[Barghast]

Aranatha, on 18 May 2020 - 08:32 PM, said:

Barghast, on 18 May 2020 - 08:29 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 18 May 2020 - 07:54 PM, said:

look at Barghast's reason to vote Rikkter - it seems more that he thinks Rikkter plays the game too well. What kind of argument even is that?

In-between lines of what did you read that?

If it's not a correct assessment, then what's the real case against Rikkter then? Because I don't see it atm.

Don't claim having a case

Mostly Rikkter's case comes off as ingenuine to me

[Gait]

The case against Rikkter as I understand it "summarized":

Jalan Votes Rikkter because Rikkter was first on the Okral Lom train.
Rikkter also refused to jump off the Hanas train onto thyr till EOD.

I land a vote on Rikkter to hear what he has to say.
roughly 5 posts later Rikkter is on building a case starting with a Day 1 read.
This raised a few flags.

Rikkter proceeds to build a case starting with "SL has sympic interactions so who is SLs master?"

now the main thing I think nailing Rikkter is the early Vote on Tennes. being on at the time I note all players werent ok with this because as Rikkter built the case he said he included SL in as this case being built as he read, however that early vote on Tennes screams premeditation.

I remove vote at this point and vote Tennes to get a response. Tennes responds and questions the logic of this case against his vote activity and declines to engage.

Please let me know If I am missing anything?

[Path-Shaper]

It is day 3. About 14 hours remaining. (Tuesday midday BST) Gives me a chance to post final hours. (Excuse any mistakes as I am trying to keep up manually).

17 people left alive. Aranatha, Gait, Gamelon, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Kilava, Okaros, Osseric, Prazec Goul, Rikkter, Ruse, Sheltatha Lore, Tennes, Venesara.

4 votes Rikkter; Jalan, Barghast Sheltatha Lore, Fanderay
1 vote Ruse; Tennes
3 votes Tennes; Rikkter, Gait, Aranatha
1 vote Venesara; Kalse

Players not voted; Gamelon, Hanas, Kilava, Okaros, Osseric, Prazec Goul, Ruse, Venesara.

[Fanderay]

Sheltatha Lore, on 18 May 2020 - 08:06 PM, said:

Fanderay, on 18 May 2020 - 08:04 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 18 May 2020 - 07:54 PM, said:

Just look at how Fanderay clearly states he doesn't want to vote for Rikkter - as in setting up for the result already before the lynch even happens - a clear signal they already KNOW he's inno. Makes me think he's scum that clearly doesn't want a train on tennes, and is trying to divert it elsewhere.

When did I say I didn't want to vote for Rikkter?

Welcome to my world. Get used to it.

Every time I interact with Aranatha, I feel more and more sorry for you. Interacting with her is painful.

Aranatha, on 18 May 2020 - 08:18 PM, said:

I understand not agreeing with a case, but this vote seems like an overreaction and a deliberate prop up of a case to divert from the Tennes case. Ending with the comment about Thyr mentioning Rikkter - completely side stepping the fact that Thyr VOTED for FANDERAY before he got lynched. That's worth a lot more scrutiny than a random comment - so talk about hypocritical. My vote on tennes stands.

The fuck? Why would I be analyzing Thyr's vote on me? No matter which alignment I am, I'd say it indicates I'm town. You'd have better luck just going up to people and just asking if they're town or scum.
I believe most people have just taken it as a WIFOM situation, if you know what that is. I think it was just flailing scum throwing out shit and hoping something stuck.

Barghast, on 18 May 2020 - 08:29 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 18 May 2020 - 07:54 PM, said:

look at Barghast's reason to vote Rikkter - it seems more that he thinks Rikkter plays the game too well. What kind of argument even is that?

In-between lines of what did you read that?

I think Aranatha probably went back, saw this: "I wish my rereads had such perfect forms of cases complete with a vote at their beginning", and completely missed your point.

[Tennes]

Jalan and Rikkter first and then Kilava in a separate post because it will include quotes.

*Jalan*

There is almost nothing to look at here in therms of content. Half of Jalan's posts is just banter. But the votes are interesting:
* D1 vote is extremely safe one to put Okral at L-2.
* D2 is the second vote on Thyr.
* D3 is the first vote against Rikkter.

So despite contributing barely any messages, Jalan actually sticks their neck out with those D2 and D3 votes. I also bitched earlier about how Rikkter was getting zero scrutiny despite being an important albeit not very visible piece in the whole 'was Thyr D1 train derailed' kerfuffle, so someone finally coming for them is a good sign. Where is your promised elaboration, though, Jalan?

Jalan, on 16 May 2020 - 11:31 AM, said:

Rikkter, on 13 May 2020 - 12:48 AM, said:

Aranatha is 0 to 60 on this case (blocks of text, tl/dr style). I think the theory of a dumb as shit symp is worth a peek, but right now, Okral caught my eye the most. I never like it when players break the 4th wall and discount their own suspicious behavior in advance in an attempt to forestall suspicion. It is a self awareness that provides an anchor to the claim that they were just being helpful, sorry to seem scummy, nothing to see here. A few other players did this "durr sorry I am scummy" today, but right now, Okral stood out in the context of everything becoming srs biz.

Vote Okral

The first Okral vote. Also would not vote Thyr. I will get a bit more comprehensive when I can this weekend. But for now.

Vote Rikkter

Anyway, Jalan was one of the first people to put a spotlight on Thyr in post 84 (not quoting for readability). You could maybe claim this was distancing but then with the D2 vote on Thyr, that would be a lot of distancing that also backfired spectacularly. So Jalan reads fairly clean to me.

*Rikkter*

Rikkter definitely doesn't shy away from sticking their neck out. The difference from Jalan, that I only noticed on a closer look, is that Rikkter's game is based on a pattern. They show up with a new case, present their arguments against someone with no votes at the moment, and then ignore the rest of the thread. Rikkter cast the first vote on Okral, the first vote on Hanas, and the first vote on me. All these votes followed a specific reasoning, so can't really hold that against Rikkter. Okral case was decent enough for D1 and I almost followed their lead on Hanas on D2 myself. But after Rikkter made the first two cases, they vanished nearly completely, and regarding the third they posted walls upon walls of text and never entertained any discussion about anything else.

Get in, start a train, get out, rinse and repeat - Rikkter in a nutshell. The only deviations from this were a poke at Fanderay for their drive-by on Okral (186) and a reply to Gait which then Rikkter used to set up the Hanas case (307).

Playing along a pattern is suspicious because it indicates planning ahead. The only people who have the comfort to do that are scum. But then, it could be just a matter of play style. A bigger red flag is how Rikkter went from a coaster to an essayist the moment the tiniest bit of pressure was applied to them. Rikkter went nuclear as soon as someone voted on them which is telling.

Potentially scummy, but damn that would be a ballsy way to play a killer.

[Gait]

The case against Tennes as I understand it "summarized"

Rikkters builds a case on Tennes around posts 514 -537

the meat of it is Post 521 & 522

These are the closest any player gets to full on defending Thyr.

Being a case I already find suspicious I am interested not by the case but the vote tennes makes on Thyr and how Rikkter reads it.

Rikkter, on 17 May 2020 - 07:16 PM, said:

Tennes, on 15 May 2020 - 05:58 PM, said:

Decision time.

Like I said, Venesara case seemed solid to me but on another read they just feel too sloppy to be scum.

It's a toss up between Thyr and Hanas. Both are coasters, both feel scummy, both had a blunder of a post. Neither case feels stronger to me so I'm gonna go with a pragmatic vote. More people so far have commented on Thyr and I think their CF is more valuable than Hanas's.

Remove vote.

Vote Thyr.

AHHHHHH, there it is. The vote on Thyr from Tennes, middle of the road of course, with more caveats to down play this vote all the way, even offering up Hanas as the alternative, someone he has not spent too much time fingering up to this point. 5 votes on Thyr at this point is a risky proposition, but the weight of the thread is still fixated on Thyr's odd behavior, and if Tennes is going to claim they are innocent of being in cahoots, they need to make their presence on the lynch train early enough to look supportive not just capitulating a the last minute.

And I believe this is what decides either case. Is Rikkter right, or is Tennes genuine.

Thats really what it boils down to.

[Barghast]

Fanderay, on 18 May 2020 - 09:02 PM, said:

Barghast, on 18 May 2020 - 08:29 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 18 May 2020 - 07:54 PM, said:

look at Barghast's reason to vote Rikkter - it seems more that he thinks Rikkter plays the game too well. What kind of argument even is that?

In-between lines of what did you read that?

I think Aranatha probably went back, saw this: "I wish my rereads had such perfect forms of cases complete with a vote at their beginning", and completely missed your point.

Sounds about right

[Tennes]

*Kilava*

Well this one I was approaching with near childlike excitement and curiosity because off the top of my head, I couldn't recall one vote or opinion Kilava had. Remarkable coasting so far.

D1, Kilava has no presence.

D2 they open guns blazing on Venesara:

Kilava, on 14 May 2020 - 02:18 PM, said:

also, fuck, whoops. oh well

Venesara, on 14 May 2020 - 01:35 PM, said:

Barghast, on 13 May 2020 - 07:09 PM, said:

Then who do you find scummy?

Well, I had an eye on Merrid, which was dumb apparently.

I was thinking about your post from the 1st page, but I don't believe anybody else was concerned, so I'm not hanging on to that one much

Nobody really sticking out

not if you are the scum...jeez

dawg l2multiquote. stop peddling your post padding garbage just get it THE HELL OUT OF HERE

also nice distancing keep repeating how little you had to do with merrid and how dumb you were to even think it oh lordy how shall you survive your own stupidity except by posting about it !! i'm sure you did have your little eye on merrid

vote venesara

Nothing wrote with the vote per se, but it's audacious to skip D1 completely, then pick a fairly easy target and go HAM. Later on Kilava started sniffing around Osseric and switched from Ven to Thyr to make the count 3-6. From the way I read it, it was Osseric's vote on Ven that prompted the switch:

Kilava, on 15 May 2020 - 07:09 PM, said:

aah.... was copy pasta and clicked reply...

Osseric, on 15 May 2020 - 03:14 PM, said:

Sheltatha is spreading his focus out very thin. To me it comes across as wanting to appear like they're looking at who's scum, but adding different players to their mix to broaden their chances.

I like the Hanas train except for Sheltatha being on it. The Thyrllan train would be easy to jump on. There's little friction to doing so.

Being the filthy low poster, I need to look at the Venesara train in more detail, but I would happily vote for Sheltatha if there weren't two fundamental trains in process.

Thyrllan's train is the easiest to board.

I have to do the most with my time, which is to see which lynch will shed the most light on the game. Which player has had the most connections.

Osseric, on 15 May 2020 - 03:23 PM, said:

This post sticks out the most to me, and then there is the string of Thyrllan posts that are nothing short of boosting their post count. I could go with either.

vote Venesara

Around to switch votes to Thyrllan as well.

Osseric, on 15 May 2020 - 03:26 PM, said:

It's what I see. You don't have a train on you, and I'm not going to make a new one. Not right now.

this reads so weird to me, why the obsession with being on the "right" train, as if there were such a thing? he mentions hanas, thyr, and ven....then said he would vote shelly if not for the TWO trains going...OK....

thyr's train is easiest? you can go with either? you're around to switch? you will only vote for trains not start new ones?

@ this point ven is @ 3 and thyr is @ 4 and osseric drops a vote on ven to tie the votes and make either train viable now, it took a vote from tennes to put thyr ahead. why not just vote thyr if you think it is the best option, and why put your vote elsewhere? it looks like you are trying to push any opportunity to get ven lynched and hiding behind a proposed thyr vote if you decide to, I guess...yeah, I don't like it, this doesn't make sense. also those posts are train wrecks of garbage (see what I did there) but crappy play isn't the main problem

need to look at osseric tomorrow and hopefully ven / hanas show up. I was here to switch if needed anyway, knowing that if I pulled my vote from ven everything unbalances and thyr is the only target. it seems like osseric cares more about thyr not getting lynched than lynching ven, and I don't like that either, when thyr was ahead 3/4.

remove vote

vote thyrllan

Kilava promised to elaborate more on their Osseric suspicions and said they're cooking up a case a moment ago, so I'm curious to hear more before I form an opinion.

[Tennes]

Gait, on 18 May 2020 - 08:49 PM, said:

[snip]

I remove vote at this point and vote Tennes to get a response. Tennes responds and questions the logic of this case against his vote activity and declines to engage.
[snip]

I don't think that's a fair representation of me. I did engage and explain why Rikkter's case is bunk. It's incoherent and I pointed out how exactly. Then I moved on. When I have a more complex point to make, I post a longer message (clearly ) but this is straightforward.

Now, real talk. Is there any interest to pursue Ruse? I feel better about my vote on them right now than I'd feel about anyone else. They're coasting, waiting for a train to build, dropping a safe late vote and then disappearing again. Safely disengaged from any real discussion but present enough to vote and claim participation. It screams low-posting scum to me.

[Gait]

It occurs to me how wild it would be for scum if both Thyr and Venesara were infact Killers.

Imagine knowing either choice was bad.



It would also explain the Thyr Fandaray vote.

[Gait]

Gait, on 18 May 2020 - 09:23 PM, said:

It occurs to me how wild it would be for scum if both Thyr and Venesara were infact Killers.

Imagine knowing either choice was bad.



It would also explain the Thyr Fandaray vote.

Equally wild, Venesara has not landed a single vote all game...

[Barghast]

Tennes, on 18 May 2020 - 09:23 PM, said:

Now, real talk. Is there any interest to pursue Ruse? I feel better about my vote on them right now than I'd feel about anyone else. They're coasting, waiting for a train to build, dropping a safe late vote and then disappearing again. Safely disengaged from any real discussion but present enough to vote and claim participation. It screams low-posting scum to me.

It's interesting that despite how little he was active he did manage to sneak in a L-2 "the only viable candidate today" vote for Thyr shortly after the votes swung there from alternatives

Actually came in with this right after the vote of yours put Thyr in lead with 5 votes

Ruse, on 15 May 2020 - 06:17 PM, said:

Yesterday was a bad day for me with my wrist potentially seriously injured. Sorry about the lack of activity.

Don't have the time to catch up currently but I will be around to vote if needed.

Then came in to hammer 2 hours and 2 votes later

Ruse, on 15 May 2020 - 08:15 PM, said:

Vote Thyrllan

As the most likely lynch candidate at this stage. I note that I am completely fine with this lynch because it was rather interesting how D1 attention moved away from him.

Skintick, on 15 May 2020 - 08:22 PM, said:

Ruse, on 15 May 2020 - 08:15 PM, said:

Vote Thyrllan

As the most likely lynch candidate at this stage. I note that I am completely fine with this lynch because it was rather interesting how D1 attention moved away from him.

This is a bullshit reason, and everyone perpetuating this needs to be looked at closely.

2 joke votes in the early part of Day 1 do not equal to "attention" or 'a serious train"

And the now deceased Skintick may have a point here

(whoever said it's clear that Skintick was killed because scum thought they'd be the finder? cause I disagree it's that clear)

[Tennes]

That was Okaros:

Okaros, on 17 May 2020 - 10:13 AM, said:

I find it amusing that Aranatha and Shel are both screaming EXPLAIN YOUR CASE!!! at each other. Other than that I find myself skimming over their posts, so the exchange has been pretty good at totally muddying the thread. I'm going to attempt a read of Thyr's posts and interactions today, as well as a couple of other people. I think it's pretty clear that Skintick was killed because scum suspected him of being a finder after voting for Thyrrlan.

I'm not sure about the merits of discussing NK reasoning.

[Sheltatha Lore]

I believe it’s because Skintick came on day 2 and went straight for Thyrllan again like a dog with a bone.

If I remember correctly

[Gait]

Sheltatha Lore, on 18 May 2020 - 09:48 PM, said:

I believe it’s because Skintick came on day 2 and went straight for Thyrllan again like a dog with a bone.

If I remember correctly

Yes, First vote on thyr twice in a row.

[Barghast]

Gait, on 18 May 2020 - 09:50 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 18 May 2020 - 09:48 PM, said:

I believe it’s because Skintick came on day 2 and went straight for Thyrllan again like a dog with a bone.

If I remember correctly

Yes, First vote on thyr twice in a row.

Which might point to a finder but likely would have Skin nked even if there wasn't one in the game

Tennes, on 18 May 2020 - 09:44 PM, said:

That was Okaros:

Okaros, on 17 May 2020 - 10:13 AM, said:

I find it amusing that Aranatha and Shel are both screaming EXPLAIN YOUR CASE!!! at each other. Other than that I find myself skimming over their posts, so the exchange has been pretty good at totally muddying the thread. I'm going to attempt a read of Thyr's posts and interactions today, as well as a couple of other people. I think it's pretty clear that Skintick was killed because scum suspected him of being a finder after voting for Thyrrlan.

I'm not sure about the merits of discussing NK reasoning.

anyway
Skin's post just reminded me of the rule to always kill those who voice suspicion against you as a killer, but with the above in mind that's probably irrelevant anyway

[Barghast]

Barghast, on 18 May 2020 - 09:38 PM, said:

Tennes, on 18 May 2020 - 09:23 PM, said:

Now, real talk. Is there any interest to pursue Ruse? I feel better about my vote on them right now than I'd feel about anyone else. They're coasting, waiting for a train to build, dropping a safe late vote and then disappearing again. Safely disengaged from any real discussion but present enough to vote and claim participation. It screams low-posting scum to me.

It's interesting that despite how little he was active he did manage to sneak in a L-2 "the only viable candidate today" vote for Thyr shortly after the votes swung there from alternatives

Actually came in with this right after the vote of yours put Thyr in lead with 5 votes

Ruse, on 15 May 2020 - 06:17 PM, said:

Yesterday was a bad day for me with my wrist potentially seriously injured. Sorry about the lack of activity.

Don't have the time to catch up currently but I will be around to vote if needed.

Then came in to hammer 2 hours and 2 votes later

Ruse, on 15 May 2020 - 08:15 PM, said:

Vote Thyrllan

As the most likely lynch candidate at this stage. I note that I am completely fine with this lynch because it was rather interesting how D1 attention moved away from him.

Skintick, on 15 May 2020 - 08:22 PM, said:

Ruse, on 15 May 2020 - 08:15 PM, said:

Vote Thyrllan

As the most likely lynch candidate at this stage. I note that I am completely fine with this lynch because it was rather interesting how D1 attention moved away from him.

This is a bullshit reason, and everyone perpetuating this needs to be looked at closely.

2 joke votes in the early part of Day 1 do not equal to "attention" or 'a serious train"

And the now deceased Skintick may have a point here

(whoever said it's clear that Skintick was killed because scum thought they'd be the finder? cause I disagree it's that clear)

Ruse also haven't posted this day yet, but I'll be surprised if he doesn't come on with a single two line post or two before the eod

[Kilava]

gonna take me a minute to post this...

standby

[Barghast]

Tennes, on 18 May 2020 - 09:23 PM, said:

Now, real talk. Is there any interest to pursue Ruse? I feel better about my vote on them right now than I'd feel about anyone else. They're coasting, waiting for a train to build, dropping a safe late vote and then disappearing again. Safely disengaged from any real discussion but present enough to vote and claim participation. It screams low-posting scum to me.

What happened to your suspicion of Prazec?

[Barghast]

Gait, on 18 May 2020 - 09:23 PM, said:

It occurs to me how wild it would be for scum if both Thyr and Venesara were infact Killers.

Imagine knowing either choice was bad.



It would also explain the Thyr Fandaray vote.

"Imagine how wild it would be if... " statements are suspicious even irl