[Abyss]

My understanding was that Tiam, Draconus and Krul were all ender gods, siblings, if you will, possibly children of Mommy Dark.

Somehow or other Tiam created/gave birth to the Eleint, but that's a hypothesis. It would be equally accurate to say her 'mother of dragons' title refers only to her children via Ossric and Scabby, or more generally those she created when they drank her blood.

I think that it's an assumption that she gave birth to ALL dragons. Unless someone has a quote which shows otherwise (Vaiski? Anyone?)

- Abyss, waits to be proven wrong.

[Imperial Historian]

Draconus is part of Tiam's kin through marriage is he not?

So while he may be related in an obscure way to silnah by marriage, I don't think he is related to slinah anymore directly. As far as we know Draconus is like all the other half-blood males, created by mating/drinking the blood of tiam.

and on a related matter... has anyone noticed that Tiam's chidlren are all female? And that the only male eleint we have met are not her children per se but drank her blood... which raises the question... are there any male eleint?

[Dolorous Menhir]

the Otataral Dragon was female too...have there been any other pure-blood Eleint in the series?

Is there not a Consort in the Dragon Hold, though? I always thought that was Draconus' position, but it still implies male purebloods, no?

And however weird Tiam is (birth, death, rebirth, rinse, repeat), I don't think she reproduces asexually or is a hermaphrodite. There must be male Eleint, but perhaps they have all fled into Starvald Demelain.

[Abyss]

well someone made all those enkaral/wyvals flying around in the MT flashback...

- Abyss, not really wanting to explore that too far...

[tiam]

yeh its an assumption that tiam is the mother of all dragons but this is probably true therefore draconus is tiams kin therefor linked(no matter how thinly) to sillanah

[Dolmen 2.0]

maybe Tiam is both asexuall and trans-sexuall. maybe she has this complex where she kills all potential males because she's afraid they'll screw up her plans, which seem screwed anyway...Its possible.

[Abyss]

Actually, it appears the reverse is true... apparently she keeps dying, either after she mates, or after the gives birth.

- Abyss, thinks she should consider abstinence.

[tiam]

does she actually mate? then how do we have any eleintys at all. Ok say for example all true eleints were produced asexually. Tiam just started spewing them out. but what about soletaken. Do they just like run up with a dagger have sum tiam blood and run off. also how do they mate? on a scale of height we know sillanahs eye was as big as raest who was like 7 ft tall. so how would a normal human sized thing mate with it

[Dolorous Menhir]

if we must assume that beings like Osric and Rake had to semble into their dragon forms to (ahem) mate with Tiam, and I really don't want to think about any other possiblities, then they must have already drunk her blood and become draconic before they sired people like Menandore and Sheltatha Lore.

so she must've already been killed and resurrected. and during the Osric & daughters conversation in MT one claims that Tiam dies every time she gives birth...given this I think Tiam is just way too weird to try and explain.

[tiam]

yeh tiam is a confusing one. neways if rake an co starrted cutting tiam open and drinking her then how come she mated with them?

[Set'alahd Crool]

tiam said:

yeh tiam is a confusing one. neways if rake an co starrted cutting tiam open and drinking her then how come she mated with them?

Women! Always go for the wrong sort.

[tiam]

ahhhhhhh tiam liked to be treated badly thinking she could change him . poor gullable women eh?

[Abyss]

There's a 'likes it rough' joke to be made here, but really, it's just too easy.
Kinda like Tiam.

But what i wonder about is how Mandy Rake managed to have a few of his friends (Korlat, Orfantal, et al) show up to drink from her, when it appears Ossi and Scabby didn't have that option. Plus at least one of Rake's bros got in on the action too. Yet apparently Tiam only conceived by Ossi (twice) and Scabby.

I mean, we know Rake's boys can swim, based on his grandkids running around on Avalii...

- Abyss, wonders at the logistics of draconic birth control... ok, not really.

[Dolmen 2.0]

Draconic Birth control? Did they have plastic in those....never mind.

I see it this way when tiam gives birth to dragon baby, she dies and kinda explodes or bleeds to death due to the birth of said dragon baby. At this point rake and co go in and lap up the blood.

[Set'alahd Crool]

I reckon she's reborn in and of chaos."Children of chaos" is, iirc, used to describe dragons at some stage. If Raest is right (and it's not a GotMism) then K'rull was born of chaos, which could mean all the elder gods, and that it was from chaos that they sought to enter the malazan realm back when the K'chain were keeping them out. Slightly off topic, I know, but related in that it (maybe)shows that the most poweful beings - not counting soletaken or their offspring, since their power is borrowed, bought or stolen from elsewhere - were born in chaos.

More detail on the mechanics of Tiam's rebirth I can't offer, I'm afraid. My knowledge of chaotic reproduction is sadly lacking.

[tiam]

yes choas was first so all the elder gods are from there. All of them and togg and that before that. Neway maybe tiams reborn in them. OK

In terms of tiam is reborn maybe this is true. In terms of soletaken maybe tiam is every were. They drink tiams blood when she dies and maybe. shes reborn IN THEM. whenever they turn into soletaken elient they become tiam. Or they become a smaller version of tiam such as much blood they have drank/consumed. Therefore tiam gives birth to them and dies but is then reborn. this is a spirit of the moment theory and i havnt looked this up to check facts but this is the only thin i can think of. Maybe thats how shes reborn. She could be reborn in them as whenever they turn into soletaken they become tiam. So maybe tiam is the only dragon (maybe olar ethil aswell) and they all (soletaken) become limited manifestations of tiam. ALso maybe olar ethils the only one who got tiam all to herself. Thats why shes an twin and shes undead because of the ritual. This is pure specualtion btw but i suppose does make sense. ne thoughts

[tiam]

yes but maybe when they turn into soletaken thats how shes reborn. As for true eleints maybe there just children of tiam that produces asexually. I honestly this makes sense. She dies to give birth to the soletaken eleint then when they become soletaken she is reborn. for a certain amount of time. i supposee that could make sense