[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 14 January 2023 - 09:09 AM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 13 January 2023 - 06:26 PM, said:

Quote

Has Mercer or anyone CR related commented on the OGL yet?

I'd be surprised if WotC wasn't campaigning (heehee) hard behind the scenes to get them on board.

I believe wotc released a first draft of the ogl to some of there content creators with a non disclosure agreement attached, I'd assume critical role is among those hence a lack of comment.

Since nearly everything so far is leaks and counter leaks I suspect we won't get a comment from critical role until something official is released.

Personally whilst I'm not in the camp that the OGL is some sacred cow, wizards taking some share of high earning business profits that use wotc platform doesn't massively offend me.

That said the leaked changes are so awful I can't see how anyone can support them. Smacks of corporate folk who know nothing about the subject thinking they can make a quick buck.

I would assume Critical Role have their own agreement with WotC, either prior to this or in advance of the "leak" recently. Also, they're far too savvy to comment on anything before it's officially released, even if they do have their own agreement.

WotC are getting an absolute roasting for their statement yesterday, and I'm not surprised. The fact they've put so little effort into the lies they're telling being believable is tangible - drafts do not get sent out with mandates of a date to sign them by. Saying you always wanted community feedback is entiely disingenuous - if so, you'd have announced it day one and there would have been surveys etc... you know, the way gather feedback.

When you've lost the community in such a tangible way, it is absolutely not the time to be making cutesy in jokes like "We rolled a 1". Also, that paragraph about how people are going to be saying they won "but we won too" - what? That got through people who are supposed to be good at PR? Ouch.

To be honest, I agree in that them taking some share from people who are profiting from their work isn't terrible (though I don't think the size in the leak is justifible). It's everything else, chief among them the license back mess. The fact they've backtracked on it I don't think is going to convince anyone that they won't try it again in the future, and I can't see Paizo and the other companies involved not proceeding with the plans for ORC.

'they appear to be editing this in real time. Unbelievable… [...] Compare these screenshots of their live page.

"[...] The license back language was intended to protect us and our partners from creators who incorrectly allege that we steal their work simply because of coincidental similarities (lots of third-party content includes dungeons... and dragons). [...]"

"[...] The license back language was intended to protect us and our partners from creators who incorrectly allege that we steal their work simply because of coincidental similarities. [...]"'

Maatlock on Twitter: "FYI people with a bigger voice than me. @lincodega @OpenDnD they appear to be editing this in real time. Unbelievable… but on @Wizards_DnD brand. Compare these screenshots of their live page. https://t.co/OE1SQ48IT1" / Twitter

... 'we rolled a 1' is still there though (for now...).

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 14 January 2023 - 11:41 AM

[Slow Ben]

Statement from Critical Role. Translation - It’s all bullshit but we’re legally obligated from saying too much.



https://twitter.com/...igrBw5KU27GxFbw

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Further update from the original reporter:

Cancelled D&D Beyond Subscriptions Forced Hasbro's Hand

Confirmation it wasn't a draft (surprise, suprrise) and that some third parties got access to a sweetheart deal version... so that confirms they had every intent of going through with it until their bottom line was rightly hit.

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 14 January 2023 - 06:04 PM

[QuickTidal]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 14 January 2023 - 06:04 PM, said:

Further update from the original reporter:

Cancelled D&D Beyond Subscriptions Forced Hasbro's Hand

Confirmation it wasn't a draft (surprise, suprrise) and that some third parties got access to a sweetheart deal version... so that confirms they had every intent of going through with it until their bottom line was rightly hit.

This should not surprise us, the people in charge making these calls are ALL corporate profiteering lowlifes.

[polishgenius]

You know you're in trouble when Legal Eagle is doing breakdowns.

[Maark Abbott]

A fun little thing I saw someone comment on this entire debacle:

"They tried to sneak a shitty legal document... past an army of rules lawyers"

[Maark Abbott]

More landing:

(1) DnD_Shorts on Twitter: "I can confirm these changes are what @Wizards digital game VP Chris Cao has planned for the future of D&D The $30pm is for the highest tier, and includes monthly content drops Their dream is everyone paying $30pm to play Hos is correct on everything, confirmed by WotC sources" / Twitter

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Maark Abbott, on 17 January 2023 - 06:51 AM, said:

More landing:

(1) DnD_Shorts on Twitter: "I can confirm these changes are what @Wizards digital game VP Chris Cao has planned for the future of D&D The $30pm is for the highest tier, and includes monthly content drops Their dream is everyone paying $30pm to play Hos is correct on everything, confirmed by WotC sources" / Twitter

'- Homebrew banned at Base Tiers'

Yikes....

'- Stripped down gameplay for AI-DMs'

1. AI DM's confirmed!

2. Hmm... why 'stripped down gameplay' I wonder. LLMs like ChatGPT seem pretty good at covering a broad scope... though OTOH ChatGPT is terrible at counting. Shouldn't be too hard to integrate LLM with conventional computing for the math of the game. Though trying to train LLM to keep players on course---and not doing anything that might 'harm the brand' if publicized---could be tricky.

3. If people running games through official D&D websites/apps are having their games recorded to train AI, there could be a backlash. 'You're stealing our blah blah blah!' Learning, not stealing.

4. Offering DMs AI assistance (generating adventures, or multiple real-time possibilities in the course of a game, suggestions for improved writing/storytelling, or creative suggestions) seems like an obvious avenue....

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 17 January 2023 - 11:29 AM

[Maark Abbott]

AI DMs is, much like anything else AI right now, a terrible idea. I'd give it all of a week before you have AI DMs denying the Holocaust and generally being 4chan incarnate.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

AI voice changers would be great (for online games at least).

[QuickTidal]

Maark Abbott, on 17 January 2023 - 06:51 AM, said:

More landing:

(1) DnD_Shorts on Twitter: "I can confirm these changes are what @Wizards digital game VP Chris Cao has planned for the future of D&D The $30pm is for the highest tier, and includes monthly content drops Their dream is everyone paying $30pm to play Hos is correct on everything, confirmed by WotC sources" / Twitter

So that's WORSE than just the OGL kerfuffle...

These MFers won't be happy till they monetize everything. It's video game micro transactions and subscription tiers for better stuff all over again.

These people are fucking delusional. My gods. Talk about not having a clue about the demographic who consumes and uses your stuff...

Also, this is what it looks like when a big corporation like this....fucking implodes. The staff being held down in fear of their jobs should be a red flag to these lower tiered staff....and would be my reason (If I worked there) to walk out the door before the whole thing goes south. The writing is on the wall here. WOTC is toast as it stands....and Hasbro is about to lose 70% of their overall revenue in all this.

[Maark Abbott]

QuickTidal, on 17 January 2023 - 01:30 PM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 17 January 2023 - 06:51 AM, said:

More landing:

(1) DnD_Shorts on Twitter: "I can confirm these changes are what @Wizards digital game VP Chris Cao has planned for the future of D&D The $30pm is for the highest tier, and includes monthly content drops Their dream is everyone paying $30pm to play Hos is correct on everything, confirmed by WotC sources" / Twitter

So that's WORSE than just the OGL kerfuffle...

These MFers won't be happy till they monetize everything. It's video game micro transactions and subscription tiers for better stuff all over again.

These people are fucking delusional. My gods. Talk about not having a clue about the demographic who consumes and uses your stuff...

Also, this is what it looks like when a big corporation like this....fucking implodes. The staff being held down in fear of their jobs should be a red flag to these lower tiered staff....and would be my reason (If I worked there) to walk out the door before the whole thing goes south. The writing is on the wall here. WOTC is toast as it stands....and Hasbro is about to lose 70% of their overall revenue in all this.

It's like WOTC looked at EA and Ubisoft and got a throbbing, raging boner that could only be satiated by sticking their corporate dick deep into a pile of warm, moist coins. Sort of like Scrooge McDuck's money vault except not acting as a liquid. I forget where I'm going with this analogy.

[QuickTidal]

Maark Abbott, on 17 January 2023 - 02:24 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 17 January 2023 - 01:30 PM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 17 January 2023 - 06:51 AM, said:

More landing:

(1) DnD_Shorts on Twitter: "I can confirm these changes are what @Wizards digital game VP Chris Cao has planned for the future of D&D The $30pm is for the highest tier, and includes monthly content drops Their dream is everyone paying $30pm to play Hos is correct on everything, confirmed by WotC sources" / Twitter

So that's WORSE than just the OGL kerfuffle...

These MFers won't be happy till they monetize everything. It's video game micro transactions and subscription tiers for better stuff all over again.

These people are fucking delusional. My gods. Talk about not having a clue about the demographic who consumes and uses your stuff...

Also, this is what it looks like when a big corporation like this....fucking implodes. The staff being held down in fear of their jobs should be a red flag to these lower tiered staff....and would be my reason (If I worked there) to walk out the door before the whole thing goes south. The writing is on the wall here. WOTC is toast as it stands....and Hasbro is about to lose 70% of their overall revenue in all this.

It's like WOTC looked at EA and Ubisoft and got a throbbing, raging boner that could only be satiated by sticking their corporate dick deep into a pile of warm, moist coins. Sort of like Scrooge McDuck's money vault except not acting as a liquid. I forget where I'm going with this analogy.

Remember the woman who is the President of WOTC right now Cynthia Williams, arrived there in 2022 from her previous job as General Manager and Vice President, Gaming Ecosystem Commercial Team, and most notably drove the expansion of Xbox Gaming and the acceleration of game-creator growth....and said OUT LOUD that D&D was not "monetized enough"....so this lady (and Chris Cocks, CEO of Hasbro) literally comes to this from a job where she motorized the FUCK out of video games to make Microsoft more money by charging for everything.

Cocks (apt name really) 1000000000% hired her for this job BECAUSE of that job history, not despite it.

It's rot all the way down with these greedy Capitalist fucks.

[QuickTidal]

Oh, and the attempt at making AI DM's a thing is intentional...(also dumb, while AI is interesting, it's in its infancy and is not going to make a valid DM.....like this is some corporate hack being like "We can use AI can't we?!").....but let me tell you why they want this to be a thing.

As it stands, the DM's are the ones making them most of the money as DM's hoist up the dough to buy the tools to share with their group right?

Well you can bet the reason they want AI DMs is because then they can have their own 'house' DM and they use DnD Beyond's 'matchmaking', this way everyone will buy their own individual content. It's fucking insidious.

[Abyss]

AI DMs isn't hard at a very basic (pun intended) level. Enter player character stats and run them through a choose-your-own-adventure series of preplanned encounters. It's current level online game tech with a voicebox and a dice roll generator.

AI can't improvise or adapt (yet), but as an intro level experience it's totally do-able. Make it free, easy, and throw on a pile of vid content of 'advanced' (paying) players having the greatest time ever and it's a low cost high interactive selling platform that totally won't go all skynet and tpk thousands before coming for us all.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Abyss, on 17 January 2023 - 06:36 PM, said:

AI DMs isn't hard at a very basic (pun intended) level. Enter player character stats and run them through a choose-your-own-adventure series of preplanned encounters. It's current level online game tech with a voicebox and a dice roll generator.

AI can't improvise or adapt (yet), but as an intro level experience it's totally do-able. Make it free, easy, and throw on a pile of vid content of 'advanced' (paying) players having the greatest time ever and it's a low cost high interactive selling platform that totally won't go all skynet and tpk thousands before coming for us all.

ChatGPT-3 is already good at improvising at adapting. It's basically just a matter of choosing the right training sets (screening out certain things, like Nazi references, etc.) and integrating the rules mechanics with the LLM and/or preset adventure frameworks.

'I've seen someone use ChatGPT to basically "run a D&D adventure" for them as an experiment. I imagine the WotC leadership (as @DnD_Shorts confirmed in his tweet these are real things planned) are big into the idea of replacing writers/DMs/artists with AI.'

Mark "Sherlock" Hulmes - TTRPG Person 🏳️‍🌈💖 on Twitter: "@DungeonScribe @Wizards @dnd_beyond I've seen someone use ChatGPT to basically "run a D&D adventure" for them as an experiment. I imagine the WotC leadership (as @DnD_Shorts confirmed in his tweet these are real things planned) are big into the idea of replacing writers/DMs/artists with AI." / Twitter

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

https://scontent-iad...3dA&oe=63CB9E3A

[Abyss]

The big surprise to me here - as a former player who has just sort of semi-followed the industry sideways thru social media for a while - was the apparently large number of people generating D&D compatible content as their livelihood. I'm kind of stunned at the size of the third party industry that's grown up around the game while not 'officially' a part of it.

[Maark Abbott]

Abyss, on 18 January 2023 - 04:56 AM, said:

The big surprise to me here - as a former player who has just sort of semi-followed the industry sideways thru social media for a while - was the apparently large number of people generating D&D compatible content as their livelihood. I'm kind of stunned at the size of the third party industry that's grown up around the game while not 'officially' a part of it.

Yeah it's MASSIVE. There are a LOT of folk that this OGL is borderline career ending for if implemented. And it's not just companies making modules, etc - there's a sizeable streaming audience for this stuff and streamers on top.

[Maark Abbott]

A Working Conversation About the Open Game License (OGL) - Posts - D&D Beyond (dndbeyond.com)

So they backed down, but the fact they began to act like EA at all has folk leery and suspicious. I expect the damage is already done and their reputation will never recover from this.