[Sheltatha Lore]

Gait, on 18 May 2020 - 02:05 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 18 May 2020 - 10:39 AM, said:

Looking at this now...
Considering Thyr is scum...why at this point would he not simply jump onto a push against Rikkte here?... it would be dead easy and non suspicious to simply agree.
instead he makes an excuse for Rikkter's aggressiveness brushing it off? It wouldn't hurt him at all to have added to the argument against Rikkter if Rikkter is inno yet he seems to be defending them.

Seems like he was subtly is trying to disregard looking at Rikkter to me.

remove vote
Vote Rikkter


I assume all the symp shouting will come out at me shortly, but I am gonna keep calling it as I see it.

Jump onto Rikkter????

Venesara had a viable case at the time and Thyr seemed iffy about it but willing. Why didnt he jump there instead? Thyrs vote on Fandaray lacked any follow up whatsoever. Of ALL the players Thyr pointed fingers at, none actually had anything going except for Venesara and Thyr pointedly overlooked that.

Why would you now use this as reasoning to vote Rikkter? It's blatant support of Thyrs read.

I cant tell if this is calculated or actually just really bad symp play.

Its simple... Thyr Straight up made an excuse for Rikkter's "aggressive play" for no damn reason what so ever win that post, what would Thyr gain from making an excuse for Rikkter there? tell me?

That coupled with Rikkter getting two votes today and then spamming the thread with a day one "symp case" in a panic.
It seems like it deserved a vote to apply pressure to the other side of the argument.
After all I KNOW I am not a symp.
So I KNOW at least half his case is complete horse shit.
I also tend to agree with Barghast and as I think Bargy should be most likely inno considering there continual pushing of Thyrllan case early on. And guess where is vote lies?

It doesn't matter what I do today. Either way I will get fingered as a symp by some. And thats fine. It will shed light later on in the game when more peoples roles get revealed and then we will see what is what.

[Kilava]

busy weekend all around it seems.... i am here and reading

[Sheltatha Lore]

Personally...im looking at Kalse, Gait, Rikkter, Aranatha and to a lesser degree Tennes, as the group to find at least one killer and one symp in (two killers if there is no symp).
This is based upon my reread on Saturday, and then what has happened since. Tennes did also ping me when I re-read but not as much.


So i'm not very surprised to see the thread start devolve into almost "two sides".
Looking at how it's gone, it actually seems to be lining up pretty much how I suspected.

I would go and make a case but it seems it will simply all get chalked down to symp misdirection and fall on deaf ears. and my time is limited today to only short spells of activity.

The only way we can tell what's what, is to Lynch someone.
So if we must Lynch Tennes or myself to see who's talking shit and who is straight up... then so be it.
I obviously prefer to Lynch the other "side" as I know I am not a symp and can't condone a case that bases itself off of that fact, now can I?

I would vote any way right now to simply get the info at this point... however... I feel that the opposition to Tennes need also to account for themselves and not simply railroad the day with a long ass day one symp case.
One good thing is...There is LOTS to go on with todays stuff. but unfortunately the info is only spread among us few vocal people and the coasters...are all still coasting.

[Gait]

Sides...

Ok so heres the thing that we need to establish early. You don't ever build factions in day discussion. If you act as if its us vs them you instantly have blinkers on, Only scum encourage that. You reduce a 90% chance to catch scum to a 45% chance. Far as I can tell you are siding with people that echo your opinion. setting yourself up with Jalan, Bharghast and Tennes. That's on you.

If they are happy to sit in that group thats up to them.

Far as I am concerned everyone could be scum. If someone actually reads this game better than I have and convinces me of it, I will vote.
I will follow arguments for killer play, not Symp play.

Sheltatha Lore, on 18 May 2020 - 02:37 PM, said:

Personally...im looking at Kalse, Gait, Rikkter, Aranatha and to a lesser degree Tennes, as the group to find at least one killer and one symp in (two killers if there is no symp).
This is based upon my reread on Saturday, and then what has happened since. Tennes did also ping me when I re-read but not as much.


So i'm not very surprised to see the thread start devolve into almost "two sides".
Looking at how it's gone, it actually seems to be lining up pretty much how I suspected.

I would go and make a case but it seems it will simply all get chalked down to symp misdirection and fall on deaf ears. and my time is limited today to only short spells of activity.

The only way we can tell what's what, is to Lynch someone.
So if we must Lynch Tennes or myself to see who's talking shit and who is straight up... then so be it.
I obviously prefer to Lynch the other "side" as I know I am not a symp and can't condone a case that bases itself off of that fact, now can I?

I would vote any way right now to simply get the info at this point... however... I feel that the opposition to Tennes need also to account for themselves and not simply railroad the day with a long ass day one symp case.
One good thing is...There is LOTS to go on with todays stuff. but unfortunately the info is only spread among us few vocal people and the coasters...are all still coasting.

Here you have offered yourself up as a possible vote. That would be idiotic. if you're a symp voting on you would be a waste of a lynch.
Tennes makes sense, frikken Rikkter makes sense but a vote on you doesnt make sense and any townie on a train with a player offering either-ors should be careful.

[Sheltatha Lore]

Gait, on 18 May 2020 - 02:56 PM, said:

Sides...

Ok so heres the thing that we need to establish early. You don't ever build factions in day discussion. If you act as if its us vs them you instantly have blinkers on, Only scum encourage that. You reduce a 90% chance to catch scum to a 45% chance. Far as I can tell you are siding with people that echo your opinion. setting yourself up with Jalan, Bharghast and Tennes. That's on you.

If they are happy to sit in that group thats up to them.

Far as I am concerned everyone could be scum. If someone actually reads this game better than I have and convinces me of it, I will vote.
I will follow arguments for killer play, not Symp play.

I need to borrow your mafia rule book then oh great Mafia Paterfamilias. I BOW down to your greatness!
pppppfffffttt

ima call it as I see it.
It' funny to me how the people I had quietly been suspecting have seemed to devolve into a group...thats worth NOTING.
I could give two shits what time of day it is.

Other than that, I don't care what you think about my play to be honest.

Gait, on 18 May 2020 - 02:56 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 18 May 2020 - 02:37 PM, said:

Personally...im looking at Kalse, Gait, Rikkter, Aranatha and to a lesser degree Tennes, as the group to find at least one killer and one symp in (two killers if there is no symp).
This is based upon my reread on Saturday, and then what has happened since. Tennes did also ping me when I re-read but not as much.


So i'm not very surprised to see the thread start devolve into almost "two sides".
Looking at how it's gone, it actually seems to be lining up pretty much how I suspected.

I would go and make a case but it seems it will simply all get chalked down to symp misdirection and fall on deaf ears. and my time is limited today to only short spells of activity.

The only way we can tell what's what, is to Lynch someone.
So if we must Lynch Tennes or myself to see who's talking shit and who is straight up... then so be it.
I obviously prefer to Lynch the other "side" as I know I am not a symp and can't condone a case that bases itself off of that fact, now can I?

I would vote any way right now to simply get the info at this point... however... I feel that the opposition to Tennes need also to account for themselves and not simply railroad the day with a long ass day one symp case.
One good thing is...There is LOTS to go on with todays stuff. but unfortunately the info is only spread among us few vocal people and the coasters...are all still coasting.

Here you have offered yourself up as a possible vote. That would be idiotic. if you're a symp voting on you would be a waste of a lynch.
Tennes makes sense, frikken Rikkter makes sense but a vote on you doesnt make sense and any townie on a train with a player offering either-ors should be careful.

Offered myself? no its just a fact. any one of our results would be valuable info. considering the weekends action.

I suppose its convenient for you to forget that I actually do have a vote and separate "case" on myself by Aranathas already... but I guess that doesn't suit your "symp narrative" at all then does it?

As usual someone makes a claim that someones else is a symp to push a case...and everything this supposed "symp" now says, is going to be looked at through rose tinted glasses from then on.
This is one reason why symp cases are garbage.
Any time I make a comment now... im gonna be judged against this fucking symp claim.
And sheeple LAP IT UP.

So Is that how you gonna play it?...aaaight. Up to you I guess. Mr Mafia Paterfamilias.

I prefer to not let Rikkters claim cloud or effect my comments. And I don't know what makes you so sure that you need to take his claim as fact. But ok...
Seems talking about or defending myself against anything for the rest of the day is... as I thought... going to be a waste of my fucking time.

lovely.

EDIT-bad grammar as usual

This post has been edited by Sheltatha Lore: 18 May 2020 - 03:25 PM

[Barghast]

How do you play mafia without siding with anyone? Vote trains literally are alliances. What town needs is an alliance against scum, and it can hardly win without it. Of course you can never fully trust anyone but still majority of people you interact with here are on your side and you need to cooperate with them to win. You can never know who's scum and who's not, but nevertheless you have to make a decision about it sou you can decide who to lynch and who not, which means you always take some side when you vote. And obviously these alliances are not set in stone.

[Gait]

Barghast, on 18 May 2020 - 03:30 PM, said:

How do you play mafia without siding with anyone? Vote trains literally are alliances. What town needs is an alliance against scum, and it can hardly win without it. Of course you can never fully trust anyone but still majority of people you interact with here are on your side and you need to cooperate with them to win. You can never know who's scum and who's not, but nevertheless you have to make a decision about it sou you can decide who to lynch and who not, which means you always take some side when you vote. And obviously these alliances are not set in stone.

This games core mechanic revolves around distrust.

You look at votes and build your own cases. If someone echoes your opinion maybe thats good, but you fact check.
Ultimately you vote for information. If enough evidence appeals to you then you drop a vote.

That doesn't put you on anyones side. By that argument all those on Thyrs train were a side and that couldn't be further from the truth.
The vote links up interest but its not a "side".

[Path-Shaper]

It is day 3. About 18 hours and a half remaining. (Tuesday midday BST) Gives me a chance to post final hours.

17 people left alive. Aranatha, Barghast, Fanderay, Gait, Gamelon, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Kilava, Okaros, Osseric, Prazec Goul, Rikkter, Ruse, Sheltatha Lore, Tennes, Venesara.

1 vote Sheltatha Lore; Aranatha
3 votes Rikkter; Jalan, Tennes, Sheltatha Lore
1 vote Ruse; Tennes
2 votes Tennes; Rikkter, Gait

Players not voted; Fanderay, Gamelon, Hanas, Kalse, Kilava, Okaros, Osseric, Prazec Goul, Ruse, Venesara.

[Gait]

Path-Shaper, on 18 May 2020 - 04:34 PM, said:

It is day 3. About 18 hours and a half remaining. (Tuesday midday BST) Gives me a chance to post final hours.

17 people left alive. Aranatha, Barghast, Fanderay, Gait, Gamelon, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Kilava, Okaros, Osseric, Prazec Goul, Rikkter, Ruse, Sheltatha Lore, Tennes, Venesara.

1 vote Sheltatha Lore; Aranatha
3 votes Rikkter; Jalan, Tennes, Sheltatha Lore
1 vote Ruse; Tennes
2 votes Tennes; Rikkter, Gait

Players not voted; Fanderay, Gamelon, Hanas, Kalse, Kilava, Okaros, Osseric, Prazec Goul, Ruse, Venesara.

Hi PS, you missed Bharghast.

[Barghast]

My vote is missing Tatts

Gait, on 18 May 2020 - 04:09 PM, said:

Barghast, on 18 May 2020 - 03:30 PM, said:

How do you play mafia without siding with anyone? Vote trains literally are alliances. What town needs is an alliance against scum, and it can hardly win without it. Of course you can never fully trust anyone but still majority of people you interact with here are on your side and you need to cooperate with them to win. You can never know who's scum and who's not, but nevertheless you have to make a decision about it sou you can decide who to lynch and who not, which means you always take some side when you vote. And obviously these alliances are not set in stone.

This games core mechanic revolves around distrust.

You look at votes and build your own cases. If someone echoes your opinion maybe thats good, but you fact check.
Ultimately you vote for information. If enough evidence appeals to you then you drop a vote.

That doesn't put you on anyones side. By that argument all those on Thyrs train were a side and that couldn't be further from the truth.
The vote links up interest but its not a "side".

I consider your notion of neutality an illusion but I guess that doesn't make you scummy so agree to disagree

[Fanderay]

So, I'm not really a fan of Rikkter's case. As other people have pointed out, it seems like he saw votes on him and decided to just build a case. It's odd that he'd vote for Tennes halfway through his case, before he'd even really started on D2. I guess it was maybe an attempt to draw out Tennes? It just doesn't read well to me.
I also dislike how much pointless shit he quotes. Stuff like Tennes saying "fucking hell" or Sheltatha's sumo=symp correction. It feels like a way to bloat the post and make it seem more substantial than it really is.

Rikkter, on 17 May 2020 - 06:22 PM, said:

Continued...

It is around this time that SL suddenly grows an incredible hard on for Tennes (and for some reason does not vote for him). This attack on Tennes is notable throughout the remainder of day 1.

Sheltatha Lore, on 12 May 2020 - 11:30 PM, said:

Tennes, on 12 May 2020 - 10:40 PM, said:

I'm not saying they're symping one of you. I'm saying they're signalling to the three of you, ergo symping all three*. And Skin's vote is on Thyr, so how is that lynching their killer?* I know, I know. Usually not a fan of signalling cases myself. This one kinda struck me though. I remember yesterday noticing the 'EXTREMELY trustworthy' bit. Today the '3/4' thing stood out to me but there's a lot of alts so I didn't actually clock that this was from the same person until I re-read the thread this evening. When I realized that I was like HUH maybe there's something there.

*makes a signalling case**admits to not liking signalling cases.*My thinking is this one way too brazenly silly to be scum.

Sheltatha Lore, on 12 May 2020 - 11:46 PM, said:

Aranatha, on 12 May 2020 - 11:30 PM, said:

Honestly Tennes, if you're not scum, then my vibe scanner is so off, I might aswell go and live in a shoe box and never play mafia again. Although I'm not tiny enough for a shoe box. Hmm. As soon as anyone start making up ridiculous claims after barely one day, over analyzing word choices claiming symp, I get major scum vibes. Actually my radar is going off like crazy right now. Beep Beep BEEP.First you vote Skintick for absolutely no reason, then take the vote away for even less. Trying to seem like town so much, you might aswell have a giant 'scum' sign above your head. Just saying. I guess you could be poking for the sake of poking, and as such randomness can work sometimes, but I'm not really convinced that's your motive. I can SMELL you. Huh. ALSO can we PLEASE have some normal vote counting - the current vote counting is confusing as fuck. Also I don't want to have to keep counting how many votes are necessary - would Path-fucker please give an update with that. Pfff. Back to Tennes the scum scummery scum. Did you really hover over Skintick like a giant hovercrafting hovercraft sent to hover, and didn't think nobody would notice? Care to explain yourself hover-over-er?

hmmm...this is interesting.I don't think what Tennes has said/done really warrants this level of backlash. I can understand a mild amount of scrutiny (as I have myself indicated)... But you seem to really be going at him quite hard.So the question for me os...Are you a symp jumping to someone he has scrutinised's rescue by deflecting onto him?...or simply the village idiot jumping the gun with his "vibe scanner"?Either way...food for thought.

To be continued on last time...

Strangely, Rikkter says that Shel was attacking Tennes, but the two posts they quoted seem to disprove their point. The second post is quite literally Shel defending Tennes, and the first post explains one of the things Rikkter was confused about (Shel not voting for Tennes).

Rikkter, on 17 May 2020 - 06:23 PM, said:

Tennes shows a strong interest in the Merrid case (our healer), pestering Okral to cough up more details on this in particular. Much more notable after Merrid's CF.

Tennes, on 13 May 2020 - 04:54 PM, said:

Okral Lom, on 13 May 2020 - 03:20 PM, said:

Seems to be a done deal, but at least I can rest in peace, knowing that I was 100% right to be nervous about posting much early (I like being right!). So far, everyone who has been under serious suspicion has primarily just been guilty of being active. Sometimes, a duck is just a duck. I did say I would vote though. So, for being soooo perfectly mild mannered and unobtrusive...Vote Merrid

You're not helping your case. Stop talking about how nervous you are and do something useful instead. You said you were nervous about posting tangible stuff too early. If you're Town, it is never too early for information. Yes, sticking your neck out might come back to haunt you. Tough luck. Everyone wants to survive but at the end of the day you don't win if you live to the end of the game, you win if your team wins.It looks like you're getting lynched today and for a good reason but if you're actually town, you still have 3 hours or so to post something useful. Build a case. Share your notes. Give the team something to work with on the following day if you actually flip town.You think Merrid is scum? Cool! Now tell us why, so we can follow that thread in the future, instead of posting this asinine shit about how right you were.

This point doesn't make much sense to me. The main thrust of their post isn't about getting Okral to give information on Merrid, it's trying to get Okral to post something remotely useful.

Rikkter, on 17 May 2020 - 07:40 PM, said:

Tennes, on 17 May 2020 - 07:31 PM, said:

I don't have time to post much until tomorrow but this is some galaxy brain logic to think I was deflecting from Thyr all the time to then cast a vote that tipped the scale on them.

I voted Thyr on D2 when the votes were 4/4/2 between Ven, Thyr, and Hanas. If I were scum, I would need to be out of my mind to switch to Thyr at that point.

No, actually you wouldn't be out of your mind at all. There are probably at least 3 people who will show up as scum on a CF this game. Taking opportunities to distance is a hallmark of scum play. What better way to distance than to join early on to a lynch train on the first scum. You read the room correctly, that Thyr was careening toward a lynch despite all your efforts to derail and redirect suspicion. This was all made worse by the inability to SL to get another separate train up to speed, although the Hanas train was promising (something you noted when you did vote for Thyr).

Your behavior is a reasonable, cold calculation, and unfortunately you overdid the defense/derailment attempts for Thyr, making it abundantly apparent on a careful reread. And so quotable. I doubt you will be able to untie yourself from all your own words protecting Thyr, but I will be amused to watch you try.

Seems super WIFOM to me. Sure, it would have been a good move for scum, but it also would have been a good move for a town player.

As Shel has pointed out, Thyr's comment on Rikkter is also odd. For now, I'll put a vote on Rikkter.

Vote Rikkter

[Path-Shaper]

It is day 3. About 17 hours and a half remaining. (Tuesday midday BST) Gives me a chance to post final hours.

17 people left alive. Aranatha, Gait, Gamelon, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Kilava, Okaros, Osseric, Prazec Goul, Rikkter, Ruse, Sheltatha Lore, Tennes, Venesara.

1 vote Sheltatha Lore; Aranatha
5 votes Rikkter; Jalan, Tennes, Barghast Sheltatha Lore, Fanderay
1 vote Ruse; Tennes
2 votes Tennes; Rikkter, Gait

Players not voted; Fanderay, Gamelon, Hanas, Kalse, Kilava, Okaros, Osseric, Prazec Goul, Ruse, Venesara.

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 18 May 2020 - 05:26 PM

[Kalse]

Wow, I knew I would be out for a bit but didn't expect to be that long. Apologies, catching up.

[Kalse]

Barghast, on 17 May 2020 - 08:06 PM, said:

What's your stance now Kalse?

I'm planning comment on Rikker's case as it is an important component of the day so far (next post), but I'm curious, why ask me in particular?

[Kalse]

my issue with Rikker's case, as I wrote before, is because of the vote after his "day 1" re-read.

At that point, the case is not that strong. There are more interesting things on his day 2 posts, but what he highlights is consistent with Tennes being killer more than indication that he is. It only looks that way because he already voted him, a bit of confirmation bias going on.

On the other hand, I don't know if the case itself is scummy to deserve a vote (it's not comparable to the Thyrlann attempt) , but it gets there with comments like:

Rikkter, on 17 May 2020 - 07:22 PM, said:

<snip>

Ah right, sorry I misunderstood you. Kalse has been pinging me a lot in my reread, but I am staying focused on Tennes until he is lynched.

I mean, it's good to believe in what you write, but come on...

That being said, there is still some time in the day, and something else caught my eye

[Sheltatha Lore]

Kalse, on 18 May 2020 - 06:21 PM, said:

Barghast, on 17 May 2020 - 08:06 PM, said:

What's your stance now Kalse?

I'm planning comment on Rikker's case as it is an important component of the day so far (next post), but I'm curious, why ask me in particular?

why do you think he did?

[Kalse]

Sheltatha Lore, on 17 May 2020 - 09:20 PM, said:

Kalse, on 17 May 2020 - 06:04 PM, said:

Joking aside, it's a quiet week-end, and we have time. There is something I'm not sure I get so I want to put it here for discussion.

When Thyrllan came to do his catch-up-posting, this was the vote situation:

Path-Shaper, on 14 May 2020 - 08:56 PM, said:

It is day 2. About 25 hours remaining.

19 people left alive. Aranatha, Barghast, Fanderay, Gait, Gamelon, Hanas, Jalan, Kalse, Kilava, Okaros, Osseric, Prazec Goul, Rikkter, Ruse, Sheltatha Lore, Skintick, Tennes, Thyr, Venesara.

1 vote Okaros; Sheltatha Lore
1 vote Prazec Goul; Tennes
3 votes Venesara; Kilava, Kalse, Okaros
2 votes Thyrllan; Skintick, Jalan


Players not voted; Aranatha, Barghast, Fanderay, Gait, Gamelon, Hanas, Osseric, Prazec Goul, Rikkter, Ruse, Thyr, Venesara.

and this is how he ended it:

Thyrllan, on 14 May 2020 - 10:11 PM, said:

OK, lots to digest. I've gotta get back to e-work but that's my catchup and contribution.

Tennes lost some of his scumminess when I finished the re-read. There were some questionable things I brought up, but I don't think Fanderay ever did his "re-read" so for now

Vote Fanderay

A lame-ass case and a vote for someone who had no vote until now. Now, we know he was not following his heart in voting on whom he thought was scum, so it was either:

1. He didn't realise how much the noose was tightening on him, even though he's been talked about since middle of day 1 and had already two votes on him on day 2
2. He know he may be f--ed and wanted to distance himself from Fanderay.

Both are quite, I don't know how to say, simplistic explanations? Still, with a lame case like this, why not just say something similar about Okaros, or add to Venesara saying he agrees?

What I am missing?

Unfortunately... this kind of thing doesn't really provide any tangible info. its always WIFOM.
on the one had he could have been distancing, but on the other he could have been trying to actually look involved and just picked an easy target, as he was only slightly being pressured to get involved at the time with two votes I like to think it's the later.
But again... its not really something I want to try and wrack my Brian over.

What DOES interest me however... knowing now that he is scum now is.. why did he not pile onto the already established Venesera train?

Thats Something more relevant consider IMHO. Would have been much easier to simply agree with a Venesera case tipping the scale in that direction.

meh

Hmm, not too happy i comes from Shelly

Why do you say "meh"? Thinking back that would be a simple explanation. Thyrllan was a killer, and there was another candidate there for the sharing of pressure/vote. The only one who remotely did that (in that optic) is Okaros, but where were the others? I didn't even notice subtle comments about the case having a bit of merit, which anyone in bad faith could have at least tried to do.


vote Venesera


for now.

[Kalse]

Sheltatha Lore, on 18 May 2020 - 06:31 PM, said:

Kalse, on 18 May 2020 - 06:21 PM, said:

Barghast, on 17 May 2020 - 08:06 PM, said:

What's your stance now Kalse?

I'm planning comment on Rikker's case as it is an important component of the day so far (next post), but I'm curious, why ask me in particular?

why do you think he did?

More importantly, WHAT is Gamorrah?

[Kalse]

Ok, joking aside I guess it's because of my "good stuff, but..." phrasing?

I knew I had little time before leaving and I forgot tone doesn't always translate well in writing.

"Good stufff but..." should be read as:

[Sheltatha Lore]

Kalse, on 18 May 2020 - 06:36 PM, said:

Hmm, not too happy i comes from Shelly

Why do you say "meh"? Thinking back that would be a simple explanation.

IF I remember correctly I the "meh" was directed at the WIFOM talk above the idea I put forward that you "like".

Since it all stemmed a WIFOM discussion.