Malazan Empire: *Spoilers* - Crazy Theories II - Malazan Empire

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*Spoilers* - Crazy Theories II

#201 User is offline   Dolorous Menhir 

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 12:08 AM

Well, I thought he possessed Mammot from the moment Mammot fell under his spell while "questing" over the burial region.

He didn't physically switch into Mammot's body until a few pages after he met Kruppe, but it seems clear that he controlled Mammot from an earlier point, the point when Mammot was in the mysterious coma in Baruk's house. Rake's reaction when Mammot woke, upon a reread, indicates that Rake knew Mammot had fallen to the Tyrant by that point, and I would assume Raest ransacked his mind immediately upon doing so.
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#202 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 01:10 PM

Hmmm... then we could fairly say that he had Mammot enslaved, but may not have plundered his mind, or else he would have known more.

Unless Mammot was sheilding himself somehow - he was a High Priest of D'rek, after all. Those dudes tend to be decently powerful, at leats up til the point when they piss their god(dess) off.

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#203 User is offline   Dolorous Menhir 

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 01:34 PM

I wanted to quote the passage where it appears Rake knew about Mammot's enslavement, to justify what I said.

Gardens of the Moon, on page 579, said:

[Mammot has just awoken from his coma, and has spoken to Baruk about his escape from that coma, and his nephew Crokus, the Coin Bearer. Up until now Rake has not acted suspiciously towards Mammot]

Standing to one side, his charcoal-grey eyes fixed intently on Mammot, Rake said, in a strangely flat tone, "Mammot, forgive me for interrupting. Will you be attending Lady Simtal's Fete?"

The old man nodded easily. "Of course."

"Very good," Rake said, with something like anticipation. He pulled his leather gloves from his belt. "We'll speak then."

Baruk had no time to think about Rake's sudden departure. It was his first mistake of the day.


I think from this point onwards Mammot was under Raest's spell. Rake knew, but he also knew that it would do no good to tell Baruk then, for how could he convince him?

Note also that Mammot wore a Jaghut mask to the ball, I think this was our first exposure to Raest's sense of humour. Or perhaps just SE laying a very unsubtle hint.
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#204 User is offline   GardenGnome 

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Posted 17 November 2006 - 07:45 PM

I allways thought the mask was like a private joke between Mammot and Baruk - they both know of the Jaghut outside the city, and what danger it poses to the city.
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#205 User is offline   Onrack the breakable 

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Posted 18 November 2006 - 09:11 PM

Dang, I missed most of the Raest stuff but that did get me thinking of another REAL wild theory.

Question. Who is the Tyrant of Darujistan? The soldier of death refered to his impending return. He couldn't be referring to Raest because hes now permanently in Darujistan.

Now here is another masterpiece of a wild theory. Who was out of town during this timeframe? Yes, you guessed it. The Tyrant of Darujistan is none other than Kruppe!!
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#206 User is offline   Dolorous Menhir 

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 01:33 AM

The Tyrant (Kings) of Darujhistan can't be Raest. There was no Darujhistan when he was around, since the city was "born of the rumour" that the burial site of a powerful being (Raest) was nearby.

I think they must've been humans (or, if the Seguleh aren't human, the Tyrants may have been whatever they are).

But I don't think Kruppe is an ascendant or a particularly old person. I couldn't say off the top of my head how long the Tyrant Kings had been absent for Darujhistan, but it wasn't an insignificant period of time, and I think Kruppe has lived no more than a normal human lifetime, with perhaps a bit of extra magely longevity.

Plus Kruppe is the last possible person I would associate with the name "Tyrant King", wouldn't you think?

GardenGnome;135915 said:

I allways thought the mask was like a private joke between Mammot and Baruk - they both know of the Jaghut outside the city, and what danger it poses to the city.


I'll have to check that, but I don't think it was a joke between Mammot & Baruk. Mammot was under Raest's control by then, and I think Raest chose that mask for fun.
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#207 Guest_DelumThord_*

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 07:39 AM

What if this "Tyrant" isnt a single person at all , but instead, an empire. Perhaps led by what the Soldier of Death would perceive as a Tyrant......

Wouldn't it be logical to assume that Hood and the Soldier of Death knew eachother prior to the "Second of the Segluth" Ascending?......What did the Second do to earn his ascension in hoods eyes? I mean it had to have been quite the amazing event, just look at what Baudin had to go through in order to achieve his ascension. Why was hood not collecting souls over where the letherians and Edur live? They only just recently got a House of Azath(death aspected)

Didn't Daseem Ultor have some kinda pact with hood?

* just a side note. I honestly think that Karsa and Rhuald are gonna hit it off, I mean they apparently are in the same House even though Karsa keeps denying it

God I love this series......so many crazy things going on.
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#208 User is offline   Dolorous Menhir 

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 01:00 PM

DelumThord;136395 said:

What if this "Tyrant" isnt a single person at all , but instead, an empire. Perhaps led by what the Soldier of Death would perceive as a Tyrant......


The Tyrants were a line of Kings of Darujhistan, we saw ample evidence in Darujhistan during GotM that it had once been ruled by the Tyrant Kings.

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Wouldn't it be logical to assume that Hood and the Soldier of Death knew eachother prior to the "Second of the Segluth" Ascending?


Well, Hood must've known the Soldier, but not vice versa. Just as Baudin didn't know Hood before he was taken, and Rellock did not know Hood before Hood collected his soul in person.

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What did the Second do to earn his ascension in hoods eyes? I mean it had to have been quite the amazing event, just look at what Baudin had to go through in order to achieve his ascension.


We don't know at the moment. But we've seen what Seguleh are capable of, perhaps the Soldier took on a whole army alone or something similar.

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Why was hood not collecting souls over where the letherians and Edur live? They only just recently got a House of Azath(death aspected)


Gothos' Ritual - from the MT prologue - stopped true death on the continent of Lether. This is why the cursing of Shurq Ellale (and others) to remain with their bodies after death was possible. This is why the Andii shades remained under Edur control (I believe). This is why so many ghosts were available to storm the Tolls (or whatever the Stock Exchange equivalent was called). This is why Kettle was possible (the dead girl returning to life). This is presumably why the Edur possessed the magic to create the living heads on the Silanda. This is why Hood was not able to collect the souls of the dead. None of these things have been seen to occur outside Lether.

Death was not the same on Lether.

They didn't just get a House of the Azath, they just lost their House - it died in MT. And since its existence seemed to be tied with Gothos' Ritual for some reason, when it died the Ritual ended too (it appeared to be Jaghut-linked, it was surrounded by Jaghut towers but was not like them. Also, Hood occupied the Throne of the Hold of Ice in Lether, I don't believe this is a coincidence). At the end of MT, Hood was moving in to assert his status of King of HHDeath over Lether too. What this means for curses like Shurq's, I don't know, but Hood will be taking souls there from now on.

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Didn't Daseem Ultor have some kinda pact with hood?


Not a pact, he was sworn to Hood, and held the position of Knight of HHDeath.

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* just a side note. I honestly think that Karsa and Rhuald are gonna hit it off, I mean they apparently are in the same House even though Karsa keeps denying it


Um, yeah, those two have really compatible personalities. I'm sure the crazy unkillable warrior-Emperor and the unbeatable & insanely arrogant giant Teblor will just put aside their differences and talk about fishing.

And are you forgetting what happened to most of the other people in HHChains? Karsa killed them!

Membership of that House is like having a "kill me!" sign on your back as far as Karsa is concerned.
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#209 User is offline   Onrack the breakable 

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Posted 19 November 2006 - 03:01 PM

Dolorous Menhir;136388 said:

...Plus Kruppe is the last possible person I would associate with the name "Tyrant King", wouldn't you think?



Nonsense. Its in his blood.
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Posted 21 November 2006 - 04:34 AM

Why did Fiddler play his fiddler? what was the point? Granted it was a beautiful moment in his story line but did him playing have any other significance?
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Posted 21 November 2006 - 05:02 AM

I believe that Karsa will save Rhuald from himself
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#212 User is offline   Dolorous Menhir 

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 01:47 PM

DelumThord;137138 said:

Why did Fiddler play his fiddler? what was the point? Granted it was a beautiful moment in his story line but did him playing have any other significance?


I think it was just a remembrance of friends lost. Perhaps not significant to the storyline, but significant to the veterans.

It was heard all over Malaz City though (or perhaps just by Bridgeburners & Bonehunters around the city, not sure) so might have had an impact somehow. May also be related to the song of the Bridgeburners.

DelumThord;137139 said:

I believe that Karsa will save Rhuald from himself


...by killing him.
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Posted 24 November 2006 - 01:23 AM

What house are the BridgeBurners in? Do they now work for Treach? or are they aspected to shadow some how cuz of the pocket of the shadow warren that is overlaid on to Raraku?
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#214 User is offline   Onrack the breakable 

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Posted 26 November 2006 - 03:41 AM

DelumThord;138180 said:

What house are the BridgeBurners in? Do they now work for Treach? or are they aspected to shadow some how cuz of the pocket of the shadow warren that is overlaid on to Raraku?



This was explained before or in Fiddler's card game, although things may clarify or even change completely later on. Basically, the BridgeBurners are in the House of War as the Guardians of the Dead (forgot the page- part of this new classification seems due to Hedge or Wedgie or whoever wandering loose in Hoods cellar after freeing the Deragoth for Ganoes). Also in the house of war are Tog & Fanderay - Lords of War (ruling card), mercenary- unknown, Icarium-Lifeslayer, Chained God- Deathslayer, The Soldier/Army- unknown, and Treach - Hunter.

It also seems that Quick Ben's sister will become the consort in Chains and possibly also in the house of war since upon recovering she mentions seeing a wolf. Ganoes says something like, "that was a hound of shadow". And she says something like, "it was the lovliest, sweetest wolf in the world"- which makes me think Fanderay might have given her a job interview. Thats pure speculation tho.

None of the houses seem to be even partly filled, but if anything the House of War seems to have jumped ahead of all the rest. Of course Togg and Fanderay were "elder gods" when the elder gods were still young so its no suprise that they get their act together so soon. I'm expecting the other houses to at least fill up a bit more.

But for some odd reason the other houses seem to be run more like dictatorships and the one big shot in each isn't very interested in any competition or differing viewpoints. Nearly every other house is mostly empty. The House of Chains is another exception but that seems due to it being started free of a ruling dictator. The Chained God basically just made it up then cast it out, giving it some help here and there but mostly letting it run itself.

None of this is crazy enough to be a crazy theory tho. How bout this?

Sergeant Hellian is actually D'rek in disguise. Or at the least something of a favorite.
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#215 User is offline   tiam 

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Posted 26 November 2006 - 10:18 AM

Yes they are run like dictatorships but i feel as though the houses are all filled. If you think Hoods was full in MOI (almost full) so i think there all full we just dont know of anyone yet. We neverknew the Soldier of HHD existed and he just turned up and left
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#216 User is offline   Blind 

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Posted 26 November 2006 - 02:29 PM

Onrack the breakable;138617 said:

And she says something like, "it was the lovliest, sweetest wolf in the world"- which makes me think Fanderay might have given her a job interview. Thats pure speculation tho.


I thought that the sweet wolf was a reference to Quick Ben ; he used a toy wolf to torment her when they were children. She says that because she knows he helped her.
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Posted 26 November 2006 - 02:50 PM

Agrees with Blind about the wolf.

I don't see QB's sister being consort in chains at all.
She was left with Soliel iirc?
After what happened to her sister I don't see Soliel messing with the CG.. or anyone near her for that matter.

With reference to the House of War.... I wouldn't take those as being *fixed*. Fiddler himself says he doesn't think it's settled yet .
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#218 Guest_DelumThord_*

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Posted 26 November 2006 - 09:00 PM

WhiskeyJack is Mason in High House Death:eek:
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#219 User is offline   Dolorous Menhir 

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Posted 26 November 2006 - 11:05 PM

Well, he certainly was during part of GotM. After that, and now that he's dead...who knows? Being dead (or whatever Whiskeyjack is now) is not an impediment to being in HHDeath after all.
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#220 User is offline   Oceao 

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Posted 27 November 2006 - 01:17 AM

Mallick Rel will actually turn out to be a good guy
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