Malazan Empire: COVID-19 (aka Coronavirus, aka 2019-nCoV) - Malazan Empire

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COVID-19 (aka Coronavirus, aka 2019-nCoV)

#2041 User is offline   glasseye 

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Posted 29 October 2020 - 10:26 PM

View PostMezla PigDog, on 29 October 2020 - 10:17 PM, said:

I had to wear my reading glasses to the supermarket today for the first time. I've been getting headaches and I'm just getting old damnit. First time wearing a face mask and glasses. Glasses came off about 5 steps into the shop. What the hell are you supposed to do to stop the damn things steaming up? Do people with glasses just not go into indoor public places anymore or what?!


I have used surgical tape to tape the top of the mask to my nose - effective but a pain to take off.


I have purchased a mask that was recommended for those with glasses with a stronger wire to better shape to the nose and face - not as good as the tape but just about okay.

I now tend to wear an older pair of glasses that has a tighter fit to the nose. I can wear these further down my nose without them falling off and so further away from the mask line on the nose. This works well.


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#2042 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 29 October 2020 - 11:24 PM

Yeah, having the wire that better conforms to the nose is what makes it work without the fog. In the meantime between getting the new mask with the wire, you can tighten the mask loops bc there's more air coming up than there should be.

There's anti fog stuff for glasses and/or letting slightly soapy water dry on the glasses, but that only works for the glasses that do not have the special coatings to be anti UV etc. Reading glasses likely will be fine with this stuff.
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#2043 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 30 October 2020 - 09:33 AM

Yesterday, the new mask initiative went into effect in Denmark, meaning now you have to wear a mask pretty much anywhere in public. Before it was only in public transit and more recently in cafes and restaurants. We're even wearing them in the office unless we're sitting down for a while.

The amount of bitching and moaning some people will go through to avoid wearing these masks is incredible. I know Denmark is behind the times, people in the US, Britain, where ever, have been talking about this for months but I'm still surprised. The most fun are those conservative politicians who are always talking about the old days, when Danes were tough and totally didn't roll over during WW2. The people who are always calling people thin skinned or what ever. And then when they have to wear a piece of cloth over their face, suddenly they're being oppressed and subjected to inhuman treatment.

Still, most people I see at the Library are taking it in stride. You have to point at your face occasionally to remind people to pull up the mask but 99% of people are onboard. Or at least fear the carniverous librarians.
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#2044 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 30 October 2020 - 01:54 PM

Do people in Denmark also not remember the Spanish Influenza pandemic of the early 1900s?

We sure don't remember that here in the US despite historians telling us exactly what they did and how similar it is to what's happening now.
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#2045 User is offline   Mezla PigDog 

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Posted 30 October 2020 - 10:40 PM

I've been wondering what's going to happen if we don't get a vaccine. Or even if we do get one I guess as we will probably have to have regular boosters and as individuals get weaker and/or older they will be less effective. There is unlikely to be a "cure" with current technology.

Children around now will probably react to covid-19 like the common cold for the rest of their lives so it's a question of roughly what age is the oldest cohort to be "safe". Then how to long term "protect" everyone above that. In species terms it's the tiniest blip and we're potentially trashing future generations chances by causing large degrees of economic harm and taking our eyes off other problems to focus on this.

I don't advocate leaving people to die but the hindsight stuff from this is going to be fascinating. It will be interesting to see if the economic sacrifices are worth it - as in the burden left behind for younger people caused by trying to protect a generation who will be dead either way eventually.
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#2046 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 30 October 2020 - 10:56 PM

View PostMezla PigDog, on 30 October 2020 - 10:40 PM, said:

I've been wondering what's going to happen if we don't get a vaccine. Or even if we do get one I guess as we will probably have to have regular boosters and as individuals get weaker and/or older they will be less effective. There is unlikely to be a "cure" with current technology.

Children around now will probably react to covid-19 like the common cold for the rest of their lives so it's a question of roughly what age is the oldest cohort to be "safe". Then how to long term "protect" everyone above that. In species terms it's the tiniest blip and we're potentially trashing future generations chances by causing large degrees of economic harm and taking our eyes off other problems to focus on this.

I don't advocate leaving people to die but the hindsight stuff from this is going to be fascinating. It will be interesting to see if the economic sacrifices are worth it - as in the burden left behind for younger people caused by trying to protect a generation who will be dead either way eventually.



You mean scientific resources are being devoted to COVID-19 rather than climate change?...

In terms of emissions, the pandemic has had a small but positive effect overall so far.

https://www.bbc.com/...onment-54074733

If Trump loses (and leaves office) as a consequence, it could have a major positive impact on climate change.

As I've mentioned before, it has also helped to accelerate automation and the transition to online interactions and transactions, which are potentially major positives for economic efficiency (and human freedom).

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 30 October 2020 - 10:57 PM

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#2047 User is offline   Mezla PigDog 

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Posted 30 October 2020 - 11:06 PM

That and all the academics I know working on cancer have had their grants converted to covid work. Plus the levels of poverty the economic downturn will create will have huge impacts on health, crime, drugs, everything.
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#2048 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 30 October 2020 - 11:16 PM

Oh, and apparently COVID is a big money-spinner for the health industry. Who says so? Why, the lying orange Fucktard-In-Chief of course, judging everyone else by his own standards.
He'd use this as an opportunity to make more money (and I don't doubt he has, with all the pies he has his filthy fingers in), so why wouldn't everyone else?

I hate that ****. Kick the piece of shit out of office and throw him in jail. Electing him the first time, well, he was (mostly) an unknown quality so you get a sliver of a second chance. Elect him a second time after the last 4 years and it will absolutely confirm to the entirety of the world that the USA is the most stupid, selfish bunch of fucktards in the free world and noone will want to have anything to do with you after that if they can help it. Seriously, this will taint even the good people of the USA for decades. Hold your noses if you have to and vote Biden, if only to deny Trump and the Republic**ts.

https://www.news.com...790e3c9588cfa98

Even if you think it's a choice between two evils, settle for the diet coke of evil rather than the full dose.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 30 October 2020 - 11:28 PM

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#2049 User is offline   Gwynn ap Nudd 

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Posted 31 October 2020 - 03:33 AM

View PostMezla PigDog, on 30 October 2020 - 10:40 PM, said:

I've been wondering what's going to happen if we don't get a vaccine. Or even if we do get one I guess as we will probably have to have regular boosters and as individuals get weaker and/or older they will be less effective. There is unlikely to be a "cure" with current technology.

Children around now will probably react to covid-19 like the common cold for the rest of their lives so it's a question of roughly what age is the oldest cohort to be "safe". Then how to long term "protect" everyone above that. In species terms it's the tiniest blip and we're potentially trashing future generations chances by causing large degrees of economic harm and taking our eyes off other problems to focus on this.

I don't advocate leaving people to die but the hindsight stuff from this is going to be fascinating. It will be interesting to see if the economic sacrifices are worth it - as in the burden left behind for younger people caused by trying to protect a generation who will be dead either way eventually.


A big part of the issue is that many of the economic and health consequences are occurring because of failures of government and failures of the population at large. Places that had past poor experiences with SARS and MERS, and where things like mask wearing and frequent hand sanitation are the norm, have seen much less impact than most of Europe and North America. Taiwan and Singapore for example. Japan is in a similar situation, absent the previous past experiences as it wasn't hit very hard by SARS or MERS iirc. Robust contact tracing programs which the populace willingly participate in are also a big part of the difference. If governments were sensible with restrictions/recommendations, put in the effort to establish proper protocols and contact tracing, and the population followed the guidelines, the economic impact would be much less in most sectors (tourism is toast either way).

With the Spanish flu it was seen, at least in the US, that those places that had the most restrictions and knocked the infection rates down the most were also the ones with the highest rates of economic growth in the following years. The idea of letting things run rampant that some espouse to keep the economy open is nonsense. The economy won't function until people are willing to partake in it, which means reducing transmissions and risk to a level the majority are willing to tolerate. Parts of North America essentially sacrificed in person schooling for part of the year by allowing bars and nightclubs to reopen, knowing people aren't going to follow any health guidelines there, which was borderline insane IMO. The anti-mask stuff is off the charts insane.

The longer term economic consequences are difficult to foresee and I expect to be different from most recessions. E.g., some of the industries hit hardest by Covid restrictions are not ones most people plan on making a career in, so the low wage effect for people starting a career might not be as evident. Some of the zombie retail companies have finally gone under (JC Penny, Neiman Marcus), but government aid has helped prop up the zombies in other industries. The recent oil field consolidations absorbed a few in that segment, but another wave of bankruptcy filings/industry consolidation over the next year wouldn't surprise me.

For hospitality, one of the things I have wondered all along is whether habits would change. For example, locally a lot of the restaurant business relies on people going out for lunch at work, or dinner after work. That stopped for a significant length of time. It only takes a couple weeks of doing something for it to become a habit. Have the people who used to go out for lunch all the time gotten used to packing a lunch? Especially if they go over their bills and realize how much money they were saving? Brick and mortar retail is in the same boat, as many people who did not shop online regularly have started doing so.

Mid to long term environmental consequences, that Azath sort of brought, up are hard to predict too. I think much of the change right now can be attributed to the economic slowdown in general. More people are working from home (probably good) and more interactions are occurring online instead of people travelling (definitely good). I've had ten times more meetings in Teams than in person this year. I don't expect that to continue for all meetings. But, now that people have gotten used to meetings online, I doubt I will have any more days where it is fly in somewhere, have a meeting and fly out. Local in person meetings will come back. At the same time, transit ridership is way down. Basically, many people who previously took transit to work but could afford to drive, and are still working from the office, are now driving to avoid being around others. Does that become habit, or does it revert once Covid is under control? Unlike packing a lunch, driving to work costs more, so maybe it reverts. I have no idea.

I know that wasn't all addressed at your post (probably only the first paragraph), but I've had lots and lots of thoughts about Covid and what long term changes it might cause, so decided to post some of it.
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#2050 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 31 October 2020 - 07:15 AM

More automation doesn't equally human freedom, it equals bigger profits for the fat cats alas in this world.

Humanity won't head for utopia, it will be dystopia so long as the 0.01% are allowed to keep the 99.9%

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#2051 User is offline   Grief 

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Posted 31 October 2020 - 11:38 AM

Back into lockdown over here (Belgium), having been obviously needed for weeks to contain the numbers. It's amazing to me how many people still aren't taking it seriously, including many of my coworkers...

Would like to visit home for Christmas but not sure it's really on the cards. I'm curious what other people are doing? Especially anyone far from the family.

Cougar said:

Grief, FFS will you do something with your sig, it's bloody awful


worry said:

Grief is right (until we abolish capitalism).
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#2052 User is offline   Puck 

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Posted 31 October 2020 - 03:46 PM

We're going into a lockdown light on Monday (meaning everything's closed except shops, including non-necessary ones, and schools/kindergardens) until the end of November for now. We shall see.

On the up side, I am not losing my new job again due to this, and may even get to work from home for a few days, which is nice.
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#2053 User is online   Tiste Simeon 

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Posted 31 October 2020 - 04:36 PM

Sounds like UK is going into national lockdown too. Flipping heck this is mess.
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#2054 User is offline   Maark Abbott 

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Posted 02 November 2020 - 08:51 AM

View PostTiste Simeon, on 31 October 2020 - 04:36 PM, said:

Sounds like UK is going into national lockdown too. Flipping heck this is mess.



Yep. I know a fair few people who are now likely to be getting made redundant as the businesses can't carry on with a second lockdown as they are, or are going to have to be furloughed.

Locally to me we've already had people saying of Halloween 'I'm not following these guidelines because my children deserve to have fun'. You just kind of wonder where it will end and where we're headed in the near future.
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#2055 User is offline   TheRetiredBridgeburner 

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Posted 02 November 2020 - 09:39 AM

Whilst there are definitely people flouting the rules (#wewillnotcomply was trending on Twitter yesterday), blaming the situation solely on rulebreakers lets the government off the hook. They were told a lockdown was needed weeks ago, they were told not to send students back to university and advised to time the lockdown with half term so they could shut schools for the shortest additional period as part of it.

They did none of it and instead stand up with a bunch of graphs which mean nothing, talking about things that the graphs don't support.

Yes, people are selfish and stupid - but we're partially in the mess we're in because we are led by morons.
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#2056 User is offline   Gorefest 

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Posted 02 November 2020 - 01:03 PM

Absolutely true, although there is also a big "damned if you do, damned if you don't" vibe to all of this. It is all about how you align your priorities. The main issue I have with the government is that they say one thing and do another. If they had 'listened to the science' as they keep claiming, they should have locked down weeks ago. But science alone cannot guide in this either, as it is such a complex mix of economy, physical and mental health.
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#2057 User is offline   Gorefest 

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Posted 02 November 2020 - 01:06 PM

By far the overriding failure of the UK government is not having a solid track & trace system in place by now. And there is absolutely no point in having nighingale hospitals and lots of testing capacity, if you do not have the people to staff and run it. Big empty buildings and unused lab equipment cannot fight a pandemic.
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#2058 User is offline   TheRetiredBridgeburner 

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Posted 02 November 2020 - 02:14 PM

.... and it's trending on Twitter that if you quote an article of the Magna Carta you can't legally be fined for refusing to close your business or comply with the rules.

Burn everything. We've reached critical mass stupid.

Ranting aside, I agree Gorefest with there being the "damned if they do, damned if they don't" element - but it just really makes me angry when they keep claiming to be following the science whilst blithely doing nothing the science says, and going on about "robust response" whenever anything is questioned.
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#2059 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 02 November 2020 - 03:18 PM

It would be nice if we in the West had been able to actually LOCK DOWN. Our problem is that we never have, our testing level is too low, and our contact tracing is a joke. Our leaders are too malleable, too afraid of temporarily getting in the way of people with what are (let's be honest) inconveniences. Not understanding that a more intense lockdown at the beginning, and not phasing out of it until we'd properly stamped it out (being under 100 cases a day was apparently good enough in Ontario...fecking hell) was going to save us the grief we were currently in...or at least mitigate it.

I don't know what else to do anymore. I've been following strict lockdown mandates since March. I've seen my mother, for example, once since then...at a distance, with a mask on. Our cases are still rising, and people in my family think I'm nuts.

My sister is an "the economy is more important" / "I'm not afraid of this virus like you are" person and I told her that she should not have flouted the rules at the beginning if she truly felt that way. As it stands, I told her over the weekend that the reason we are not doing anything with them for Xmas this year is because she and her family have not been social bubbling, masking, distancing, and have been hanging out with their friends for months during a pandemic. She railed at me that she doesn't get to see her niece and nephew over Xmas and how selfish I was being and how dare I ect.

...the hypocrisy is not lost on me, believe me. I may have created an un-healable rift in my own family by sticking to my guns on this but I'm done soft-shoeing around the idiocy that is my sister...who admitted that if she had more gust she'd be protesting with the QAnon and Trump people...my gods...
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#2060 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 02 November 2020 - 03:28 PM

You may have damaged the relationship with your extended family, but you've protected yourself and your immediate family, plus some benefit to the community at large.

I believe that you've acted with compassion and I also remember your work earlier this year with the hospitalization, the house sitting, the commutes, and the long hours.

That's how I'm looking at the relationship with my parents and extended family. They're all left leaning if not very left, but they're also taking enormous risks and not communicating them to others.

I am really proud of my younger brother for independently acting in a similar manner.
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