[Dolorous Menhir]

I don't see the distinction you are making. It is produced, and afterwards is present.

[paladin]

i mean, do we know that this happens the moment the jade falls from the sky, or do we just know that it currently encases the jade(meaning that it could have been put there at a later time, say, after someone said what the heck is this jade giant doin here and why is it eminating so much nasty power, we should protect ourselves with otataral)?

[tiam]

Just to point out something. In the BH prologue Spite uses SD and the 'entropic force of otateral seeps out' or something like that. Therefore otateral is from SD. Which makes me beleive that wen magic is used in immense quantities and when the levels of energy are burnt out it reverts back to its most basic form which is SD the first warren hence spites quote. Id even claim that Tiam is the otateral dragon being the mother of all dragons would explain the uniqueness and lostara says that tis dragon answers all others therefore tiam is the most likely candidate.

[Monoch Ochem]

My only speculation on that otataral dragon was whether or not it might actually be Kilmandaros.

Reasoning was something along the lines of: since the FA are impervious to magic, perhaps they're otataral aspected or just have similar traits. I mean, the Azath rise to contain beings of too much power. Similarly, otataral is created by huge outpourings of magic. So Kilmandaros being some sort of patron for the FA (speculation) could have an otataral soletaken form.

[drinksinbars]

didnt someone put forward the suggestion that the otatoral dragon is tiam herself, its not a bad theory when you consider in bonehunters that one of the nameless ones released dejim using the power of starvald demalain and it dissolved the magic as would otatoral.

considering all of the dragons, not soletaken mind, but dragons are path shapers of magic it makes some sense that tiam could be otatoral because all magic derives from SD. Secondly in one of udinaas flashes someone mentions that tiam might never rise again.

also, just side note, anyone think that telorast and curdle might be menadore and dapple??

[Dolorous Menhir]

Monoch Ochem;168804 said:

My only speculation on that otataral dragon was whether or not it might actually be Kilmandaros.

Reasoning was something along the lines of: since the FA are impervious to magic, perhaps they're otataral aspected or just have similar traits. I mean, the Azath rise to contain beings of too much power. Similarly, otataral is created by huge outpourings of magic. So Kilmandaros being some sort of patron for the FA (speculation) could have an otataral soletaken form.

The FA are impervious to magic?

drinksinbars;168811 said:

also, just side note, anyone think that telorast and curdle might be menadore and dapple??

Actually I like this idea. Nice one. Except that T & C appear to be proper dragons, not Soletaken Eleint Tiste Edur.

[Monoch Ochem]

But Menandore and Dapple would have to have been chained there for aaages. We saw them in MT, remember?

[Set'alahd Crool]

@Dolorous
The Kris'nan with Trull, Fear, Rhulad and the 2 demons said the magic he threw at the FA just disappeared, washed over or was otherwise completely ineffective. The fact that this sorcery comes from or is augmented by the CG makes this all the more impressive.

I don't think the OD is Tiam, since the Featherwitch says the Queen lies DEAD and may never rise again. The OD wasn't dead. I think.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Monoch Ochem;168839 said:

But Menandore and Dapple would have to have been chained there for aaages. We saw them in MT, remember?

I think Udinaas was flashing back through time when he had that vision. How far back though...who knows. Osric had just fought Rake for the umpteenth time, and I suppose he hasn't done that for a while before the main series given his total seclusion.

Any idea how long Sheltatha was in the Azath with Ruin for? That would date the sisters appearance in MT nicely.

[Monoch Ochem]

But who was it that raped Udinaas? Wasn't it Menandore? ...Oh, but I forgot about the time travel element of Udinaas' visions.

[Aptorian]

DM ~ About FA's being immune to magic, I think its a theory thats been put forth after Serenity threw the K'risnans magic back in MT. It didn't seem to work on her, and K'risnan sorcerors even use Elder magic, be it Chaos or KE, still impressive.

I really like the dragons being the ones from MT.

Time wise I don't think it's a problem, I had a feeling the fight between Rake and Osserc and the fight between the daughters was around the time of the sundering and the betrayal. There wasn't any ice yet, so it doesn't sound like it was after Gothos Ritual. Unless of course the scene took place far away from that area on lether. Or unless it was actually very rescent - Still my money is on it happening around 400.000 thousand years ago.

Checking the Draconean Family tree, it says:

Menandore (Betrayer, Dawn) and Sukul Ankhadu (The Fickle, Dapple) are children of Tiam and Osserc. So they're not soletaken, they must be true Elient or half Eleient or what ever.

Sheltatha Lore (Daughter Dusk) is the daughter of Tiam and Scabby.

Sounds probable at least

[Bl1nder]

Jen said:

okay...um out of curiosity since when is the Ottatarl dragon female...?
And I swear consort usually refers to male...and where do u get laederon continent from?

And Scabby is on Drift Avalli as is popular belief because the Throne of Shadow is there and Andarist tells cutter that being in this place can wake his soul. His=Scabby or so we believe

You are quite wrong, Poliel is reffered as the "consort" in TBH.