[Gorefest]

Nothing can endure that much spanking.

[Tsundoku]

Gorefest, on 16 January 2024 - 10:44 PM, said:

Nothing can endure that much spanking.

So ... much ... innuendo ... brain ... logjammed ... must ... not ... break ...

[Tiste Simeon]

Not got to any spanking yet but I'll be starting The Shadow Rising today so maybe I'll get lucky on this one.

[Macros]

Alas Tiste no spanking for you.
Bizarre traditions where every woman being tested must be in the skinny yet men go fully dressed galore though.

You know what, Faile isan annoying little shit, that does not change, terribly written from both her and Perrins side, but she does minority redeem herself (minorly) with the Devons bit at the end. I know the real shit is still to come
Finished book 4

Spoiler

same as before, Jordan can do climatic finishes, the tempo builds to the end, excellently so even.bbuuuuuuuuttttttt, so many overly dumb characters, the silly men and stubborn women shtick is already very tired. Dare I say ungrateful bitches and thick headed arseholes?
Forsaken are a constant let down.
White cloaks are actually not a bad pastiche of Christian crusaders, inquisition and zealots all rolled into one.
Complete ars3holes

I will say Jordan knows how to write a wanker, actual likeable characters, not so much.

On to book 5

[Abyss]

Macros, on 23 January 2024 - 09:58 AM, said:

Alas Tiste no spanking for you.
Bizarre traditions where every woman being tested must be in the skinny yet men go fully dressed galore though.
...

Aes Sedai tower nonsense vs Aiel practicality. Neither makes any difference for the operation of the arches.

[worry]

Robert Jordan died in 2007 which means he lived to see the movie Secretary (2002), thank goodness.

[Macros]

Abyss, on 23 January 2024 - 02:42 PM, said:

Macros, on 23 January 2024 - 09:58 AM, said:

Alas Tiste no spanking for you.
Bizarre traditions where every woman being tested must be in the skinny yet men go fully dressed galore though.
...

Aes Sedai tower nonsense vs Aiel practicality. Neither makes any difference for the operation of the arches.

Both require ladies to strip down in some shape or form.

It's prlur3 fetishism by Jordan.
I await the boob slapping

[Abyss]

Macros, on 23 January 2024 - 04:16 PM, said:

Abyss, on 23 January 2024 - 02:42 PM, said:

Macros, on 23 January 2024 - 09:58 AM, said:

Alas Tiste no spanking for you.
Bizarre traditions where every woman being tested must be in the skinny yet men go fully dressed galore though.
...

Aes Sedai tower nonsense vs Aiel practicality. Neither makes any difference for the operation of the arches.

Both require ladies to strip down in some shape or form.

It's prlur3 fetishism by Jordan.
I await the boob slapping

oh right i forgot the Aiel Wise Ones had the same silliness.

[Macros]

Book 5 done.the big dangling Mystery death that no one bqr needs gives a fuck about I somehow forgot about and meh'd again.

Balefire

Chanellers in general, normal soldiers aren't even needed, they're just chaff that get in the way and slailughtered.
I stand by the Aiel being super over powered in the early books given the number of spears The shaido have at their disposal.

Qlthe quality is consistent, building to a massive finale, the villains are fucking morons, women are from Venus and men are from Mars becomes increasingly irritating.
Morraines moment and letter is fairly awesome.
On to 6

[Macros]

Aes Sedq8, regardless of Ajah are just a bunch of completely unlikeable wankers

[Macros]

And Faile is just a dick, minor redemption from book...4? Has long been burned. If women were really like that humanity would have failed millenia ago

[Macros]

Dumai Wells.

This is peak from what I recall.
And again, Jordan knows how to write a final tenth, its non stop.

But fuuuuuuuuuuuck are the badly handled "characteristics" grating.


Min is passably likeable, Eugene's hard edges make sense and make for a decent character, Berelain is actuay kind of funny as a pastiche of the woman making her way ruthlessly but enjoying herself. But the rest of the female character are a bag of poorly written dicks.

Rand, tool
Perrin, bitchy confused tool with moments of wolf cool
Mat, eh. The best of the bunch, that is by no means a compliment by the way, but he at least calls the shittier characters on their shitty characteristics, then somehow gets bent to their awful storyline anyway.


I dunno, I know Dumai is peak, do I carry on to book 7? I feel like I need to finish out the Jordan era before seeing what Sanderson did as its been sooooo long since I read crossroads of vomit, and I never actually ready Jordans last book

[Macros]

On to book 7.

I maintain that yes people do dumb things(see trump), and that's probabthe realistic part of WoT, people will actively act against their own interests (see voting trump) and that's not the problem with Jordan.

Forsaken being petty is required or the story stops on chapter 1 of book 2 with Rand burned to a crisp.
Nobles/rich being entitled dicks happened, happens and will continue to happen, and makes for a more blurred good vs evil story.


It genuinely bad writing of people, not what they do, just bad characterisation, majority of Aes Sedai are interchangeable, same goes for most women with a few speech patterns changing FAUGH!
Hidebound men are the same, and nations literally bordering each other being completely chaulk and cheese is farcical.


Eh

For all my bitching, I'm still reading, he does enough to keep me along but it's with gritted teeth for some POVs

[Macros]

Also,

How dumb are Aes Sedai that they haven't twigged onto wise women, wisdoms, wise ones, waslve mistresses etc in 3000 fucking years

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Macros, on 04 February 2024 - 10:29 PM, said:

For all my bitching, I'm still reading, he does enough to keep me along but it's with gritted teeth for some POVs

This is where I'm at too. I've been listening to the earbooks, just started Towers of Midnight. It does improve a little when Sanderson takes over in terms of the more grating characteristics of the women in particular, but he can't re-write the previous 11 books. How Sanderson writes Egwene is a genuine treat.

The Aes Sedai being completely interchangeable is spot on. You could lose more than half them and lose nothing - and once they discover Travelling there's an in-universe reason for the same five women to be everywhere, too.

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 07 February 2024 - 10:31 AM

[Tsundoku]

Macros, on 06 February 2024 - 09:04 PM, said:

Also,How dumb are Aes Sedai that they haven't twigged onto wise women, wisdoms, wise ones, waslve mistresses etc in 3000 fucking years

Pretty sure in one book

Spoiler

it's revealed the AS know about the sewing circle or whatever they're called - those that failed to get into the Tower or the runaways - and have been keeping an eye on them for years. I don't think they knew about the sea chicks or the Aiel ones though. Can't recall exactly.

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 07 February 2024 - 10:06 AM, said:

Macros, on 04 February 2024 - 10:29 PM, said:

For all my bitching, I'm still reading, he does enough to keep me along but it's with gritted teeth for some POVs

This is where I'm at too. I've been listening to the earbooks, just started Towers of Midnight. It does improve a little when Sanderson takes over in terms of the more grating characteristics of the women in particular, but he can't re-write the previous 11 books. How Sanderson writes Egwene is a genuine treat. The Aes Sedai being completely interchangeable is spot on. You could more than half them and lose nothing - and once they discover Travelling there's an in-universe reason for the same five women to be everywhere, too.

Yah, that's why I always refer to them as Generic Aes Sedai/Magic Chick #whatever ...

[Macros]

We have a rapist granny!

[Tsundoku]

Macros, on 08 February 2024 - 10:08 AM, said:

We have a rapist granny!

Nah, she's "empowered".

[Tiste Simeon]

So I think I'm enjoying this one a bit better than the first 3, especially now they've left Tear. Some thoughts, just shy of 50% through:

I see the hate for Faile. I get it. Perrin needs to ditch her. I suspect he won't.

I really like the Aiel. They are definitely the best part of the story. The bit where Rand is a discovering their history - it seems they come from the same place as the Yonkers, way of the leaf and all that.

Nynaeve is still very annoying. Egwene is still annoying. Kind of still like Elayne though the whole thing with "oh I love Rand let me sneak around and kiss him but not actually tell him anything useful" is annoying.

Loial is still perfect, 10/10 no notes.

Robert Jordan is definitely a boob guy, there's a lot of folding hands under breasts, Aviendha and Moiraine stripping to run into the city in the desert, the sea folk mooching around on the ship with their tits out. Don't get me wrong, I like the boobies myself but it seems a little extraneous to keep slyly mentioning it.

All in all it's an ok book. I definitely don't quite see the huge amount of love it gets but maybe if I'd read this 15 or more tears ago I'd love it just as much.

[Abyss]

Tiste Simeon, on 08 February 2024 - 11:45 AM, said:

...
All in all it's an ok book. I definitely don't quite see the huge amount of love it gets but maybe if I'd read this 15 or more tears ago I'd love it just as much.

It's partly a function of the when... at the time there were a bunch of classic series... Shannara, RiftWar, Belgariad, but WoT was 'new', went bigger, and Jordan's style of writing (which people frequently forget had been refined writing seven or so Conan books) was incredibly readable. There weren't ten other massive fantasy epics on the go when WoT launched, and the hype around it grew to critical mass around book 4, where the temptation to grab all four massive doorstoppers and dig in was more than people could resists, and no one knew the series was going to run 14 books with years in between the later entries because in 1992 that was not a thing that happened and there was no internet to whine about it if it did.