[Abyss]

Iirc, 'Whiskeyjack' is another name for the Bluejay, who is a notorious nest thief and agressive bird prone to taking things from other birds, including bigger ones.

- Abyss, notes 'Lagerjack', 'Khaluajack' and 'Tequilajack' lacked that certain something...

[Dolorous Menhir]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray_Jay

Hence "Bird That Steals".

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Wisakedjak

The guy who complained about the name sounding too American was more right than he realised. Unless he meant Native American.

[Skywalker]

Dolorous Menhir;231166 said:

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Wisakedjak

The guy who complained about the name sounding too American was more right than he realised. Unless he meant Native American.

Nice nugget of information on that second page, DM: Wisakedjak is featured in the book American Gods by Neil Gaiman, where he is frequently referred to as "Whiskey Jack" as a corruption of the name.

American Gods put across the concept of a god's power waning when his worshippers decline in number. Someone should ask SE about its influence on MBoTF...

[Dolorous Menhir]

sky_walker;231173 said:

American Gods put across the concept of a god's power waning when his worshippers decline in number. Someone should ask SE about its influence on MBoTF...

It was released in 2001 though. GotM & DG were already out, and MoI came out that same year.

[Aptorian]

Also compared to a fantasy universe like Eriksons, the gods of Neil Gaimans story are pants. A good story but I really thought the whole old gods in disguise thing needed more attention.

[Abyss]

sky_walker;231173 said:

...American Gods put across the concept of a god's power waning when his worshippers decline in number. Someone should ask SE about its influence on MBoTF...

It's hardly a novel idea in fantasy lit. Go back to the pulps and you'll find gods being wrecked because someone or other wiped out their followers. AMERICAN GODS was interesting because Gaiman framed it in a modern context (which he had done before in his SANDMAN stuff, btw). SE takes yet a different approach exploring the actual relationship between gods and their followers, including how the god sees it (see Drek wiping out its own followers to avoid doing what they want).

- Abyss, wants his followers to want him to have more money! and a porsche!!!

[Coco with marshmallows]

also, Small Gods by pratchett used the idea years ago too. As Abyss says, it's not new

[Mentalist]

umm... well, wouldn't WJ had gotten his name from Braven Tooth, like the rest of the Malazan army? same would got for Dunsparrow... The fact that he named them as birds would have something to do with character siilarities?

[Lister of Smeg]

Was Dunsparrow ever a member of the Malazan army? Not so far as I remember, so Braven Tooth wouldn't have had the chance to name her.

As for Whiskeyjack, weren't he and Dujek around in the Empire for a long time? Possibly before BT came along.

[Mentalist]

We dunno enough about Dunsparrow... Just how did she end up in 7C?

As for Braven Tooth--once again, timeline discrepancies come into play.. We know Dujek was part of the Family, but I don't think WJ was....

[Dolorous Menhir]

This is a conflicting timeline issue, we're not going to get anywhere with it.

My impression, Whiskeyjack wasn't named by Braven Tooth. It's probably his real name. I can't remember any point when we were told it wasn't.

[Fiddler]

Well, we can now move on to something we'll all not agree on just as vociferously...

If Mammot was Cutter's uncle, then who really is Cutter? and why would such an ancient mage take such an interest in a moonlighting street urchin? I think it's because Cutter is a child of some ascendant or has been groomed to bring Apsalar back to liking humanity when she has to replace Cotillion as The Patron of Assassins. Oh wait, yeah you need to know, Cotillion will die at some point and Apsalar will replace him. Anyways, my imperfect ideas, have at them compadres!

[Aptorian]

The theory goes that Crokus is related to royalty through which he will be releated to the old Tyrant that we might see return in TtH.

This will also set him up nicely for a reunion with chalice who spurned him in GotM, but if he's royalty he might get his chance.

[Mentalist]

And then Apsalar will have to knife her...
Meh, how would you put this in tragedy concept, and not make it look to obvious?

[Dancer+]

Not possible. [CRAZY THEORY] Unless Apsalar absolutely loves her and respects her new love for cutter and somehow she dies because some mad puppet puts her in an Kallor suit and Apsalar doesn't realise.

Quick with Knives, but not so with mind.

That's right, Apsalar is after Kallor and instead of a Kallor death that everyone is so hoping for, it will be a Chalice death [/CRAZY THEORY]

[Aptorian]

To me her actions in BH suggested that she indeed has moved on. She seemed to have been romantically interested in both Cotillion and Paran.

[Mentalist]

Her convo with Squint makes me think otherwise....
It was a classic "I now reaize what i've lost and my go and find again" moment...

[Fiddler]

I think she'll exit the plotline for two more books and come back in as the replacement for cotillion when he gets killed by dunh dunh DUNNNNHHH!!!

Cotillion will die by Icarium's hand trying to defend Crokus/Cutter and co.

Just because Every moment of hard fought battle in BH was Cotillion avoiding that conflict in such earnest that the end scene was him with his head in his hands feeling guilty over all those dead children.

[wintermute]

Apsalar didn't seem romantically interested in Paran, it seemed more like she respected him. Cotillion, you could see some possible romantic feeling, but it would be a little strange with the whole possession thing. Besides, the Squint conversation makes it abundantly clear that she still loves Cutter.

Theory: Cutter is actually Cotillion's son, which is why Cotillion cares about him so much. Apsalar will meet up with Cutter and say something along the lines of she loves Crokus, not Cutter, thus allowing Cutter to return to Crokus, which is a much better name.

[Skywalker]

wintermute;239406 said:

Theory: Cutter is actually Cotillion's son, which is why Cotillion cares about him so much. Apsalar will meet up with Cutter and say something along the lines of she loves Crokus, not Cutter, thus allowing Cutter to return to Crokus, which is a much better name.

Don't think so... When Cotillion was possessing Sorry (waaay back in GoTM) he was pretty intent on killing Crokus/ Cutter.