Help
So, Malazan Empire was down for about 6 hours this morning. I've just finished resolving the issue and doing what I can to repair damage done to the database.
Late last year, probably on December 1, the site was hacked again. Somebody added unchanged tutorial code (courtesy of L3g3nd4ryH4ck3r from HackForums.net) to one of the skin cache files without changing any of the parameters. In other words, it was harmless, but it started filling the server logs with gigabytes of junk entries.
For some reason, DigitalOcean decided to remove the disk space alert I'd set up and so the drive filled to 100%, causing MySQL to keel over, crashing the post cache table. I don't know if any data was actually lost given that, as the name suggests, this table contains cached data rather than the source. I'm rebuilding the post cache at time of writing, hoping that it'll resolve any potential corruption.
There is very little I can do to prevent further hacks. The forum software is extremely old, with numerous security problems. It also runs on software that is well past its end of life.
You guys should decide on a long-term plan for the site. Eventually, it just may not be possible to keep it running in its current state.
Downtime, 9/8/2019
#3
Tsundoku 
- A what?
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- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 4,804
- Joined: 06-January 03
- Location:Maison de merde
Posted 09 August 2019 - 11:47 AM
Damn, this feels like how I imagine having to make a decision about when to put Mum in an old folks home.
Thanks anyway Xae, and good question.
Thanks anyway Xae, and good question.
This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 09 August 2019 - 11:47 AM
"Fortune favors the bold, though statistics favor the cautious." - Indomitable Courteous (Icy) Fist, The Palace Job - Patrick Weekes
"Well well well ... if it ain't The Invisible C**t." - Billy Butcher, The Boys
"I have strong views about not tempting providence and, as a wise man once said, the difference between luck and a wheelbarrow is, luck doesn’t work if you push it." - Colonel Orhan, Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City - KJ Parker
"Well well well ... if it ain't The Invisible C**t." - Billy Butcher, The Boys
"I have strong views about not tempting providence and, as a wise man once said, the difference between luck and a wheelbarrow is, luck doesn’t work if you push it." - Colonel Orhan, Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City - KJ Parker
#4
QuickTidal
- Frog
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- Group: Team Quick Ben
- Posts: 21,339
- Joined: 05-November 05
- Location:Nowhere Specific
- Interests:Nothing, just sitting. Quietly.
Posted 09 August 2019 - 01:16 PM
Is there anywhere to migrate to? Even if we have to re-start the entire shebang/new threads? Not sure what the "forum" world online looks like...or if we'd end up making a subreddit instead...
"When the last tree has fallen, and the rivers are poisoned, you cannot eat money, oh no." ~Aurora
“Someone will always try to sell you despair, just so they don't feel alone.” ~Ursula Vernon
“Someone will always try to sell you despair, just so they don't feel alone.” ~Ursula Vernon
#5
Whisperzzzzzzz
- Reaper's Fail
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 2,451
- Joined: 10-May 10
- Location:Westchester, NY
Posted 09 August 2019 - 01:21 PM
Can we transfer the database to whatever newer format is required for the newest version of IPBoard and update to that newest version?
We should definitely have a plan laid out in which:
- The forum runs on maintained software that keeps this traditional forum layout (not Discourse or a Reddit clone)
- Old content is kept (not archived or lost, that kills a community)
- There is redundancy amongst staff that have access to administrate the server
- There are backups on the server and off-site
EDIT: It looks like a self-hosted version of the newest IPBoard software would require an upfront fee of $200. (There's also a $25 fee every 6 months if we subscribe to get software updates). So, $200 upfront + $50 a year to be up-to-date. I think we could handle that...
Not sure about transferring this database to the new version though.
EDIT2: I would be against starting a "subreddit". I block Reddit for a reason...
EDIT3: Not sure what version of IPB we're on now, but Invision does offer database migration tools. Xae or Silencer, could one of you PM me the version and I'll reach out to Invision support to see if a migration would be feasible?
We should definitely have a plan laid out in which:
- The forum runs on maintained software that keeps this traditional forum layout (not Discourse or a Reddit clone)
- Old content is kept (not archived or lost, that kills a community)
- There is redundancy amongst staff that have access to administrate the server
- There are backups on the server and off-site
EDIT: It looks like a self-hosted version of the newest IPBoard software would require an upfront fee of $200. (There's also a $25 fee every 6 months if we subscribe to get software updates). So, $200 upfront + $50 a year to be up-to-date. I think we could handle that...
Not sure about transferring this database to the new version though.
EDIT2: I would be against starting a "subreddit". I block Reddit for a reason...
EDIT3: Not sure what version of IPB we're on now, but Invision does offer database migration tools. Xae or Silencer, could one of you PM me the version and I'll reach out to Invision support to see if a migration would be feasible?
This post has been edited by Whisperzzzzzzz: 09 August 2019 - 01:30 PM
#6
Itwæs Nom
- Inquisitor of High House Mafia
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- Group: High House Mafia
- Posts: 1,538
- Joined: 02-August 15
Posted 09 August 2019 - 01:30 PM
Plus there already is an r/malazan
Didn't Xae or someone say never ever to update to the newest IPB in some other site maintenance thread recently, maybe regarding the chat function?
Didn't Xae or someone say never ever to update to the newest IPB in some other site maintenance thread recently, maybe regarding the chat function?
This post has been edited by Itwæs Nom: 09 August 2019 - 01:32 PM
All things fall from kings to rose petals
#7
Whisperzzzzzzz
- Reaper's Fail
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- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 2,451
- Joined: 10-May 10
- Location:Westchester, NY
Posted 09 August 2019 - 01:51 PM
Itwæs Nom, on 09 August 2019 - 01:30 PM, said:
Plus there already is an r/malazan
Didn't Xae or someone say never ever to update to the newest IPB in some other site maintenance thread recently, maybe regarding the chat function?
Didn't Xae or someone say never ever to update to the newest IPB in some other site maintenance thread recently, maybe regarding the chat function?
Invision does offer a migration tool. In theory, it should support previous versions of their forum software.
Also, with the minimum upgrade I'm proposing, I think we might lose some features — chat (no longer supported by IPB? Not sure, could be available as an addon), gallery (costs extra, and we already have all images in the wiki). But, we'd be keeping and securing the main component — this community.
#9
Aptorian
- How 'bout a hug?
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- Group: The Wheelchairs of War
- Posts: 24,785
- Joined: 22-May 06
Posted 09 August 2019 - 02:37 PM
I'd very much be against moving to another, bigger, already established forum like Reddit.
The Malazan Empire is our island. A place on the internet you can can engage with a bunch of regulars and have a normal conversation about what your poop was like today.
Even if our old content can't be migrated, then a new forum would be worth it to maintain our sanctuary.
The Malazan Empire is our island. A place on the internet you can can engage with a bunch of regulars and have a normal conversation about what your poop was like today.
Even if our old content can't be migrated, then a new forum would be worth it to maintain our sanctuary.
#10
Silencer
- Manipulating Special Data
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- Group: Administrators
- Posts: 5,682
- Joined: 07-July 07
- Location:New Zealand
-
Interests:Malazan Book of the Fallen series.
Computer Game Design.
Programming.
Posted 09 August 2019 - 03:12 PM
We can definitely look at migrating to a new version. Previously when it's been brought up the concerns have been around content being carried over (notably after the tragedy that was our last software migration, but that's not likely to be a huge issue now given that was more to do with people not giving access to backups), loss of custom features such as the forum skins Hetan and Mal paid a decent amount to get custom created or licensed, and of course the rep system (that would all be wiped out, though IPB4 does now have its own rep system of some kind).
There is in general a lack of good forum software out there these days, largely having been killed off by the rise of social media, Reddit, and comments sections. IPB still exists in some form or other, but last time we were talking about this IPB4 was not stable or feature complete, and it wasn't worth the effort to migrate to an inferior platform. Obviously security concerns were on our radar, but given the generally non-critical nature of the content here and relative lack of reasons to target us compared to other, larger, more active communities that are more closely tied to valuable social media platforms, it wasn't urgent. Arguably, it still isn't, today's scare notwithstanding. But that's not necessarily a reason not to make the move, either, or as Xae suggests make a plan for the near future.
IP Chat has been dead for some time, so we wouldn't be losing it, but we wouldn't be getting it back on IPB4 either. Other software might offer chat features, but as mentioned above, robust forum software has been a bit of a waning product offering.
Cost of the move isn't an issue, the forum war chest is fairly robust (though obviously we aren't keen on throwing away what is mostly generous member donations on unnecessary features or trivialities) so we can afford any licensing costs that aren't business-tier (not like we would need that, lol).
There is in general a lack of good forum software out there these days, largely having been killed off by the rise of social media, Reddit, and comments sections. IPB still exists in some form or other, but last time we were talking about this IPB4 was not stable or feature complete, and it wasn't worth the effort to migrate to an inferior platform. Obviously security concerns were on our radar, but given the generally non-critical nature of the content here and relative lack of reasons to target us compared to other, larger, more active communities that are more closely tied to valuable social media platforms, it wasn't urgent. Arguably, it still isn't, today's scare notwithstanding. But that's not necessarily a reason not to make the move, either, or as Xae suggests make a plan for the near future.
IP Chat has been dead for some time, so we wouldn't be losing it, but we wouldn't be getting it back on IPB4 either. Other software might offer chat features, but as mentioned above, robust forum software has been a bit of a waning product offering.
Cost of the move isn't an issue, the forum war chest is fairly robust (though obviously we aren't keen on throwing away what is mostly generous member donations on unnecessary features or trivialities) so we can afford any licensing costs that aren't business-tier (not like we would need that, lol).
***
Shinrei said:
<Vote Silencer> For not garnering any heat or any love for that matter. And I'm being serious here, it's like a mental block that is there, and you just keep forgetting it.
#11
Andorion
- God
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- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 4,516
- Joined: 30-July 11
- Interests:All things Malazan, sundry sci-fi and fantasy, history, Iron Maiden
Posted 09 August 2019 - 04:08 PM
Regarding Reddit I am a mod of two subs there, including a very big one. So I see some of the behind the scenes stuff and its not good.
That platform would not suit us at all. Its incredibly toxic. And the old vs new reddit design problems, the basically different format of the site itself, its just a very bad idea.
If I am reading Silencer's comment correctly, a transfer is viable. And I say we do it. We lose the rep. But that does not really matter. I mean the worst outcome is Abyss starts a campaign to be the new emperor of rep.
Also good to hear about the financial situation, but if extra is needed, I can try to help.
That platform would not suit us at all. Its incredibly toxic. And the old vs new reddit design problems, the basically different format of the site itself, its just a very bad idea.
If I am reading Silencer's comment correctly, a transfer is viable. And I say we do it. We lose the rep. But that does not really matter. I mean the worst outcome is Abyss starts a campaign to be the new emperor of rep.
Also good to hear about the financial situation, but if extra is needed, I can try to help.
#12
Whisperzzzzzzz
- Reaper's Fail
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 2,451
- Joined: 10-May 10
- Location:Westchester, NY
Posted 09 August 2019 - 04:13 PM
Silencer, on 09 August 2019 - 03:12 PM, said:
We can definitely look at migrating to a new version. Previously when it's been brought up the concerns have been around content being carried over (notably after the tragedy that was our last software migration, but that's not likely to be a huge issue now given that was more to do with people not giving access to backups), loss of custom features such as the forum skins Hetan and Mal paid a decent amount to get custom created or licensed, and of course the rep system (that would all be wiped out, though IPB4 does now have its own rep system of some kind).
There is in general a lack of good forum software out there these days, largely having been killed off by the rise of social media, Reddit, and comments sections. IPB still exists in some form or other, but last time we were talking about this IPB4 was not stable or feature complete, and it wasn't worth the effort to migrate to an inferior platform. Obviously security concerns were on our radar, but given the generally non-critical nature of the content here and relative lack of reasons to target us compared to other, larger, more active communities that are more closely tied to valuable social media platforms, it wasn't urgent. Arguably, it still isn't, today's scare notwithstanding. But that's not necessarily a reason not to make the move, either, or as Xae suggests make a plan for the near future.
IP Chat has been dead for some time, so we wouldn't be losing it, but we wouldn't be getting it back on IPB4 either. Other software might offer chat features, but as mentioned above, robust forum software has been a bit of a waning product offering.
Cost of the move isn't an issue, the forum war chest is fairly robust (though obviously we aren't keen on throwing away what is mostly generous member donations on unnecessary features or trivialities) so we can afford any licensing costs that aren't business-tier (not like we would need that, lol).
There is in general a lack of good forum software out there these days, largely having been killed off by the rise of social media, Reddit, and comments sections. IPB still exists in some form or other, but last time we were talking about this IPB4 was not stable or feature complete, and it wasn't worth the effort to migrate to an inferior platform. Obviously security concerns were on our radar, but given the generally non-critical nature of the content here and relative lack of reasons to target us compared to other, larger, more active communities that are more closely tied to valuable social media platforms, it wasn't urgent. Arguably, it still isn't, today's scare notwithstanding. But that's not necessarily a reason not to make the move, either, or as Xae suggests make a plan for the near future.
IP Chat has been dead for some time, so we wouldn't be losing it, but we wouldn't be getting it back on IPB4 either. Other software might offer chat features, but as mentioned above, robust forum software has been a bit of a waning product offering.
Cost of the move isn't an issue, the forum war chest is fairly robust (though obviously we aren't keen on throwing away what is mostly generous member donations on unnecessary features or trivialities) so we can afford any licensing costs that aren't business-tier (not like we would need that, lol).
Touching just on the forum skins — I'd volunteer some time to migrate the primary Malazan Empire skin. It's emblematic of this website.
As for the rest, we need a quorum!
#13
Aptorian
- How 'bout a hug?
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- Group: The Wheelchairs of War
- Posts: 24,785
- Joined: 22-May 06
Posted 09 August 2019 - 04:14 PM
Regarding financing I'd also suggest that if moving/building a new forum is very time consuming, let us now and I'm sure we could pool some money to reimburse Xae and Silencer for their time.
No money for the mods because they all suck anyway!
Edit: Only skin worth keeping is grey!
No money for the mods because they all suck anyway!
Edit: Only skin worth keeping is grey!
This post has been edited by Aptorian: 09 August 2019 - 04:15 PM
#14
Andorion
- God
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- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 4,516
- Joined: 30-July 11
- Interests:All things Malazan, sundry sci-fi and fantasy, history, Iron Maiden
Posted 09 August 2019 - 04:19 PM
Aptorian, on 09 August 2019 - 04:14 PM, said:
Regarding financing I'd also suggest that if moving/building a new forum is very time consuming, let us now and I'm sure we could pool some money to reimburse Xae and Silencer for their time.
No money for the mods because they all suck anyway!
Edit: Only skin worth keeping is grey!
No money for the mods because they all suck anyway!
Edit: Only skin worth keeping is grey!
I like Venom
#15
QuickTidal
- Frog
-
- Group: Team Quick Ben
- Posts: 21,339
- Joined: 05-November 05
- Location:Nowhere Specific
- Interests:Nothing, just sitting. Quietly.
Posted 09 August 2019 - 04:21 PM
Andorion, on 09 August 2019 - 04:08 PM, said:
Regarding Reddit I am a mod of two subs there, including a very big one. So I see some of the behind the scenes stuff and its not good.
That platform would not suit us at all. Its incredibly toxic. And the old vs new reddit design problems, the basically different format of the site itself, its just a very bad idea.
If I am reading Silencer's comment correctly, a transfer is viable. And I say we do it. We lose the rep. But that does not really matter. I mean the worst outcome is Abyss starts a campaign to be the new emperor of rep.
Also good to hear about the financial situation, but if extra is needed, I can try to help.
That platform would not suit us at all. Its incredibly toxic. And the old vs new reddit design problems, the basically different format of the site itself, its just a very bad idea.
If I am reading Silencer's comment correctly, a transfer is viable. And I say we do it. We lose the rep. But that does not really matter. I mean the worst outcome is Abyss starts a campaign to be the new emperor of rep.
Also good to hear about the financial situation, but if extra is needed, I can try to help.
Fair, I was just ball parking ideas. I don't dive too deeply into reddit...mostly just lurk.
"When the last tree has fallen, and the rivers are poisoned, you cannot eat money, oh no." ~Aurora
“Someone will always try to sell you despair, just so they don't feel alone.” ~Ursula Vernon
“Someone will always try to sell you despair, just so they don't feel alone.” ~Ursula Vernon
#16
Andorion
- God
-
- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 4,516
- Joined: 30-July 11
- Interests:All things Malazan, sundry sci-fi and fantasy, history, Iron Maiden
Posted 09 August 2019 - 04:23 PM
QuickTidal, on 09 August 2019 - 04:21 PM, said:
Andorion, on 09 August 2019 - 04:08 PM, said:
Regarding Reddit I am a mod of two subs there, including a very big one. So I see some of the behind the scenes stuff and its not good.
That platform would not suit us at all. Its incredibly toxic. And the old vs new reddit design problems, the basically different format of the site itself, its just a very bad idea.
If I am reading Silencer's comment correctly, a transfer is viable. And I say we do it. We lose the rep. But that does not really matter. I mean the worst outcome is Abyss starts a campaign to be the new emperor of rep.
Also good to hear about the financial situation, but if extra is needed, I can try to help.
That platform would not suit us at all. Its incredibly toxic. And the old vs new reddit design problems, the basically different format of the site itself, its just a very bad idea.
If I am reading Silencer's comment correctly, a transfer is viable. And I say we do it. We lose the rep. But that does not really matter. I mean the worst outcome is Abyss starts a campaign to be the new emperor of rep.
Also good to hear about the financial situation, but if extra is needed, I can try to help.
Fair, I was just ball parking ideas. I don't dive too deeply into reddit...mostly just lurk.
r/fantasy and r/Malazan are both nice places.
But there are many many subs and many people who are utter malcontents
#17
HoosierDaddy
- Believer
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- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 7,946
- Joined: 30-June 08
- Location:Indianapolis
- Interests:Football
Posted 09 August 2019 - 04:40 PM
Andorion, on 09 August 2019 - 04:19 PM, said:
Aptorian, on 09 August 2019 - 04:14 PM, said:
Regarding financing I'd also suggest that if moving/building a new forum is very time consuming, let us now and I'm sure we could pool some money to reimburse Xae and Silencer for their time.
No money for the mods because they all suck anyway!
Edit: Only skin worth keeping is grey!
No money for the mods because they all suck anyway!
Edit: Only skin worth keeping is grey!
I like Venom
Weirdo.
Trouble arrives when the opponents to such a system institute its extreme opposite, where individualism becomes godlike and sacrosanct, and no greater service to any other ideal (including community) is possible. In such a system rapacious greed thrives behind the guise of freedom, and the worst aspects of human nature come to the fore....
#18
Abyss
- abyssus abyssum invocat
-
- Group: Administrators
- Posts: 21,981
- Joined: 22-May 03
- Location:The call is coming from inside the house!!!!
- Interests:Interesting.
Posted 09 August 2019 - 05:45 PM
Aptorian, on 09 August 2019 - 04:14 PM, said:
Regarding financing I'd also suggest that if moving/building a new forum is very time consuming, let us now and I'm sure we could pool some money to reimburse Xae and Silencer for their time.
No money for the mods because they all suck anyway!
No money for the mods because they all suck anyway!
I accept whiskey, sex, cigars, baked goods.
THIS IS YOUR REMINDER THAT THERE IS A
'VIEW NEW CONTENT' BUTTON THAT
ALLOWS YOU TO VIEW NEW CONTENT
'VIEW NEW CONTENT' BUTTON THAT
ALLOWS YOU TO VIEW NEW CONTENT
#19
Vengeance
- High Priest of Shinrei Love and Worship
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- Group: Administrators
- Posts: 3,960
- Joined: 27-June 07
- Location:Chicago
- very good...;)
Posted 09 August 2019 - 06:31 PM
Abyss, on 09 August 2019 - 05:45 PM, said:
Aptorian, on 09 August 2019 - 04:14 PM, said:
Regarding financing I'd also suggest that if moving/building a new forum is very time consuming, let us now and I'm sure we could pool some money to reimburse Xae and Silencer for their time.
No money for the mods because they all suck anyway!
No money for the mods because they all suck anyway!
I accept whiskey, sex, cigars, baked goods.
If you have never felt the embrace of Chulhu, now is your time.
How many fucking people do I have to hammer in order to get that across.
Hinter - Vengy - DIE. I trusted you you bastard!!!!!!!
Steven Erikson made drowning in alien cum possible - Obdigore
Hinter - Vengy - DIE. I trusted you you bastard!!!!!!!
Steven Erikson made drowning in alien cum possible - Obdigore
#20
worry
- Master of the Deck
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- Group: Malaz Regular
- Posts: 14,690
- Joined: 24-February 10
- Location:the buried west
Posted 09 August 2019 - 06:45 PM
Is there any way to make it so that when you navigate to the new board it autoplays a MIDI file of a 90s hit (eg 'One Week' by Barenaked Ladies, 'Not An Addict' by K's Choice, etc.)
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
