[Traveller]

Totally. I want that question answered by him, as why would you take a character like that and then write them such a twisted belittling ending? I only ever read that once, I skipped it on further rereads. It was just nasty.

Cool inclusion of the Edur though. Inclusions like that are only there for the reread, there's no way you'd know what was going on there otherwise. Everyone slaughtered in the town, you think it's the Pannions army but no, it invaders from the sea, looking for a champion...

This post has been edited by Traveller: 14 March 2020 - 09:31 PM

[QuickTidal]

Joining the re-read. Hopefully won’t take me too long to catch up.

[Aptorian]

It's only 2500 pages. Should take you no time at all! Gods, I've been checking the length of House of Chains and Midnight Tides. They're as long or longer than Memories of Ice.

If I'd had come across the Malazan series now, I'm not sure I'd gotten into the series as easy. I'm weary of any book that's longer than 3-400 pages.

Anyway I'm into the siege of Capustan. Gruntle's segments are hardcore hero fantasy. Incredible amounts of bad ass condensed into small segments of joy and sadness.

[Macros]

The Mhybe isn't bothering me anywhere near as much this time.

Have I grown more compassionate in my old age?

My copy of MoI is actually falling apart

[Aptorian]

I wonder at the significance of the torcs that Picker carried from Treach. What is the purpose of them being transported to Gruntle?

They didn't seem to give her any magical benefits. Nor does it seem like Gruntle needed them. I wonder if there is a story thread that got edited out of the final draft?

[Traveller]

I don't know. It's kind of an anomaly, as Krul is manipulating events to ensure the rise of Treach as another player against the Pannion and CG, yet the torcs find their way to Gruntle via a servant of the CG?

There's a line somewhere in the musings of the Grey Swords I think, about Fener and Treach, questioning whether the rise of one means the replacement of the other, to which the answer is that there can be two war Ascendents if there is need for them. K'rul wants them both, as he's making a viable opposition to the CG. I guess the torcs don't do much for Picker, but are a clear symbol of who has chosen Gruntle when they find him.

I've just read the part where Gruntle basically changes from drunk guard to potential Ascendent - only a few lines but it's just awesome.


'He felt himself grow cold, as if the blood within him was now something else, flowing a bitter course along his veins, reaching out to fill his muscles with a strange, unyielding strength. He had never before felt such a thing, but he was beyond thinking about it. There were no words for this. Nor, he would soon discover, were there words to describe what he would become, what he would do.'

This post has been edited by Traveller: 15 March 2020 - 02:49 PM

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

I'm a little over 2/3 of the way through the book, and have been collecting some notes. Here we go:

1. Why are the Great Ravens with Rake? I've forgotten if this is explained.

=

2.

Quote

Picker contemplated giving the woman a good, hard cuff, but it was a thought she entertained at least ten times a day since they'd paired up for this posting, and once again she resisted it. "Three hundred councils to buy my arm falling off. Wonderful."

"Think positive, Corporal. It'll give you something to talk about with Dujek."

I love Picker & Blend.

=

3.

Quote

Quick Ben accessed his warrens — he could only manage seven at any one time though he possessed more.

QB's power levels feel so out of proportion to any of the other human mages we meet in the books.

=

4. This is an incredibly visceral image of illness. While Erikson's writing is consistently good, he sometimes has sections that are elevated a tier or two above, like this one:

Quote

The pain of illness had changed him — he could see that within himself, conjured as an image, a scene both peculiar and poignant. He flet as if his own soul had been reduced into something piteous — a bedraggled, sweat-smeared rat, trapped with in a rock-fall, twisting and squirming through cracks in a desperate search for a place where the pressure — the vast, shifting weight — relented. A space in which to breathe. And the pain all around me, those sharp stones, are settling, still settling, the spaces between them vanishing...darkness rising like water...

=

5. After QB meets with the "world's oldest witch of Tennes":

Quote

"Now shut that door — I prefer the cold!"

As the wizard strode down the alley, his thoughts wandered loose, darted and whipped on gusts — most of the currents false and without significance. One, however, snagged in his mind and stayed with him, at first meaningless, a curiosity and nothing more: she prefers the cold. Strange. Most old people like heat and plenty of it...

Now this is some real foreshadowing of the solution to slow Burn's infection! Why couldn't the damn witch come out and say it frankly!?

=

6. Paran in the Beast Hold:

Quote

Paran stepped back — and stood on the flagstones once again. With an effort he pulled his eyes from the carved Hold of Beasts — but why were there two thrones and not just one? — as he now knew the card was calld.

Are there two thrones because one is for Togg and the other for Fanderay?

=

7. When Rake and QB meet for the first time:

Quote

The Seven Cities mage shrugged. "I appreciate challenges, Lord. No guarantee that I'll have any success, mind you — no, do not quest towards me, Son of Darkness. I value my privacy"

"As you wish," Rake said, turning away.

Based on all that we know about Rake at this point, especially how Lady Envy describes him (and from his journey to Seguleh land), why would he demur and not seek to find out more about QB? Is it just a "with age comes wisdom" type of deal? It doesn't fit his personality as we know it at this point in the book.

=

8. When Tool and Toc are traveling with the gang in Morn:

Quote

"The plain is vast," Tool replied. "Also, there are the effects of the Tellann warren which surrounds me — though that is much weakened at the moment. Someone has drawn on my life-force, almost to exhaustion. Ask me no questions regarding this."

What? Who has drawn on his life-force?

=

9. Whiskeyjack divulging QB's background to Rake during their midnight chat:

Quote

"Quick Ben. Adaephon Delat, a middling wizard in the employ of one of the Seven Holy Protectors during an abortive rebellion that originated in Aren. Delat and eleven other mages made up the Protector's cadre. Our besieging army's own sorcerers were more than their match — Bellurdan, Nightchill, Tayschrenn, A'Karonys, Tesormalandis, Stumpy — a formidable gathering..."

Ah, good ol' Stumpy. I love the build-up of powerful names, only to end on "Stumpy"

=

10. Discussing the Chaining:

Quote

"At the Chaining, there were but forty of us, yet we destroyed the Crippled God's entire realm — granted, a nascent realm."

Wait, they destroyed the realm the CG came from? Or, is this a different realm that he was starting within the Malazan world? This isn't the Nascent, right?

=

11. There are so many instances throughout the first 3 books of people beseeching others to witness, philosophizing internally about witnessing, and so on. We tend to get stuck on Karsa's exhortations for people to witness or on Tavore's final speech that the Bonehunters will be unwitnessed by all except those fighting alongside them (little did they know an entire series would be written about them!), but this really is a running theme throughout the books — open your eyes and watch.

Toc's thoughts on the absence of people in the Domin:

Quote

Perhaps in all our lives. Unfamiliar faces, gauging regard, every sense heightened in an effort to read the unknown. The natural efforts of society. Do we all possess a wish to remain unseen, unnoticed? Is the witnessing of our actions by others our greatest restraint?

=

12.

Quote

"High Fist, if Kkruppe is this world's foremost genius, then Quick Ben's but a step behind him. A very short step."

Wish fulfillment of the highest order 😂

=

13. re: discussions in the DG thread about the BB's plan to "assassinate" Laseen. It was never about that — it was about acceptance.

Quote

"Whiskeyjack, we're the Malazans, remember? Nothing we do is ever supposed to reveal a hint of our long-term plans — mortal empires aren't supposed to think that far ahead. And we're damned good at following that principle, you and I. Hood take me, Laseen inverted the command structure for a reason, you know."

"So the right people would be there are ground level when Shadowthrone and Cotillion made their move, aye."

"Not just them, Whiskeyjack."

"This should be made known to Quick Ben — to all of the Bridgeburners, in fact."

"No. In any case, don't you think your wizard's figured things out yet?"

"If so, then why did he send Kalam after the Empress?"

"Because Kalam needs to be convinced in person, that's why. Face to face with the Empress. Quick Ben knew that."

=

14. The Winged Ones/Condors are weird.

=

15. What is the "Folly" part of Gothos' Folly? Is the folly that he's writing down all this important history, yet so few will read and heed it? Or, is it something else?

=

16. So. Much. Edur. Hi, dead Theradas.

=

17.

Quote

Poisoned souls, led by the one who has been slain a hundred times, oh, 'ware this new Emperor of the Edur, this Tyrant of Pain, this Deliverer of Midnight Tides!

Midnight Tides!





k, that's it for now.

[QuickTidal]

I had an audible credit, so I’ve decided to listen to MOI as I’ve never listened to a Malazan book. Ralph Lister ain’t a bad narrator. Pretty decent.

Only up to chapter 2 so far.

[D'rek]

Traveller, on 14 March 2020 - 09:31 PM, said:

Totally. I want that question answered by him, as why would you take a character like that and then write them such a twisted belittling ending? I only ever read that once, I skipped it on further rereads. It was just nasty.

He did write a lengthy bit about that particular scene... I think in the TOR readthrough?

Whisperzzzzzzz, on 15 March 2020 - 04:37 PM, said:

8. When Tool and Toc are traveling with the gang in Morn:

Quote

"The plain is vast," Tool replied. "Also, there are the effects of the Tellann warren which surrounds me — though that is much weakened at the moment. Someone has drawn on my life-force, almost to exhaustion. Ask me no questions regarding this."

What? Who has drawn on his life-force?

Tool was part of creating Silverfox. Probably her?

[Aptorian]

P. 669

Quote

For a moment, Lady Envy almost sighed, then the fact that she did not recognize the figure struck home. ‘Oh! And here I was about to say: dear Tool, you waited for us after all! But lo, you are not him, are you?’ The T’lan Imass before them was shorter, squatter than Tool. Three black-iron broadswords of unfamiliar style impaled this undead warrior’s broad, massive chest, two of them driven in from behind, the other from the T’lan Imass’s left. Broken ribs jutted through black, salt-rimed skin. The leather strapping of all three sword handles hung in rotted, unravelled strips from the grips’ wooden under-plates. Wispy remnants of old sorcery flowed fitfully along the pitted blades. The warrior’s features were extraordinarily heavy, the brow ridge a skinless shelf of bone, stained dark brown, the cheek bones swept out and high to frame flattened oval-shaped eye sockets. Cold-hammered copper fangs capped the undead’s upper canines. The T’lan Imass did not wear a helm. Long hair, bleached white, dangled to either side of the broad, chinless face, weighted at the ends with shark teeth. A most dreadful, appalling apparition, Lady Envy reflected. ‘Have you a name, T’lan Imass?’ she asked. ‘I have heard the summons,’ the warrior said in a voice that was distinctly feminine. ‘It came from a place to match the direction I had already chosen. North. Not far, now. I shall attend the Second Gathering, and I shall address my Kin of the Ritual, and so tell them that I am Lanas Tog. Sent to bring word of the fates of the Ifayle T’lan Imass and of my own Kerluhm T’lan Imass.’ ‘How fascinating,’ Lady Envy said. ‘And their fates are?’ ‘I am the last of the Kerluhm. The Ifayle, who heeded our first summons, are all but destroyed. Those few that remain cannot extricate themselves from the conflict. I myself did not expect to survive the attempt. Yet I have.’ ‘A horrific conflict indeed,’ Lady Envy quietly observed. ‘Where does it occur?’ ‘The continent of Assail. Our losses: twenty-nine thousand eight hundred and fourteen Kerluhm. Twenty-two thousand two hundred Ifayle. Eight months of battle. We have lost this war.’ Lady Envy was silent for a long moment, then she said, ‘It seems you’ve finally found a Jaghut Tyrant who is more than your match, Lanas Tog.’ The T’lan Imass cocked her head. ‘Not Jaghut. Human.’

So much potential in this meeting. So much speculation about the continent. I liked the Assail book but compared to what my imagination conjured, it was an incredible let down.

[Macros]

Finished last night, was gonna set it down but just had to carry on to the end.

I'd say my feelings on this book have changed massively since my last reading of it (no idea when that was) the Myhbe didn't bother me at all this time, maybe I appreciated more what it was building to.

still a massive fuck you to Kallor. And the sacrifice of the host just seems all so fucking pointless when you see the devastation the Tiste Andii can dish out. The plan of slipping the host in to pull teeth was solid, its execution was piss poor to say the least, its always bugged me and still bugs me. Slip them in yes but have the main army tight up their ass to capitalise on the confusion and have moon spawn pop up like a jack in the box at the same time.

DG still my favourite from the main series, I'd say MoI is probably 3rd or 4th, for all its awesome (Capustan, QB really showing up, etc) it always suffers (for me) on Marvel levels of power fluctuations and disparities.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

Quote

Had their conversation continued for another half-dozen heartbeats, Korlat — with her preternatural vision — would have seen the first flight of Black Moranth rise from the mountain's forested slope, forty in all, and, flying low, wing hard and fast for the city.

A half-dozen heartbeats, within which Oponn's coin spun...

A single, lazy turn...

From Lady to Lord.

And my heart drops into my stomach, like a lead sounding into a lake.

[Aptorian]

Yeah, I've been slowing down my read because I'm dreading what is coming. Every new segment with Whiskeyjack makes me worried this is the passage where Kallor shows up.

I'm on p 739 just read this foreshadowing of where Moon's Spawn is hiding.

Quote

Ahead, on the horizon’s very edge, the Godswalk Mountains were visible, young and jagged, forming a barrier to the south that stretched sixty leagues. Its easternmost edge was swallowed by forests that continued unbroken all the way to Ortnal’s Cut and Coral Bay, resuming on the other side of the water to surround the city of Coral itself. The River Eryn became Ortnal’s Cut twenty or more leagues from Coral Bay, the river’s red water plunging into a deep chasm and reputedly turning oddly black and impenetrable. Coral Bay seemed to be but a continuation of that chasm.

[D'rek]

Aptorian, on 17 March 2020 - 09:20 PM, said:

P. 669

Quote

For a moment, Lady Envy almost sighed, then the fact that she did not recognize the figure struck home. ‘Oh! And here I was about to say: dear Tool, you waited for us after all! But lo, you are not him, are you?’ The T’lan Imass before them was shorter, squatter than Tool. Three black-iron broadswords of unfamiliar style impaled this undead warrior’s broad, massive chest, two of them driven in from behind, the other from the T’lan Imass’s left. Broken ribs jutted through black, salt-rimed skin. The leather strapping of all three sword handles hung in rotted, unravelled strips from the grips’ wooden under-plates. Wispy remnants of old sorcery flowed fitfully along the pitted blades. The warrior’s features were extraordinarily heavy, the brow ridge a skinless shelf of bone, stained dark brown, the cheek bones swept out and high to frame flattened oval-shaped eye sockets. Cold-hammered copper fangs capped the undead’s upper canines. The T’lan Imass did not wear a helm. Long hair, bleached white, dangled to either side of the broad, chinless face, weighted at the ends with shark teeth. A most dreadful, appalling apparition, Lady Envy reflected. ‘Have you a name, T’lan Imass?’ she asked. ‘I have heard the summons,’ the warrior said in a voice that was distinctly feminine. ‘It came from a place to match the direction I had already chosen. North. Not far, now. I shall attend the Second Gathering, and I shall address my Kin of the Ritual, and so tell them that I am Lanas Tog. Sent to bring word of the fates of the Ifayle T’lan Imass and of my own Kerluhm T’lan Imass.’ ‘How fascinating,’ Lady Envy said. ‘And their fates are?’ ‘I am the last of the Kerluhm. The Ifayle, who heeded our first summons, are all but destroyed. Those few that remain cannot extricate themselves from the conflict. I myself did not expect to survive the attempt. Yet I have.’ ‘A horrific conflict indeed,’ Lady Envy quietly observed. ‘Where does it occur?’ ‘The continent of Assail. Our losses: twenty-nine thousand eight hundred and fourteen Kerluhm. Twenty-two thousand two hundred Ifayle. Eight months of battle. We have lost this war.’ Lady Envy was silent for a long moment, then she said, ‘It seems you’ve finally found a Jaghut Tyrant who is more than your match, Lanas Tog.’ The T’lan Imass cocked her head. ‘Not Jaghut. Human.’

So much potential in this meeting. So much speculation about the continent. I liked the Assail book but compared to what my imagination conjured, it was an incredible let down.

Yeah... really dropped the ball on that one

[Aptorian]

I'm past page 769 where Brood and co. learn about the Malazan's "tactical deceit" after all these years it's still an idiotic plan. Kallor is an asshole but he's the only one who's rational in that gathering. The Malazans expect their own allies to rush to their aid at the peril of the whole campaign? Idiocy.

[D'rek]

Aptorian, on 21 March 2020 - 09:20 AM, said:

I'm past page 769 where Brood and co. learn about the Malazan's "tactical deceit" after all these years it's still an idiotic plan. Kallor is an asshole but he's the only one who's rational in that gathering. The Malazans expect their own allies to rush to their aid at the peril of the whole campaign? Idiocy.

Something something ta'veren convergence

Why didn't they just have Moon's Spawn crush the Seer's capital in the first place?

Heck, how big is Moon's Spawn anyways? Do you think they could have just loaded the entire army onto it and flown over, then Moranth-and-magic para-dropped into the city from above?

[Aptorian]

Only cool Andiis allowed in the Dark Fort.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

Every time — Dujek discussing Whiskeyjack's last moments with Korlat and Tayschrenn make me tear up. Then Mallet's approach and realization opens the ducts wide, letting the water flow.

[Aptorian]

Itkovian rides with Gruntle and Stonny to the Malazans aid.

Two observations.

1. That better not be his warhorse, the one that survived the battle in Capustan, he rode to death. That awesome beast did not deserve to die that way.

2. Just like The Malazans foolhardy Gambit, Itkovians need to embrace the T'lan Imass is a horrific moment. God damnit man they're all that's standing between an army made out of soft flesh and giant undead killing machines! Timing, Itkovian!

[Aptorian]

Finished the tale. Had a couple of good cries towards the end mixed with heartfelt laughter. Even knowing every event that was to take place it still rocked me with every loss. The culmination is an incredible achievement of dozens of stories coming together in the most satisfying way.