[Dolorous Menhir]

tiam said:

The reference (havnt got a page number sorry) but its in HOC when Trull and the imass are walking to the first throne. When talking about these barriers of death they say it was before Hood.

Thanks Tiam - if this is good info (and I think we can consider Monok Ochem reliable in such matters) then this agrees well with Hood as a Jaghut living before the Ritual, who became King of HHDeath at some point post-Ritual.

[tiam]

yeh i completely agree that the evidneece (gethols comment Raests POV, realm of death icy and cold in MT etc) that Hood is Jaghut is stacked completely in favour of this. I cant honestly see anything to disprove this apart from Se ability to change predictions and being crafty

[Dinivan]

Well, for the basic theory i'd agree

-but, basically you get only in a house if your displaying something worth recognised and therefore you get as a 'reward' a position in a house, maybe even if you're reluctant to accept. I think that holding a position in the Fatid just implies some importance of the person - wether because of an important role, action, power, cunning or something else. This points also favour ascension. My slight worry is that ascendency is something very flexible and way to ascension seems to me even more shifty and undefined, so that nearly every remarkable character could included in the 'way to the ascension' group.

Secondly, sorry if this is too silly for me to ask, where did you get the names and the fitting role?
It seems to me that they are from some Card readings, and i thought it's general consensus that appearing as one card in a reading (or a series of readings in a short period of time) does not imply actually having the position, not even briefly. So i'd have said that Apsalar may have appeard as virgin of HHD but never been it in fact. And i can't imagine WJ being the stonemason either. More sound i think is Fiddler as a Soldier of HHL, but that's just feeling.

[Dark Mac]

Hetan said:

The Apsalar bit came from Tattersail's reading of the deck in GotM.. and thats pretty undisputed......the same of Whiskeyjack, who was once a stonemason.

Undisputed? I've only been here for a few months, but I've never seen anyone actually say that Apsalar is the Virgin of HHD. It just doesn't make any sense, since at that time she's still possessed by the Rope, who belongs to HHS. Hell, in the next book we see Kalam as the Assassin of Shadow, but I don't see anybody saying that he's replaced Cotillion.

[tiam]

Also i dont beleive that these DOD readings actually apply to the relevant houses. For example im in the middle of a reread of Dg and kalam has just delivered the Book of Dryjna into Shaiks hands. He then comments on whether DOD readers will see a new Herald of Death. But this cannot refer to the actual position as we all know Gethol had that role at this time. I dont beleive that they actually have the role. Like (also in DG) when Kalams in Ladro Keep and the woman throws the DOD at him he becomes all the roles of Hoods house and also the Assasin of Shadow

[Dolorous Menhir]

Dark Mac said:

Undisputed? I've only been here for a few months, but I've never seen anyone actually say that Apsalar is the Virgin of HHD. It just doesn't make any sense, since at that time she's still possessed by the Rope, who belongs to HHS. Hell, in the next book we see Kalam as the Assassin of Shadow, but I don't see anybody saying that he's replaced Cotillion.

Apsalar wasn't the Virgin of HHDeath. Sorry was.

Characters who held cards have died without ascending, namely Karsa's victims (Bidithal, Silgar). Can't think of any other examples at this point.

[Dark Mac]

Dolorous Menhir said:

Apsalar wasn't the Virgin of HHDeath. Sorry was.

Well, yeah, I know that. But she was still the Assassin of Shadow. Readings of the deck are generally just representations, not actual roles.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Well, I don't think the Cripple of HHChains will be ascending (the artisan who made the cards, gave Picker the Torcs of Treach at start of MoI).

But scanning through the deck in BH glossary, all the members are either clear-cut ascendants (old & new) or borderline cases (Ganoes, Karsa). No other examples of clearly mundane people.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Double post, I know, but it's a separate issue from the above.

Crazy theory - Hood's shocking request to Paran was:

free/revive Scabandari Bloodeye (no speculation on why)

[Folken]

Ganoes already is an ascendant.
As for the bloodeye...what for? Why would Hood want that the most?

[Dolorous Menhir]

Hetan said:

Scabs is not dead ... and since when did Hood have his soul?
iirc the elder gods trapped him eternal torment or summat

Well, yeah. That's why I said "free" as well as revive. Because he's not strictly dead.

And of course Hood doesn't have his soul, if he did then why would he need to ask the Master of the Deck to do it. If Hood had Scabby's soul he could just release it like he did Heboric.

I don't have any reasons for why Hood would want this though, except perhaps for the EG's to use Scabby against Rhulad. Perhaps they would view the return of Scabandari (who they had no fondness for at all, obviously) as preferable to the continued rule of Emperor Rhulad.

Really I just wanted to throw an idea out there that wasn't "Hood wants a wife", since that just seems stupid to me, it's like all those people who think Temper is Kellanved's son.

[Tremolo]

Hood wants Paran to catch Quick Ben for him?

[tiam]

why would Hood want QB. I dont think so. I mean theres other gods (ST) who want him more so why Hood

[Morgoth]

perhaps they made a bargin? Or perhaps Hood asked Paran to save WJ sister as an atempt to seek forgiveness for killing wj himself?

[Father Light]

Perhaps hood wants paran's blessing for a new member of his house, or possibly revenge on an old one? DU?

[BridgeBurner]

Dolorous Menhir said:

Crazy theory - Hood's shocking request to Paran was:

free/revive Scabandari Bloodeye (no speculation on why)

Problem is, both Ganoes Paran and QB shouldn't have a clue as to who Scabandari Bloodeye is, or what he did...

But that's why you are saying it here, I guess.