[Garak]

But if you halt oil production how are oil companies gonna make that sweet, sweet money?

[Gorefest]

Imperial Historian, on 20 April 2020 - 05:52 PM, said:

Mez/Gorefest, can you offer any insight as to why the UK is lagging in testing for COVID19? In terms of infrastructure for these things I'd have thought the UK would be similar if not ahead of other european countries, so I'm surprised that the testing rate is growing so slowly in comparisson. Is it a raw materials issue, a leadership issue or something else?

I would say a bit of both. The UK haven't stockpiled essential goods sufficiently in recent years, there is little domestic production (most big chemical and medical companies are based in e.g. Germany and/or production is outsourced to places like India), and the Tory government has been very slow in taking this epidemic seriously. Everything was focussed on Brexit. There is definitely capacity, manpower and willingness to drastically ramp up testing, but there is a lack of essential chemicals for sample processing, as well as lack of capacity in the NHS to actually collect the samples. We were supposed to get through several dozens of patient samples per day by now for processing and research, but in practice it is just a trickle so far because nurses and doctors dont have time to collect them and consent people etc. No clue where exactly it went wrong to be honest, but there just doesn't seem to be any clear organisation at the top and we seem to be having all these local initiatives and volunteer programmes that are either all reinventing the wheel or draining each other's resources. What is lacking is a clear Government plan of approach on organised testing and centralised financing of this work. It is a mess, plain and simple.

[Kanese S's]

Lady Bliss, on 19 March 2020 - 06:25 PM, said:

Ok, I'm home and caught up. I agree that there is significant risk out there, but I feel like poverty is a greater risk, as I've lived through it and stand to lose my own home in this mess. The. US is simply not organized to deal with a crisis like this. So yes, it may sound selfish, but the collapse of our economy is more frightening to me than this virus.

This is why we need socialism.

[Imperial Historian]

Gorefest, on 20 April 2020 - 09:50 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 20 April 2020 - 05:52 PM, said:

Mez/Gorefest, can you offer any insight as to why the UK is lagging in testing for COVID19? In terms of infrastructure for these things I'd have thought the UK would be similar if not ahead of other european countries, so I'm surprised that the testing rate is growing so slowly in comparisson. Is it a raw materials issue, a leadership issue or something else?

I would say a bit of both. The UK haven't stockpiled essential goods sufficiently in recent years, there is little domestic production (most big chemical and medical companies are based in e.g. Germany and/or production is outsourced to places like India), and the Tory government has been very slow in taking this epidemic seriously. Everything was focussed on Brexit. There is definitely capacity, manpower and willingness to drastically ramp up testing, but there is a lack of essential chemicals for sample processing, as well as lack of capacity in the NHS to actually collect the samples. We were supposed to get through several dozens of patient samples per day by now for processing and research, but in practice it is just a trickle so far because nurses and doctors dont have time to collect them and consent people etc. No clue where exactly it went wrong to be honest, but there just doesn't seem to be any clear organisation at the top and we seem to be having all these local initiatives and volunteer programmes that are either all reinventing the wheel or draining each other's resources. What is lacking is a clear Government plan of approach on organised testing and centralised financing of this work. It is a mess, plain and simple.

Thanks. The way this is being handled does not fill me with confidence in the government. There seems to be a big gap in talent and leadership from the top.

The more that comes out with this ventilator debacle, the stupider it seems (govt response to get more ventilators is to go to completely different industries and ask them to make some, instead of going to the ventilator manufacturers themselves and linking them up with more resources to expand production).

Out of professional interest what chemicals are we short on?

[Lady Bliss]

Kanese S, on 20 April 2020 - 10:00 PM, said:

Lady Bliss, on 19 March 2020 - 06:25 PM, said:

Ok, I'm home and caught up. I agree that there is significant risk out there, but I feel like poverty is a greater risk, as I've lived through it and stand to lose my own home in this mess. The. US is simply not organized to deal with a crisis like this. So yes, it may sound selfish, but the collapse of our economy is more frightening to me than this virus.

This is why we need socialism.

I agree, and have been home bound, so totally supporting the doctors and scientists, but maybe there is some way we can save the folks that stand to lose everything.

[Gorefest]

Cause, on 20 April 2020 - 09:19 PM, said:

I don’t understand, we are running out of places to store oil. The price is now negative dollars. Can’t we halt production?

They already are. Problem is that on top of the covid-19 pandemic there was a resulting stand-off between Russia and Saudi Arabia, which led to the Saudis flooding the market with cheap oil. This led to the already historically low demand being redirected and many cancelled orders for predominantly US companies. So they are left with lots of unsellable barrels which were supposed to have been shipped internationally. A large number of rigs have already stopped producing altogether. However - and apologies for my very limited understanding of the process oil drilling - as far as I can gather you cannot just turn off an active rig like a water tap. It will keep flowing for some time, even when you take the pressure off, and you cannot just let that oil flow free. You still need to collect it and store it. So halting rpoduction from one day to the next isnt really feasible.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 20 April 2020 - 10:36 PM

[Gorefest]

Imperial Historian, on 20 April 2020 - 10:02 PM, said:

Out of professional interest what chemicals are we short on?

Well, I dont know all the ins and outs, Mezla is probably better placed to have an idea on that, but as far as I understand it is mainly RNA extraction reagents to process nasal and throat swabs for virus detection. As we currently still lack a reliable ELiSA test for covid-19, current tests are predominantly qPCR based. So it is chemicals like the guanidine thiocyanate which I mentioned earlier upthread. I have seen a lot of life sciences companies offering out extraction-free PCR kits, but I imagine they just see a way to lift along on the global problem and make a nice profit along the way.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 20 April 2020 - 10:29 PM

[Imperial Historian]

Yeah generally stopping an oil well is not an easy task, and has risks around restarting it. It's easier to slow oil production which is what most people are doing.

The US/Canada situation is different because most of there oil comes from shale oil which revolves around digging lots of wells and draining them quickly. I think shale is even harder to stop.

So at the moment we have lots of fresh shale wells producing lots of oil (i doubt any new shale wells will be dug for the rest of the year), we have saudi arabia and russia increasing production partly to drive these shale oil companies out of business and a massive drop in demand. Pretty much a perfect storm.

[Imperial Historian]

Gorefest, on 20 April 2020 - 10:25 PM, said:

Imperial Historian, on 20 April 2020 - 10:02 PM, said:

Out of professional interest what chemicals are we short on?

Well, I dont know all the ins and outs, Mezla is probably better placed to have an idea on that, but as far as I understand it is mainly RNA extraction reagents to process nasal and throat swabs for virus detection. As we currently still lack a reliable ELiSA test for covid-19, current tests are predominantly qPCR based. So it is chemicals like the guanidine thiocyanate which I mentioned earlier upthread. I have seen a lot of life sciences companies offering out extraction-free PCR kits, but I imagine they just see a way to lift along on the global problem and make a nice profit along the way.

Interesting. Makes sense cyanoamides aren't something you can quickly modify a factory to make. Wonder what innovations we will see coming from this crisis

[Cause]

More and more studies seem to suggest that for every confirmed case there are tens of unconfirmed cases. That’s sounds scary but it may be a good thing. If America has 7 million cases already and not 700k than the virus may burn out eventually.

Still I wonder about the a symptomic carries? Is it like TB, are the carriers just one stressful day from having the virus explode in their system?

[Mezla PigDog]

I got interrupted earlier but I think the current problem with PCR testing in the UK is a lack of a local approach to target sample collection. Unless they really don't have enough stuff and in that case I think it is swabs. The NHS has been rightly focusing on increasing its bed capacity in critical care but who is deciding locally where the tests are needed unless patients present at GPs. I have read convincing arguments that the German success is nothing to do with how many IVD companies they have and everything to do with devolved decision making allowing things to happen faster. And let's not forget that our public institutions were starting this from a point of crippling underfunding thanks to Tory austerity. You think PHE were somehow spared staff cuts that the NHS wasn't? The government are taking a top down approach and I'm guessing there is a dearth of knowledgable people on the ground - I've been surprised how shit PHE have been to be honest. I had a lot of respect for them as an institution and I can only imagine the problem is structural and compounded by poor long and short term pandemic planning by the government.

[Gorefest]

Yeah, I would agree with thst. As I said upstream, I think one of the main issues is lack of central guidance. The logistics are just a mess. We have been processing patient swabs and blood samples for around 4 weeks now which were supposed to be shipped on to Liverpool for further analysis, but they are all still sitting in the -80 freezer on our site. Which seems crazy.

[Tsundoku]

Sometimes the universe does have a sense of humour:

https://www.news.com...505c0463879bdee

Coronavirus: Man dies of COVID-19 after blasting restrictions as ‘bulls**t’
A US man who claimed COVID-19 was a political ploy and called lockdown restrictions “bulls**t” has died after contracting the virus.

Lucy Sherriff
The Sun APRIL 21, 20207:08PM

A dad who reportedly said the coronavirus was a political ploy, and called his state’s lockdown “bulls***” has died of COVID-19.

John W. McDaniel, from Marion County in Ohio, was diagnosed with the virus in late March, and died in hospital on April 15, The Sun reports.

The 60-year-old man had allegedly posted several times on Facebook regarding the coronavirus, and the posts have been circulated widely on social media.

On March 15, he seemingly commented on Ohio governor Mike DeWine’s stay-at home order, which required shops, bars and restaurants to close.

“If what I’m hearing is true, that DeWine has ordered all bars and restaurants to be closed, I say bulls***!,” the post reads.

“He doesn’t have that authority. If you are paranoid about getting sick just don’t go out. It shouldn’t keep those of us from living our lives.

“The madness has to stop.”

In another post, also believed to have been written by McDaniel, he asks: “Does anybody have the guts to say this Covid19 is a political ploy? Asking for a friend. Prove me wrong.”

McDaniel’s page appears to have since been taken down from Facebook.

----------------------------

Reminds me of that old tale about a general who died in battle. His last words were apparently along the lines of "Don't worry, they couldn't possibly hit us at this ----".

[Aptorian]

That man was the victim of a political assassination.

[Obdigore]

Aptorian, on 21 April 2020 - 10:13 AM, said:

That man was the victim of a political assassination.

I'm sure the deep state clintons had him killed to prevent the rest of us from getting haircuts so they can keep using our fast casual restaurants to each children, or whatever those Q people believe now.

[QuickTidal]

It bothers me that there are people out there who have had family members die from this who STILL perpetuate that it's a hoax of some kind. The son of that minister who died after making fun of it...still talks about it being a hoax...and his MFing Dad DIED from it...

Like you can't help these people, there are braindead monkeys with more sense.

[Primateus]

QuickTidal, on 21 April 2020 - 05:47 PM, said:

It bothers me that there are people out there who have had family members die from this who STILL perpetuate that it's a hoax of some kind. The son of that minister who died after making fun of it...still talks about it being a hoax...and his MFing Dad DIED from it...

Like you can't help these people, there are braindead monkeys with more sense.

Unfortunately, stupid people is going to stupid. Not much that can be done about it.

[QuickTidal]

Briar King, on 21 April 2020 - 06:39 PM, said:

Only 300+ new cases. It’s fucked that that is something to celebrate. 24.8K cases.

Almost to 1.5K deaths.

I hate to say it BK, but with a bunch of US States having just had protests thick with idiots not social distancing at all, your whole country is about a week or two out from a SEVERE second wave of this virus from them...it's going to be like the Spanish Flu Second Wave 2.0... You unfortunately live in a country full of idiots who either didn't believe the virus was real, or didn't like staying home.

I hope your state remains unscathed..but if they start opening up other ones as they seem to want to, you're going to need only one dude to be a vector from one of those states to visit and reinfect yours.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 21 April 2020 - 07:27 PM

[Macros]

I bave a feeling when we hit our second wave, the US will be on 3rd or 4th

[Aptorian]

When watching TV or consuming any other kind of media, are you guys constantly reflecting on the characters actions in relation to Corona? I keep having this twitch every time I see an actor shaking hands or hugging somebody, drinking from a bottle, being in a crowd, etc. It's funny how quickly your perspective changes.