Malazan Empire: Abyss is WILLING very very WILLING - Malazan Empire

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Abyss is WILLING very very WILLING reading thread Rate Topic: -----

#61 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 22 July 2021 - 03:48 AM

Ahrighty then... now having Just FInished THE GOD IS NOT WILLING for the second time... *arguably third since i did audio and ebook overlapping the first, then selective (but near total) ebook the second...


WELCOME BACK SE - this was so much a return to form for SE. Unlike many i enjoyed the Kharkanas 2/3rdslogy, but this book... this was everything i loved about Malazan from the beginning way back... clever soldiers, fascinating, very human non-humans, weird worlds, hints at history and stories within the story, small conflicts and huge events, knife fights in the dark and armies charging each other. And others have commented elsewhere that in many ways SE has improved. I agree. There was a ... flow... to this story, a movement from part to part that worked very very well. The characters were even more real and more distinct, their voices wonderfully realized.

SPEAKING OF VOICES - ...I cannot say enough good about the earbook narrator Emma Gregory's work here. Her voices are PERFECT. THose scenes where a bunch of heavies were debating anything... she gives them each a distinct voice and speach, yet each sounds like a large heavy soldier... her Rake was perfect, her Shadownthrone and Cotillion as well.. and Stillwater... omg Stillwater just lives... the glorious absurd combo of moron out of her depth and clever lethal assassin-mage is SO well done.

BEST NEW CHARACTER - Stillwater. I cannot pretend otherwise. In a book full of great characters her segments were a joy to read.

BEST/WORSE/BEST NEW CHARACTER - I did not expect to enjoy Rant. His intro was dark and had a tone of futility and despair that, while not quite the Rhivi, didn't grab me at all. Then he met Damisk... ok, given the history there was some potential there. Then he met the Jheck and the narrator gave them these amazing 'Russian accents' and he got a Shi'gal in his knife and a pack of Teblor dogs and yeah... yeah that worked. The frustration and push-pull of his relationshps with his sisters was well done.

OTHERS - I enjoyed Damisk's story. His encounter w the War-Bitch and visit to the Beast Hold were very much the kind of 'random but not really random' multi-level story I read Malazan for. His end was appropriate.
...i do hope we see the giant grey bear and the four-armed Beast god thing again.

Oames was fun. His relationship w the 'limbs pulling off demon woman' was both creepy and interesting and also ew but mostly interesting, and the running joke about him being a Claw was great. The ultimate revelation that he was in fact a Talon was a nice touch paired w the discovery that Cots and ST are still around.

Captain Gruff was a greatest Malazan Captain ever. The narrator did SO MUCH great work w his voice, you could easily accept him as someone who painted his armor to make it pretty and then picked up a sword ready to hold a line w his troops.

So Bleak was fun. His perspective was nicely 'human'. The whole thing with Sgt Shrake was funny.

Spindle was great... it's amazing to consider just how much this character has been through in this series. The way he was respected and held in just a little awe but still very much a part of the ranks, part of the foundation of the broken little Legion whether or not anyone believed he was a Bridgeburner. I liked his interaction w Rolly, it was a nice touch.


The Marines were just treat after treat... Belker, sneaky mage who also happens to be an absolute beast w a sword, the heavies (OH DEAR GODS THE HEAVIES), Anyx and her experiments, Snack and his collection, Raiyal under-cover... just memorable character after character gloriously bounding off each other.

UPGRADES - The Marine Legion. Holy Hells this was just a great concept and FFS it was Mallick Rel's idea.


THE KABOOM - Moranth munitions have been replaced by the Fiddling Hedge Drum. YES. (i acknowledge that generally land mines are a horrible horrible thing but will make an exception here)

IM NOT CRYING YOURE CRYING - the Marines at Culver trying to save the Teblor... wow. Just... wow.

BEST SWITCH - again and again the book reminds us that the Malazans got their butts kicked by Balk's mercs... and then the glorious glorious revelation about what actually happened... 1000 mercs, 50 Malazans with orders not to attack, three entire squads not even in the fight and ... and .... and... yeah, WOW.

OH HI MONKRAT - Monkrat and Spindel's chat in ch11 about the Bridgeburners ascension and the Runts was soooooo gooood.

RAKE! - That is all.

I WANT TO KNOW MORE - Rolly's mission to spank a Jaghut. The Beast Hold God. War-Bitch's history w the Lizard d'ivers Iron Bars killed. The Runts. Why K'Chain Chemalle (not Nahruk) are pillaging Holds.

More soon, i think, but those are my thoughts having Just Finished.
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#62 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 22 July 2021 - 03:53 AM

SCENE WE DIDN'T GET THAT I REALLY REALLY WANTED

*Massive wave bearing down on Malazans*
SPINDLE: Stillwater!
STILLWATER: Wut sargeant?
SPIN: *points at wave* Go kill that for me.
SW: Wtf???
SPIN: You're an assassin mage. Go assassinate. With... magery. Or something.
SW: But... no... i....
SPIN: THAT WAS AN ORDER SOLDIER
SW: Yessir. Could you look somewhere else for a moment?
SPIN: HOODS BALLSICLES GET TO IT NOW STILLWATER
SW: Right, sorry, going... *jumps into warren*
*massive wave gets closer... closer... closerrrrrrr... and just sort of dissolves*
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#63 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 22 July 2021 - 03:54 AM

BESTEST STILLWATER LINE: "He just wanted a bath."
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#64 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 22 July 2021 - 04:45 AM

View PostAbyss, on 22 July 2021 - 03:54 AM, said:

BESTEST STILLWATER LINE: "Poor everyone."

They came with white hands and left with red hands.
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#65 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 23 July 2021 - 02:25 PM

View Postworry, on 22 July 2021 - 04:45 AM, said:

View PostAbyss, on 22 July 2021 - 03:54 AM, said:

BESTEST STILLWATER LINE: "Poor everyone."



Not bestest but arguably MOST DRAMATIC.

I loved that about Stillwater... she's essentially a complete psychopath prone to killing people close to her, who joined the Marines because it gives her other killing options and/or people close to her tend to die anyways.


...also, an heiress, a lawyer, a soldier, an entirely competent Meanas mage, a thief, a con artist, the host for a millennia old High Mage-level witch ghost...



...have i mentioned recently how much i love these books?
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#66 User is offline   Traveller 

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 03:09 PM

I loved it. SE at his absolutw best.

One point from earlier - the priest reenactment of the Unloved Woman this was Tavore/Felisin, right? Does this mean that Tavore did eventually find out that she killed Felisin? I can't find the damn quote now, but wasn't that the scene they were acting out?
So that's the story. And what was the real lesson? Don't leave things in the fridge.
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#67 User is offline   champ 

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 04:54 PM

View PostTraveller, on 24 July 2021 - 03:09 PM, said:

I loved it. SE at his absolutw best.

One point from earlier - the priest reenactment of the Unloved Woman this was Tavore/Felisin, right? Does this mean that Tavore did eventually find out that she killed Felisin? I can't find the damn quote now, but wasn't that the scene they were acting out?



Would seem that way...


Quote

She is the matron of widows or plain women or something. I don’t know. It’s a woman thing. In a central square there is a ritual, hundreds, even thousands, of women standing in a vast circle. The High Priestess steps into the cleared space, wearing plain Malazan armour and wielding a sword with two edges. Her enemy approaches, fully armoured, her head covered in a helm with a face made of iron scales or maybe coins. She too holds a sword, in her right hand.
...
‘But it is the left hand that rises between them,’ Nilghan said. ‘And even as it does so, the High Priestess strikes! Her sword cuts down her enemy! The crowd roars and suddenly everyone is weeping and they’re dragging off the body leaving a streak of blood—’



Brutal...

Tehol said:

'Yet my heart breaks for a naked hen.'
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#68 User is offline   Traveller 

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 05:32 PM

Oh so depends how you read it.. it could just be the story of Tavore ending the rebellion by killing Shaik. Not necessarily with any awareness of who Shaik actually was.
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#69 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 24 July 2021 - 10:56 PM

View PostTraveller, on 24 July 2021 - 05:32 PM, said:

Oh so depends how you read it.. it could just be the story of Tavore ending the rebellion by killing Shaik. Not necessarily with any awareness of who Shaik actually was.


That's my take too.

Finished. SE's best Empire novel since TBH. :thumbsup:
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#70 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 27 July 2021 - 04:22 AM

OTHER BEST NEW CHARACTER: Creature. Just for surviving.

BEST OLD FRIEND IT WAS SO GREAT TO SEE: We got Rake. We got Cots. We got ST. On the balance i give this award to Cotillion for being the character we know and love, just a tiny bit older. Rake was very different in some ways, but a logical change given what little was revealed about him. ST was ST in all his grumpy glory, tho Oames suggestion that there was some sort of worldwide spell to forget him was very interesting.

I'M NOT CRYING YOU'RE CRYING AWARD: When Rant first says, dead serious, that Malazan Marines are nice and there to help, it's... well... wrong. Given everything we know. Honourable, sure, but not... 'nice'. And then Benger and Stillwater and Anyx risk everything to help Sarlis. And the unnamed Marines at CUlver trying to help Dayliss and co. after massacring them a moment earlier. And the squads at Silver Lake doing the same because you're refugees... damn allergies....

WORSE DEATH: Tonith Agra and a nameless marine to a landmine.

BEST SINGLE CHAPTER FULL OF INFO: Chapter 11, Spindle and Monkrat discussing the Bridgeburners ascension was verrrrrrrry interesting.

WHAT THE JHECK???: "All the Jheck...White-furred and black, silver and rust." ...and Spindle just ASSIMILATED THEM INTO THE EMPIRE.
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#71 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

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Posted 29 July 2021 - 09:47 PM

Woah. Finished at last. Too much to comprehend now, should have gone to sleep.

But Woah. Seriously good...
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#72 User is offline   Morgoth 

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 12:49 PM

yeah, I loved it too. Was everything I wanted and hoped to get from SE.
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#73 User is offline   Garak 

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 01:18 PM

There is only one downside to the fact that I loved this book ...... waiting for the next one will be a pain. I want to know if we now have Teblor Marines (I'll laugh my head off if they are assigned as Heavies and then start adopting the heavy lingo), if the Jheck reach a safe place, what's Rant's journey gonna look like, what crisis will our Marines face next book?
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#74 User is offline   Cyphon 

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 04:27 PM

Well I wonder if the next book is Pale to Darjushistan style book as book 2 is when Karsa is slated to appear.

So I wonder if the Marines will feature so prominently. Although I can't think of a book whether they haven't featured at some point bar the Kharkanas trilogy.
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#75 User is offline   Garak 

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Posted 02 August 2021 - 07:39 PM

Midnight Tides. I don't recall any Marines in that one. Which makes sense considering the POV characters and the location.
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#76 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 03 August 2021 - 05:26 AM

View PostGarak, on 02 August 2021 - 07:39 PM, said:

Midnight Tides. I don't recall any Marines in that one. Which makes sense considering the POV characters and the location.


Arguably Iron Bars' squad fills that role.
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#77 User is offline   tiam 

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Posted 03 August 2021 - 09:08 AM

I havnt posted in many years but this book did peak my interest.

Alot more self contained than other books other than damisks journey to the 6 armed vishnu style kccm killer.

The entire book was essentially a bait and switch but not in the same way FOL was with the battle at the end being multiple viewpoints. It was also much more upbeat than FOL in that I can actually remember the difference in the characters whereas alot of the tiste blurred into one.

The book is essentially set up as the teblor killing the empire with a global warming motivation behind the invasions. The bait and swith was that the empire is not the undermanned late empire with no munitions we expectes but simply adapted to high volume mid quality mage cadres, rather than high mage political rivals,with adapted munitions. Since house of chains had the late empire chapter openings we have been waiting for this period and the readers hatred for mallick rel made it easy to think he would lead to the empires downfall. However we have spindles seal of approval for rel and the fact the empire, since the korelri campaign, has been at peace. The fact the teblor are wiped out as an effective threat makes the trilogy alot different than I think people were expecting, including me.

I did like a good focus on the sheer wreckage and impact from karsas raid, called the idiot raid, leading to so much carnage. They were strong plot points and while I did enjoy rant as a character and his story, and I believe he is a much better challenger to karsa than the rathyd warlord who died to munitions/water, he is a bit dumb farm boy finds a magic sword. We havnt seen much of the shigal but they weren't spirits living near vortexes more practical guardians. Not a huge point but a convenient power boost.

Same with oams as well. He had a random deus ex machina that was protecting him. If we had a focus on a kccm burial ground or something inline with the northern genabackis toblakai, imass, jaghut ice and previous forkrul assail captive then the shigal for rant and oams guardian being a matron (matron vibes given the Toc like cuddling after saving him from Bray) would make sense.

Overall I liked it but would be curious on a few points

Any speculation what a shigal is doing there or what Oams guardian is?

The Damisk beast hold reminds me very much of Loric in the raraku memory. Any ideas there? Or on the most powerful god we have seen so far? Seemed a mix of the 4 founding races.

Is 7c in the empire? There is mention of pilgrimage and malaz soldiers still having access to aren steel. The felisin fatter plot line may have been abandoned from bone hunters and its the only co tinent we havnt revisited. Was there a hint I missed?

Was there any 'this person is secretly this person' in this book? ICE does it alot but SE also likes it but I feel as though there wasn't much of that in this book. I can't remember who died in TCG but I'm sure the 14th legion was mentioned. Like I was expecting gruff to be me intoned in detail for example but we never really got it.

This was essentially a soft reboot of the series with new magic, not the threats we thought of and a trilogy that I am not clear on where it will go.

Still an excellent read. I have written this on my phone so apologies for any errors.

This post has been edited by tiam: 03 August 2021 - 09:18 AM

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#78 User is offline   blackzoid 

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Posted 04 August 2021 - 01:05 PM

Yap. For years since House of Chains we thought "what the hell will the Empire do if an entire people of Karsa's attacks? They will overrun everything!" Answer, the same way they respond to everything else....with munitions. I find that somewhat disappointing personally as I was hoping that the book would commit to finding new solutions to problems instead of the same old way.
(I think ive been sick of munitions since RotCG and RG. Everything always seems to go too easy for the Malazans with their use. Perhaps its time for SE and ICE to go full steam-punk on the Malazan world and give the opposition munitions and other chemical warfare elements? Just to balance things out)
Kidna sick of the marines/heavies always being portrayed as almost saint-like as well. Teblor want to become marines for saving them? Of course they do. Marine legions? Of course.

Other points, as a non-fan of Karsa I loved the use of Rant to show and re-iterate and remind us all that yes, Karsa was a fucking rapist. What happened to Rants mother should be shoved in Karsa's face. Ive never respected Karsa's holier-then-thou attitude when it came to judging others. I was very surprised that the Warleader from the start seemed to be offed. Maybe it was always a bait and switch so to fool us into thinking that he would survive to the end to challange Karsa. Karsa versus Rant may be the big showdown.
I really did like Stillwater, she was a very good and funny character.
I loved the ties to ICE's work especially the reference that officially the Jaghut-Imass war is over, as was mentioned in Assail. (I read Assail just before this and it was great how well it continued the theme of Jaghut Ice melting)
Rel being a great Emperor was the icing on the cake.
Coltaine's worship being called the "Black-Winged Lord" was confusing as that was what the worship of Rake was entitled in Bluerose.

A good book, some niggling points but they go along with how SE writes (marines being always wonderful and amazing, infinite cussers) and if Ive gotten this far, I have to accept them.
I do echo that with the Teblor invasion seemingly over, its hard to see where SE takes the next two books. But thats exciting!

I do hope SE does complete Walk in Shadow though.

This post has been edited by blackzoid: 04 August 2021 - 01:11 PM

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#79 User is offline   tiam 

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Posted 04 August 2021 - 01:36 PM

I had the same panic mate but he has confirmed he will complete the trilogy. Its not selling though and this may sell more so wouldn't surprise me if the witness trilogy is done before the kharkanas one.

Regarding the munitions it was more of the same but I do think it was set up a bit better as it was deliberate misinformation about the munitions. Usually they run out/running low but then have that one more cusser when the plot demands. This is more of an adaptation of using malazan tactics as they can't replicate the moranth destruction so they seed the battle ground.

I think the steam punk point is true. Its interesting that magic seems to have stifled technological innovation but now everyone is a mage they seem to be going towards basic gunpowder units. Magic seems even more accessible now so maybe that won't be the way of it but it would be interesting. Magic has always taken the point of artillery especially in previous books with high mages. This is more ICE in RotCG with the lower end guard mages clearing up against plain infantry.

It might be worth having a thread to get all of the later empire references we have throughout the books.
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#80 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 04 August 2021 - 01:39 PM

View Postblackzoid, on 04 August 2021 - 01:05 PM, said:

Yap. For years since House of Chains we thought "what the hell will the Empire do if an entire people of Karsa's attacks? They will overrun everything!" Answer, the same way they respond to everything else....with munitions. I find that somewhat disappointing personally as I was hoping that the book would commit to finding new solutions to problems instead of the same old way.
(I think ive been sick of munitions since RotCG and RG. Everything always seems to go too easy for the Malazans with their use.


The munitions were the answer, but first they had to wage a campaign of disinformation, and then use the Fiddling Hedge technique which was invented in the previous series. and THEN everything backfired and killed a bunch of marines too.

Easy...? I think not.

Also, munitions run out and had the wave not hit the Malazans would have discovered the Teblor resistance to magic the hard way.



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