[Tiste Simeon]

Hey up

Just wanted somewhere to pop my thoughts on this series as I go through it. I do aim to eventually read the whole thing though I may be taking breaks throughout.

I'm 50% through book 2 (The Great Hunt) and while I am enjoying the world RJ created, some annoyances are sticking out a little bit that I can't quite ignore...

So firstly I really hate Nynaeve. She is so very 1 dimensional and it's beginning to annoy me. Like all she is is anger and it's very tiresome. Constantly going "I'm only going to learn so I can become powerful to take Moraine down for what she did to us!" is just so dumb.

Like has she not seen enough now to know a) Moraine is not the source of the problems, and maybe a lot of what Moraine has said and done is for a good reason? It's just frustrating reading her sections.

I was getting very annoyed with Rand as well, but the scenes where he is slowly becoming a better fighter and stuff are sort of mollifying that, though he's stilly a whiny little git.

Also I accidentally spoilered myself about who Selene actual is whoops haha

We'll see how I feel at the end of this, but it's certainly not the potential masterpiece that many claim it to be, at least to my mind...

[QuickTidal]

 Tiste Simeon, on 14 September 2023 - 02:14 PM, said:

So firstly I really hate Nynaeve. She is so very 1 dimensional and it's beginning to annoy me. Like all she is is anger and it's very tiresome. Constantly going "I'm only going to learn so I can become powerful to take Moraine down for what she did to us!" is just so dumb.

One of my fave things watching others read these is watching their minds slowly change about certain characters. I ALSO once hated Nynaeve...I no longer do.

 Tiste Simeon, on 14 September 2023 - 02:14 PM, said:

Like has she not seen enough now to know a) Moraine is not the source of the problems, and maybe a lot of what Moraine has said and done is for a good reason? It's just frustrating reading her sections.

She's VERY stuck in her ways, and needs a lot more "real world" shit to happen before she starts to see there ways in which she's wrong.

 Tiste Simeon, on 14 September 2023 - 02:14 PM, said:

I was getting very annoyed with Rand as well, but the scenes where he is slowly becoming a better fighter and stuff are sort of mollifying that, though he's stilly a whiny little git.

To a certain extent this never stops. He grows, but be aware that part of you will always be annoyed by shit Rand does and says that's boneheaded...luckily the other characters will tell him for you, and Mat more than makes up for Rand.

 Tiste Simeon, on 14 September 2023 - 02:14 PM, said:

We'll see how I feel at the end of this, but it's certainly not the potential masterpiece that many claim it to be, at least to my mind...

I didn't think I was reading anything special till the end of Book 4/Book5....and I flagged in the latter Jordan books a bit, but Sanderson's final 3 books bring it home pretty strongly.

[Gorefest]

Have the spankings already started? Jordan really loves his spankings.

[QuickTidal]

 Gorefest, on 14 September 2023 - 04:56 PM, said:

Have the spankings already started? Jordan really loves his spankings.

And old women cougaring over the younger men.

[Tiste Simeon]

 Gorefest, on 14 September 2023 - 04:56 PM, said:

Have the spankings already started? Jordan really loves his spankings.

Wow something to look forward to!

Thanks QT, I was wavering a little bit with how annoying Nynaeve is being, but I trust you enough to know I'll most likely agree with you

[JPK]

Sorry if you've already mentioned this before, but are you doing these in a physical format or audio?

[Tiste Simeon]

If I'm being pedantic, I'm reading them eBook which I guess means physical format ;-)

[the broken]

The books are vey good at putting you inside character's head (not as good as Robin Hobb though). What they say and think and what they actually believe can be very different.

Spoiler

It took me a long, long time to make sense of Faile

[Tiste Simeon]

I'm enjoying this bit about the Seanchan basically taking over a town on the West coast of the land and spreading through.

More enemies to fight? They appear to be on the side of the light but so are the Children and those guys are awful. I'm looking forward to that inevitable clash as the Seanchan seem to be pretty powerful and I'd love to see the Children of Light get beat up.

[Tiste Simeon]

I have finished book 2! And I will say that at one point I was ready to give up on the whole project because I was so annoyed by certain characters, as already mentioned, as well as the "now we've moved to this town and wouldn't you know it the thing we came here for us not here" frustrating endlessness of it all.

But then it started to get quite good. I picked up a bit of interest with the daes dae'mar stuff and then Egwene got caught by the Seanchan. Who are seriously bad dudes but I kind of like them? For starters they're not the American evangelicals Children of the Light who are seriously bad dudes and need to choke on a chode.

Also the Seanchan are just so delightfully over the top arrogant evil and I'm just enjoying the vibe with them.

Then Rand did some cool fighting stuff with Turak and then later Ba'alzamon and was not a whiny douchenozzle for the first time in his life and revelations started to cone and people found out who he is and stuff.

Basically the last 15% of the book was great, the first half and a bit was forgettable on the whole.

I'm still in. Even Nynaeve became a bit less annoying by the end and didn't completely suck.

Other cool bits: Ingatar's redemption; the secret between Moraine and the Amrylin Seat and their plans; Lan; Hurin (I mean come on I know you love Tolkien but really?) and his sniffer talent.

Fave characters in this one were Elayne and Min.

Having said that the cringe conversations between those two and Egwene about who Rand should marry weren't fun to read and there is far too much "Rand/Egwene might be in trouble! I must save them from themselves/the orcs trollocs!"

[Tiste Simeon]

So I finally met Macros' favourite character, Faile!

Still plodding through book 3, definitely going to take a break before moving on...

This post has been edited by Tiste Simeon: 22 November 2023 - 12:44 PM

[Tiste Simeon]

And I finished book 3. While the ending was once again pretty exciting, there is an awful lot of people moving from one place to another and talking about the same things and it just makes it drag.

I'm still in but I'm going to take a break to read something else.

[Macros]

Faile(d) character is just like so good

[Tiste Simeon]

Yeah she's not in this one that much but she's already a bit annoying...

[Macros]

Oh man you are in for a treat

[Tsundoku]

 Macros, on 09 December 2023 - 08:09 AM, said:

Oh man you are in for a treat

[Tiste Simeon]

Forewarned is forearmed though, right? How bad can it actually get?

[Abyss]

 Tiste Simeon, on 09 December 2023 - 12:59 PM, said:

Forewarned is forearmed though, right? How bad can it actually get?

I've never though Faile or Nyneave were as annoying as some people whine.
Rand has some way way more irritating personality quirks.

[Macros]

Toss up between Rand and Perrin for most annoying male I'd say
I think for me the majourity of the female characters were so shallowly and badly written than Nyn and Faile being the standout shite from that diabolically bad cast is why they're so awful (Nyneave does improve, but Faile (imo) never did)

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

I'm about halfway through book 12 in earbook (Sanderson's first one).

The women improve a little on the whole (I don't mind Nynaeve at this point, Egwene gets significantly better throughout the series) with the noted exception of Faile who I don't think any level of change could have saved for me.

Rand on the other hand is vomit-inducingly terrible. There's some really well written, downright sinister stuff happening:

Spoiler

Semirhage has just forced him to strangle Min, and he's banished Cadsuane in the aftermath

And it all gets undercut by being in Rand's ridiculous emo teenager head. "I'm going to be cuendillar and never feel a thing ever again because I've been so weak and pathetic." Eurgh.

Whatever you're going to be, please shut up.

From memory he does get a bit better towards the end (I remember really enjoying the last book in particular) but I agree wholeheartedly that it isn't only the women who suffer from very poor writing and characterisation. Perrin is just sort of there for me - can't say he's brilliant but he isn't actively irritating me either. Mat and Thom are genuinely fun most of the time though. My favourite at this end of the series is:

Spoiler

Gareth Bryne, having zero patience for Gawyn's nonsense and really laying on the "Yeah, your mother destroyed Andor so if Rand killed her hey, kind of not a bad thing." Dude is brutal.

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 18 December 2023 - 04:20 PM