[Gorefest]

Gorefest, on 10 May 2019 - 12:05 PM, said:

Several series and films, although it is often a bit more ambiguous than just 'waking up from a dream'. Mulholland Drive springs to mind

I guess in a way I could mention Big Fish as well, although that wasn't so much a dream as embellished story telling.

(Both excellent films btw, before someone mistakes my intent.)

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 10 May 2019 - 12:24 PM

[amphibian]

QuickTidal will tell you that he loved the Lost last season and the reunion in the after life. He's also telling you that he generally loves this season of GoT. So they're going to end GoT with similar thematic elements dominating what's on screen more than the plot that has come previously, if the similarities continue.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Gorefest, on 10 May 2019 - 12:23 PM, said:

I guess in a way I could mention Big Fish as well

I ADORE that film. Have you seen Secondhand Lions? That has a really similar vibe and yet barely anyone I know has seen/heard of it. Highly recommend it!

Anyway, sorry, I'll stop derailing the Thrones thread now. To be back on topic, I still want heads to roll for them upsetting Brienne. But otherwise I'm not very hopeful for the ending. I did have a glance at the "leaks" on Reddit (from people who apparently got the content of the season so far spot on before it aired) and..... well, meh. We will see if it goes that way but I'm not sure it's salvageable now whichever way it ends up going.

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 10 May 2019 - 12:41 PM

[QuickTidal]

Gorefest, on 10 May 2019 - 12:06 PM, said:

And of course 'Lost' pulled out the afterlife scenario card to explain the car crash that they had become.

People misunderstand this.

The so-called afterlife bits (called "Flash Sideways") only existed in the last season and only existed to allow the people who went through all this a "waiting room" so they could all move on together into the afterlife as a final act. The whole season of main story still happened, as did everything else. This is why the cast and crew adopted the phrase "What happened, Happened" because so many people misconstrued the point of the Flash Sideways to the Waiting Room portion where Desmond went around and gathered their souls as they died in their own timelines. There was no other "afterlife" aspect to it, and that portion doesn't interfere with the main story at all. So no, it was not a "card pulled" to explain anything. It was a way to unite everyone who died during the show with everyone who died later in one spot as the show ended. That's it.

LOST was amazing. It was about the journey of the characters, not the answers. But I have found over the years that audiences split into those that cared more about the mysteries and the answers, than the characters and the journey. I cared more about the latter, so I loved every second of (and I watched all 6 seasons through twice).

amphibian, on 10 May 2019 - 12:34 PM, said:

QuickTidal will tell you that he loved the Lost last season and the reunion in the after life. He's also telling you that he generally loves this season of GoT. So they're going to end GoT with similar thematic elements dominating what's on screen more than the plot that has come previously, if the similarities continue.

HA! This is very true.

And on topic with loving this season of GoT. Yeah, I'm enjoying it a lot and to be frank if it ends up the whole thing was more about the journey (like LOST), then I think I'll be fine.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 10 May 2019 - 01:05 PM

[Tattersail_]

Lost was fantastic. I cared about it a lot. Lots of emotions entwined within it. Charlie under water writing a message on his hand, absolutely awesome. It didn't deviate from itself though, this show, Dany reaching kingslanding before Jon Snow seems weird. Teleportation?

[Gorefest]

@QT: I'm sort of with you on this and sort of not. For me it was both the characters and the mysteries. I've seen the whole series 2-3 times, so I'm definitely not dissing it and I appreciate that there is more to it than the simplistic 'they were all dead all along' trope that people seem to have stamped on it. Nevertheless, it has some serious gaps and i still find the whole round-up incredibly weak. That does not detract from my overall enjoyment of the series, but it did feel terribly anti-climactic. I fear the same for GoT, where I still enjoy large parts of it and I am very grateful for HBO and B&W for taking the gamble in putting such a sprawling fantasy on TV, but where the intricate build-up from the earlier days is replaced by a huge sense that even they have no clue where they are going with it.

With Lost I got the strong sense after several seasons that JJ Abrams and co actually didn't really have a clear idea where they were taking all their interesting ideas and they were just making it up as they went along. With B&W I now know this for a fact. Both series still have a soft spot with me, but it has turned what could have been amazing mindblowing TV into 'merely' enjoyable. And that's a crying shame.

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 10 May 2019 - 01:14 PM

[Tattersail_]

They've just rushed the ending here, I think that's the main gripe. They could have went for 20 episode ending, and had reasonable pacing that left us hoping things were okay, and shocking us with certain other things. Definitely think Tyrion should have been killed last episode, it made sense.

[Nevyn]

Tattersail_, on 10 May 2019 - 01:20 PM, said:

They've just rushed the ending here, I think that's the main gripe. They could have went for 20 episode ending, and had reasonable pacing that left us hoping things were okay, and shocking us with certain other things. Definitely think Tyrion should have been killed last episode, it made sense.

This has mostly been inevitable.

A lot of the appeal of the show, and a lot of the original pacing was about having so many threads to follow and so many plots.

To keep the same pacing you would have to end the show with a lot unresolved. Which is possible, but would bring its own wave of complaints.

Part of the reason things are accelerating so much is that they are closing off plot threads. There aren't 6 other locales with intrigue to track for an episode while an army musters and marches. And there are a dwindling number of players in the game, which makes things particularly tough if you still want surprising moments because no one can talk about what they are planning if it is meant to be a surprise moment on the show. Just hints, knowing smiles, and the only time you get to hear a plan is when you get to see how it all went wrong.

[QuickTidal]

Gorefest, on 10 May 2019 - 01:12 PM, said:

@QT: I'm sort of with you on this and sort of not. For me it was both the characters and the mysteries. I've seen the whole series 2-3 times, so I'm definitely not dissing it and I appreciate that there is more to it than the simplistic 'they were all dead all along' trope that people seem to have stamped on it. Nevertheless, it has some serious gaps and i still find the whole round-up incredibly weak. That does not detract from my overall enjoyment of the series, but it did feel terribly anti-climactic. I fear the same for GoT, where I still enjoy large parts of it and I am very grateful for HBO and B&W for taking the gamble in putting such a sprawling fantasy on TV, but where the intricate build-up from the earlier days is replaced by a huge sense that even they have no clue where they are going with it.

Yeah, that's fair.

Gorefest, on 10 May 2019 - 01:12 PM, said:

With Lost I got the strong sense after several seasons that JJ Abrams and co actually didn't really have a clear idea where they were taking all their interesting ideas and they were just making it up as they went along. With B&W I now know this for a fact. Both series still have a soft spot with me, but it has turned what could have been amazing mindblowing TV into 'merely' enjoyable. And that's a crying shame.

JJ was not involved much at all after Season 1. It became Lindelof and Carlton Cuse's baby for the rest of its run with JJ only peripherally involved. A lot of people point at the ending of LOST as a reason to slam JJ Abrams, when he was barely involved in where it went.

That said, I will happily admit that SOME of the choices in the later seasons of LOST felt a tad underwhelming (three-toed statue is my biggest "unexplained" gripe actually) as far as the mysteries were concerned...but I was won over by the characters and relationships. One of my favourite moments on the entire show was:

Spoiler

After spending a whole episode fruitlessly trying to save Boone's life, Jack loses him and when Shannon and Sayid return from their "date" as everyone is celebrating the birth of Aaron...he has to tell her. The score music ('Lost and Found') and her little step back in the sand as she realizes DESTROYS me every time.



Close second is Hurley finding out about Charlie's death/sacrifice.

It's the above stuff that really hammers out why I loved this show and why I was so sad to see these characters go.

...and I STILL consider Episode 4 THE CONSTANT the finest and tightest hour of television I've ever watched in my life.

[Cause]

Tattersail_, on 10 May 2019 - 01:08 PM, said:

Lost was fantastic. I cared about it a lot. Lots of emotions entwined within it. Charlie under water writing a message on his hand, absolutely awesome. It didn't deviate from itself though, this show, Dany reaching kingslanding before Jon Snow seems weird. Teleportation?

Taking a ship should be faster than marching.

However its winter in the north! Not withstanding that killing the nightking might warm things up some, marching an army south during winter should straight up be impossible. People would die every day to starvation and frostbite if they could even march through the snows. Remember Stannis had to burn his daughter alive and things were warmer back then. Also the winter storms apparently make ship travel very treacherous if not outright impossible, I forget. Also its yet to snow in the south but according to the worlds lore it should. In the books I believe snowflakes fall at Riverrun just as Jaime wins the castle. The entire idea of multi-year winters has been forgotten, as has the consequences of the war of the five kings meaning that the harvests have been particularly poor of late. No one should be able to continue the fight.



The show has just brushed that aside because waiting out a 1-10 year winter would I guess make bad television.

This post has been edited by Cause: 10 May 2019 - 02:06 PM

[Gorefest]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 10 May 2019 - 12:39 PM, said:

I ADORE that film. Have you seen Secondhand Lions? That has a really similar vibe and yet barely anyone I know has seen/heard of it. Highly recommend it!

I haven't actually. I'll definitely give it a go, thanks! Big Fish is one of my all time favourite films.

[Slow Ben]

QuickTidal, on 10 May 2019 - 02:01 PM, said:

...and I STILL consider Episode 4 THE CONSTANT the finest and tightest hour of television I've ever watched in my life.

100%

"I'm calling my bloody constant!"

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 10 May 2019 - 12:39 PM, said:

Gorefest, on 10 May 2019 - 12:23 PM, said:

I guess in a way I could mention Big Fish as well

Anyway, sorry, I'll stop derailing the Thrones thread now. To be back on topic, I still want heads to roll for them upsetting Brienne. But otherwise I'm not very hopeful for the ending. I did have a glance at the "leaks" on Reddit (from people who apparently got the content of the season so far spot on before it aired) and..... well, meh. We will see if it goes that way but I'm not sure it's salvageable now whichever way it ends up going.

I'm skeptical for one main reason:

Spoiler

If that's the ending, then they'd almost certainly have footage of Jon petting Ghost. But they said that involved too much technical difficulty to be bothered with in episode 4 or 5. While this could be an intentional ploy to discredit spoilers, it seems very unlikely.

Also... Jon fights and kills Drogon?... foreshadowed by Jon and the ice dragon, maybe, but ugh.

They never determine who ends up ruling at the end? Jon's just like 'you figure it out, I'm leaving'....

GRRM ends his novels on a 'oh no the WW are still out there' cliffhanger? That would almost certainly lead to an overwhelming demand for more books in the series? Granted, they could have tacked that on at the end for HBO's benefit....

[Abyss]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 10 May 2019 - 10:46 AM, said:

Azath Vitr (D, on 10 May 2019 - 02:56 AM, said:

'If you're tired of feeling like Game of Thrones is making it obvious what's going to happen in its final two episodes, try this for a surprising twist. We're on the brink of war between Daenerys Targaryen and Cersei Lannister. All the forces are aligned. And just when the battle is about to begin, the Seven appear. You know, the Father, the Mother, the Smith, the Maiden, the Stranger, the Crone, the Warrior—the embodiments of the divine worshipped by a good chunk of Westeros. Instead of allowing the people who survived the Night King's assault to slaughter one another just as a yearslong winter is about to start, the Seven intervene and create a new order, with civic institutions to adjudicate disputes (even those involving rulers), an end to feudalism, and a newly robust state with a monopoly on the use of force.

I love this ending. It's shocking, it reconnects with the source material's deep skepticism about the efficacy of violence, and it's the way that the story of the House of Atreus, the original multigenerational revenge saga, ends in Aeschylus' Oresteia.'

https://slate.com/cu...nes-ending.html

θεῶν τε κυμάτων ἀνήριθμον γέλασμα καί!...

I hope not. Battlestar Galactica already did the equivalent of this, and it was awful.

I would bet other people's body parts that this is not going to happen.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Azath Vitr (D, on 10 May 2019 - 04:15 PM, said:

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 10 May 2019 - 12:39 PM, said:

Gorefest, on 10 May 2019 - 12:23 PM, said:

I guess in a way I could mention Big Fish as well

Anyway, sorry, I'll stop derailing the Thrones thread now. To be back on topic, I still want heads to roll for them upsetting Brienne. But otherwise I'm not very hopeful for the ending. I did have a glance at the "leaks" on Reddit (from people who apparently got the content of the season so far spot on before it aired) and..... well, meh. We will see if it goes that way but I'm not sure it's salvageable now whichever way it ends up going.

I'm skeptical for one main reason:

Spoiler

If that's the ending, then they'd almost certainly have footage of Jon petting Ghost. But they said that involved too much technical difficulty to be bothered with in episode 4 or 5. While this could be an intentional ploy to discredit spoilers, it seems very unlikely.

Also... Jon fights and kills Drogon?... foreshadowed by Jon and the ice dragon, maybe, but ugh.

They never determine who ends up ruling at the end? Jon's just like 'you figure it out, I'm leaving'....

GRRM ends his novels on a 'oh no the WW are still out there' cliffhanger? That would almost certainly lead to an overwhelming demand for more books in the series? Granted, they could have tacked that on at the end for HBO's benefit....

Also, I don't think anything in there would really qualify as a third 'holy shit' moment....

[Edit: thinking about it more, I find it hard to reconcile with

Spoiler

Emilia Clarke's statement that there will be a major twist in episode 5. I don't think anything in the spoilers would qualify. It's mostly plausible and a lot of it will almost certainly happen, but none of it is extremely surprising, in comparison with episode 3 and episode 4.... One minor surprise would be if Arya kills Jamie in order to take his face, but I don't think that's enough....

[[Edit: Oh wait, I see you were referring to a *different* set of Reddit posts, which had accurate predictions about the previous episodes before they happened. That makes significantly different predictions from the more recent supposed leak and I stopped reading before the end because I find its track record convincing.]]]

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 10 May 2019 - 05:11 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

'Euron actor Pilou Asbæk wishes he were more like the supernatural, "Dark Lord" book Euron'

Lol....

https://www.reddit.c...%A6k_wishes_he/

[Gorefest]

We do too. At least book Euron could act.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

[Malankazooie]

A prophesy of an awakened stone dragon would be answer to super crossbow/dragon killing bolts. Maybe that's why Euron had that- 'oh shit!' - look on his face in the preview to tonight's episode? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[D'rek]

The Daenarys-as-Anakin memes are going to be amazing