[Chance]

Imperial Historian, on 18 July 2023 - 10:59 AM, said:

I've frequently spent time planning something only for my players to bypass it entirely.

Having encountered this problem myself I'd say it can usually be moved forward and/or be lightly reskined.

For me 95% of what takes time is preparing non combat. How the world fits together, why NPC's are doing what they are doing and how they are going to interact with the players. Combat encounters are simply compared to preparing for say a party or a royal audience, or the near nightmare of a recent tourney which turned out quite well but so much preparation and built up.

Another hot tip for the first role playing campaign is pick a world and setting all the players are familiar, it does so much work for you. Otherwise you kind of have to work up a familiarity with the setting and that can take a lot of time and effort.

Also if your running D&D/Pathfinder at least earlier editions (which I'm familiar with) had sweet spots mechanically classically level 3-7 with level 1-2 being fairly boring and level 8+ being mechanically cumbersome. It can be useful to spend more time in the sweetspot and plan the campaign around ending soon after leaving the sweetspot. The sweetspot depends a bit on the players more mechanically savy the more cumbersome mechanics they can handle, the higher level might be managable. My current kind of Pathfinder campaign is expected to end at level 13 for example but without heavily modifying the system I'd never run Pathfinder up to that level.

This post has been edited by Chance: 18 July 2023 - 01:56 PM

[Abyss]

I'd add that after a few years DM'ing, if i 'planned' anything it was as a series of events, encounters, fights etc. that i could move anywhere i needed them to be. Characters take the road instead of the forest, np, the NPC wanders onto the road. They decide to talk instead of fight, k the monster will offer to sell or trade or puke up the important clue in its digestive tract. Battle planned for the swamp takes place in the bar... the (anachronistic but totally explainable as belonging to the previous owner, a mage of some notoriety) basement was flooded w swampwater, shocking! but now we get molotov cocktails vs giant leeches!

I barely used maps because maps fix a path in place. It becomes trickier if you're using an adventure someone else wrote, but one read in advance and i could usually shuffle whatever i had to.

[Macros]

Thanks for this guys

I think I was definitely getting dragged to much into storyboarding and minutia

[Abyss]

Macros, on 18 July 2023 - 06:31 PM, said:

Thanks for this guys

I think I was definitely getting dragged to much into storyboarding and minutia

The current trend in streaming and paid for play DMs sells the role as a job that requires prep and more prep and individual meetings w every player and backstories the size of MoI.

Nothing wrong w any of that, but it's first and foremost a GAME. You do it for FUN. So do less work, have more fun.
A little prep is fun (for the record zero prep is also fun I have run some whackjob brilliant campaigns on no prep whatsoever but it was a very chill group), hours of prep... your call. Just don't turn it into work.

[Macros]

I've been given a pdf of one shots "the candle keep mysteries"
Anyone played/run any of them?
How do you pick which one??

[Macros]

Have picked one, reads well.

It says numbers of monsters can be tweaked based on size of party.
How does one know how much to tweak?

[Chance]

Macros, on 20 July 2023 - 05:47 PM, said:

Have picked one, reads well.

It says numbers of monsters can be tweaked based on size of party.
How does one know how much to tweak?

I think the only way to go about it is testing your way forward, going soft at level 1 is rarely a bad idea. No classic orcs dealing 1d12+X damage with a x3 critical multiplier. In most cases player choices, levels of game mastery, class choices and so on make each group unique. A group that heavily optimize and learn the system well will usually be crushing twice as many or much more difficult enemies than a group that just rolls with something and pick options at random.

[Slow Ben]

That’s good advice.

Also, a group is usually 3-4 PCs. So if you’ve got 8, you might add an extra goblin or two Or if you’ve got 2, you might take one away.

You can always adjust on the fly also. If it’s too hard for your players, you can always lower an enemies stats/give them less hp. Or beef them if they’re mowing everything down.

[Abyss]

Slow Ben, on 20 July 2023 - 07:41 PM, said:

...You can always adjust on the fly also. If it's too hard for your players, you can always lower an enemies stats/give them less hp. Or beef them if they're mowing everything down.

This. Maybe your players use tactics and teamwork, maybe they just 1v1 balls out for glory. Maybe they plan, maybe they the opposite of that. Start easy, 1-1 or less opponents less tough than they are. Make the threat seem bigger than it is... a "hulking, scar faced goblin wielding a huge axe' dies just as easy as "a goblin". Once i had some idea wtf i was doing, i typically let new players work for it a little but get the win the first time out or two. Have some fun with it. That same hulking goblin can have a sack of rats he throws at people, a pet vulture, a few bottles of booze he lights on fire. Use the enemy to show them what's possible.

[Macros]

Ah, I thought there was a simple formula, I have 3 # level 4 Pcs therefore I have monsters totalling X attack them.

But I like fudging it on the fly idea

[Chance]

Macros, on 21 July 2023 - 06:35 AM, said:

But I like fudging it on the fly idea

Fudging to me is usually necessary now and then, usually when misfortune or underestimations occur. But it can be a touchy subject some groups/people react badly to it. It usually depends where the group is on the game vs entertainment scale. If you expect a fair game fudging might seem unfair.

Most of my fudging is adjusting enemies to make them harder, adjusting hit points upwards is very stealthy fudging, so is letting the opponents have a decent potion or scroll in their belts At the same time it might be okay to occasionally have the players run over the opposition but normally such encounters are quicker and easier described as the players quickly finishing of the enemy without an actual combat occurring.

You can also add some extra consumables if the fighting becomes a problem, a scroll of raise dead or a batch of good healing potions usually go a long way to restoring the group to fighting shape even if an encounter was a bit too hard and left someone dead or completely out of resources.

This post has been edited by Chance: 21 July 2023 - 07:54 AM

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Macros, on 20 July 2023 - 05:47 PM, said:

Have picked one, reads well.

It says numbers of monsters can be tweaked based on size of party.
How does one know how much to tweak?

Start off low, and if an encounter is looking too easy you can always have the monsters "call for reinforcements" or some such. Equally, if you find yourself having massively overdone it, once a couple of monsters are down the remainder could look at their dead comrades and decide discretion is the better part of valour.

The only time I've DM'd was for a playtest, so we had to test out the balancing. I was fudging numbers up A LOT because the encounters were too easy, but I think because it was a playtest everyone was understanding about that. Some players feel it's unfair or "cheating" on the part of the DM to do that, but others would rather be entertained by an encounter than have it be boring and too easy (I'm firmly in this camp - as long as the DM isn't fudging to the point of murdering the party as fast as possible, I'm pretty easy going). I guess you'll only be able to judge what mixture you've got by playing.

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 21 July 2023 - 07:44 AM

[Abyss]

Macros, on 21 July 2023 - 06:35 AM, said:

Ah, I thought there was a simple formula, I have 3 # level 4 Pcs therefore I have monsters totalling X attack them.

But I like fudging it on the fly idea

Some people use the equation. I understand the reasoning. Never did it.

With some creativity you can have first level characters dealing with (but not defeating) wildly higher level monsters where just surviving is a win, and wildly low level monsters can be a massive pita (Tucker's Kobolds). Sticking to the X players at Y levels vs A monsters at dear gods i get bored just typing it.

[Primateus]

Macros, on 21 July 2023 - 06:35 AM, said:

Ah, I thought there was a simple formula, I have 3 # level 4 Pcs therefore I have monsters totalling X attack them.

But I like fudging it on the fly idea

Also, don't forget you have the option to put your players against enemies they are not yet strong enough to defeat. Teach them that "retreating" is also an option. This also ought to encourage finding different means of defeating the enemy.

[Tsundoku]

Primateus, on 23 July 2023 - 09:36 AM, said:

Macros, on 21 July 2023 - 06:35 AM, said:

Ah, I thought there was a simple formula, I have 3 # level 4 Pcs therefore I have monsters totalling X attack them.

But I like fudging it on the fly idea

Also, don't forget you have the option to put your players against enemies they are not yet strong enough to defeat. Teach them that "retreating" is also an option. This also ought to encourage finding different means of defeating the enemy.

I love how you're assuming they'll learn the lesson instead of simply attacking every time until TPK ...

Also thinking everything in this thread from #92 onward should probably be in Knoll Barrow ...

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 23 July 2023 - 12:43 PM

[Macros]

Shove it up your knoll barrow