the tomb he belonged to Raest.

I think.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Mammot was under Raest's control from the point he woke from the coma that "travelling" to the crypt put him in. This is why Rake departed so suddenly when Mammot awoke and came through to talk to Baruk. He sensed that Raest had Mammot, but for some reason he didn't tell Baruk then, perhaps because he didn't want to start a fight right there or because he though Baruk wouldn't believe him.

This isn't really obvious, but after a reread Rake & Mammot's action from that meeting onward make a lot more sense if this is the case.

That's why Mammot wore the Jaghut mask, because Raest was controlling him, it fits with the sense of humour we see in Raest once him and Paran become roomies in the Finnest House, which is best described as "dessicated".

[Abyss]

@Set': the legend goes that Darujhistan was built for that purpose, but we see in 7C more than once that cities are built on top of cities on top of cities. Darujhistan is probably just the most recent version. After all, the seguleh left at some point, and presumably if the Tyrant in question is Raest, the Cabal returned either to plan for or against his return.

- Abyss, has a basement storage space like that.