[QuickTidal]

Thanks man. Yeah, it's just hard when it comes to family because you want the best for them, even if they don't really see it as serious as we do.

[stone monkey]

So another 4 week lockdown starts in the UK tonight... and my life changes... in no way whatsoever *Laughs Bitterly In Shielding At Home For The Last 7 Months*

It's not been all bad. I haven't had to deal with my colleagues in person in that time - although they can still be suitably annoying remotely. And I now have a 10 second commute to work each day.

This post has been edited by stone monkey: 04 November 2020 - 10:44 PM

[Malankazooie]

I guess in Denmark if you fancy yourself a fancy man, with all the fancy trappings, there's a fancy price to pay.

Mink variant of coronavirus spreads to humans in Denmark; full cull planned

[Macros]

I'm not surprised any more that Northern Ireland's numbers are bad.

Stopped at the shop on the way to work this morning for a coffee.
Of say ... Ten customers I was literally the only one wearing a mask.

Compare that with the republic, you will not get served without one.

Fuck people

[Maark Abbott]

Macros, on 05 November 2020 - 07:13 AM, said:

I'm not surprised any more that Northern Ireland's numbers are bad.

Stopped at the shop on the way to work this morning for a coffee.
Of say ... Ten customers I was literally the only one wearing a mask.

Compare that with the republic, you will not get served without one.

Fuck people

I think this is pretty much Britain all over to be fair.

Food shopping tonight will be interesting.

[Mezla PigDog]

I went out to the pub last night. First proper night out at the pub since March. It was pretty irresponsible to go I think but I really needed to be out and my friend was very persuasive when she suggested it. It was a really cold night but the pub had a nice setup outside with a canopy and heaters and covid rates in our area are pretty low. What surprised me was how busy the pub was inside. They met all the rules for distancing with fewer tables etc but because it was cold they had the windows and doors shut. It will be a long time before you catch me voluntarily in a busy room without ventilation. It felt amazing to see people willing to do it.

Also another friend joined us for a short while. She works for a management consultancy and is now on the governments payroll for Test and Trace. She said it is an absolute shit show!

[amphibian]

You're doing the right thing about avoiding busy rooms with no ventilation.

Avoid the "greenhouse" setups where you're in a plastic bubble. Just be outside.

Zeynep Tufekci has been yelling about how dissipation of aerosols and our spit in the outside air is generally what we want if we're not using HEPA filters.

[Gorefest]

Mezla PigDog, on 05 November 2020 - 01:59 PM, said:

I went out to the pub last night. First proper night out at the pub since March. It was pretty irresponsible to go I think but I really needed to be out and my friend was very persuasive when she suggested it. It was a really cold night but the pub had a nice setup outside with a canopy and heaters and covid rates in our area are pretty low. What surprised me was how busy the pub was inside. They met all the rules for distancing with fewer tables etc but because it was cold they had the windows and doors shut. It will be a long time before you catch me voluntarily in a busy room without ventilation. It felt amazing to see people willing to do it.

Also another friend joined us for a short while. She works for a management consultancy and is now on the governments payroll for Test and Trace. She said it is an absolute shit show!

Of course it is. It is because this government keeps hiring external management consultancy agencies (no disrespect to your friend) instead of letting it be run nationally by the NHS. Because how could the NHS possibly organise things better than a bunch of private agencies with Tory board members? Obv.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 05 November 2020 - 08:25 PM

[Malankazooie]

With all the details of spread and aerosolized droplets and all that, do you guys ever think about that when you smell someone's fart? I know it's yucky, but I think this pandemic gave me a strong case of TMI in some respects. I think I will forever be borderline traumatized when that rando crop dusts the elevator (I think you guys call them a 'lift') before he steps out. I guess a fart can't kill you though, so, you know, cloud/silver lining and all that.

[Maark Abbott]

I thought the pubs had been shut down entirely barring takeaway of alcohol for the duration of this lockdown?

[Mezla PigDog]

Maark Abbott, on 06 November 2020 - 08:57 AM, said:

I thought the pubs had been shut down entirely barring takeaway of alcohol for the duration of this lockdown?

Wednesday evening last chance blowout.

Just about recovered from my hangover and haven't got covid symptoms yet. Win win.

[Mezla PigDog]

Looking forward to Biden's covid taskforce coming up with a plan. I guess they can start putting out opinion pre-Jan 20th and shame Trump in comparison even if they can't take action. States could follow recommendations that don't need Federal support as well I suppose. Still, I have no idea what they really can do since this genie is out of the bottle big time in the US. Certainly a good time to have someone familiar with the mechanics of leadership coming in.

[Macros]

Liz, all this spoofing in the papers from the Tories about a vaccine incoming soon, total soon hogwash or what have your heard?

[Mezla PigDog]

I wouldn't put any stock in it until someone without skin in the game says it's ready. And even then just because it's a functioning vaccine doesn't mean it's the best one or even a good one. I'm planning my life on the basis that there will not be a decent vaccine in time to be useful this winter and I remain to be convinced that there will ever be one.

[Aptorian]

In Denmark we've heard that there could be a vaccine available by the end of the year but even if there is it won't be widely available before spring earliest.

And then of course you have to worry about mutations. Denmark is culling it's entire Mink population from the fur industry this week because of fear the million little rodents were cooking up a new version of the virus.

[Mezla PigDog]

Even if a decent one is approved you have manufacturing ramp up first. Distribution to health care workers second - and it should be healthcare workers globally, not just in the lucky country to have a functional vaccine. Then it should go to vulnerable people globally. Then you can probably let low risk people go about their lives and be damned to the consequences as you slowly vaccinate all of them too. But it all depends on the efficacy of the vaccine and how long it maintains immunity as to what population coverage you need at any one time.

[Cyphon]

Get your flu jab and rona jab every winter.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

'How a Coronavirus Mutation in Minks Could Wreak Havoc on Vaccine Development

[...] mutated in captive minks, producing a strain of the coronavirus that is not readily stopped by antibodies to the dominant strain of the virus. More troublingly, this new strain is still transmissible from minks to humans, raising dire concerns about the efficacy of vaccines currently in development worldwide.

[...] Experts warn that if the outbreak of this mutant strain is not sufficiently contained, the world could be facing a second pandemic.

[...] What makes this mutation so much more troubling than previous mutations is not that the mutation increases how quickly the virus will spread, nor that it increases the severity of resultant disease. It's the fact that the immune system cannot transfer knowledge about one form of the virus in fighting the other form. From the perspective of your immune system, they are two different viruses altogether.

In other words, if you have survived COVID-19, your immune system remains largely unequipped to battle the mink strain. Once pharmaceutical companies finish their monthslong race to devise an effective COVID vaccine, the vaccine would likely provide little protection against the emerging strain. The virus has mutated into what could eventually be thought of as COVID 2.0 if the Danes fail to contain its spread.'

https://slate.com/te...ks-denmark.html

'Denmark mink Covid crisis worsens

If the coronavirus is mutating, will it affect vaccines?

Coronavirus mutations are not expected to alter vaccine efficacy, a World Health Organization scientist said in June.

Speaking at a briefing on Friday, another WHO expert, Maria Van Kekhove, cautioned that "mutations are normal."'

https://www.cnn.com/...intl/index.html

If the Slate article is accurate, CNN and the WHO seem to be spreading extremely misleading claims about the effect of this mutation on (at least most of) the vaccines being developed.

[Edit:

'Researchers at the SSI found that antibodies from people who recovered from coronavirus were less effective at neutralising the mutant strain, but have not made details of their experiments public. [...]

While the Danish scientists believe the mutations are concerning because of their potential to make vaccines less effective, one expert told the Guardian the fears were overblown [...]

Amid the uncertainty, scientists advising the UK government took part in talks over the weekend to acquire samples of the mutant virus from the Danish authorities. The virus will go through a series of tests to investigate whether or not it evades antibodies from recovered patients and those enrolled in vaccine trials.

[...] mink are highly susceptible to coronavirus, and since they outnumber humans three to one in Denmark, it was sensible to cull the animals to prevent them fuelling the epidemic.

Balloux criticised what he called “alarmist” messaging from Denmark over the threat the mutations posed, and said the cluster five variant may well have died out in humans because it failed to spread effectively.

“I really don’t think we should be particularly concerned about them. There are many other mutations not acquired in mink that are more concerning in terms of vaccine escape,” he said. One such mutation, known as N439K, has already been found to confer some resistance to antibodies.'

https://www.theguard...nish-mink-farms

]

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 08 November 2020 - 05:47 PM

[Gorefest]

Macros, on 08 November 2020 - 02:25 PM, said:

Liz, all this spoofing in the papers from the Tories about a vaccine incoming soon, total soon hogwash or what have your heard?

All I know is that they are pushing hard. We had a whole bunch of vaccine trial samples in the freezer which we intended to ship to Oxford this week, but I actually got a call on Monday almost begging us to ship asap. They didn't even want us to hold back the ones that were still in processing. So 7000 samples got sent across on Thursday, which apparently were redirected for processing on Friday. I don't think there is a chance in hell that we will see a vaccine approved and in clinic at least until late spring, but there is a real sense of urgency all of a sudden. Which makes me think that they are trying to get something together before Christmas, so they at the very least can make some sort of promising statement.

[Gorefest]

Mezla PigDog, on 08 November 2020 - 03:02 PM, said:

Even if a decent one is approved you have manufacturing ramp up first.

As far as I know they have already started to mass-produce the Oxford vaccine in India, so they have it ready to go once the green light is given. I think they are quite confident that the vaccine has a protective effect and works in all age groups. So I suspect they have seen a significant decrease in symptomatic patients in the vaccine group compared to the mock group.