[Gem Windcaster]

About Drogon - it makes sense to me that he on some level can't hurt Jon - call it genetics, or magic or whatever - but they're supposed to be related, right? So Drogon can't really hurt Jon - so it hurt the throne instead. Also I'm thinking the dragon might have some sort of genetic memory how the throne was made and kinda destroyed it because of that. But I might be way off. I'm unsure if the writers of the episode actually thought it through at all, or if it just was a visual choice. Someone should ask them.

[Gorefest]

Don't think it needs to be overthought too much. Drogon is pissed off, he cannot hurt Jon because of his Targaryen roots, so he just torches the room. The throne happens to be in the room and it melting looks cool and symbolic. I highly doubt Drogon targeted it purposefully to provide us as an audience with a moral methaphor. Drogon acts in-world, the symbolism is meta and deliberate but only on the writer's part, not Drogon's part.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Gem Windcaster, on 23 May 2019 - 01:57 PM, said:

About Drogon - it makes sense to me that he on some level can't hurt Jon - call it genetics, or magic or whatever - but they're supposed to be related, right? So Drogon can't really hurt Jon - so it hurt the throne instead. Also I'm thinking the dragon might have some sort of genetic memory how the throne was made and kinda destroyed it because of that. But I might be way off. I'm unsure if the writers of the episode actually thought it through at all, or if it just was a visual choice. Someone should ask them.

'Rhaenyra Targaryen was murdered by her brother, or rather, his dragon. It ate her while her son watched. Season 3 Touring the Great Sept of Baelor in King's Landing, King Joffrey Baratheon explains to Margaery Tyrell the fate of Rhaenyra Targaryen.' So even in the show, yes dragons can kill Targaeryans.

In the books there are many other examples. There may be more in the show as well.

[Edit: Apparently in The World of Ice and Fire, 'during the Dance there was a group of Targaryen bastards and distance relatives called the Dragon Seeds who would try to ride the “extra” or riderless Dragons and some of them were killed by those Dragons.'

https://qr.ae/TWNzdU

Any examples from Fire and Blood?...]

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 23 May 2019 - 03:01 PM

[champ]

Re Drogon, Bran warged into him to stop him killing Jon - easy answer. Maybe not correct but possible...

[Gem Windcaster]

I think the fact that Jon is Targaryen definitely plays into Drogon not killing him. A wish or order by one targaryen to kill another would most likely override their instinct to not kill one. Maybe the dragon's personality has something to do with it too.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Gem Windcaster, on 23 May 2019 - 03:43 PM, said:

I think the fact that Jon is Targaryen definitely plays into Drogon not killing him. A wish or order by one targaryen to kill another would most likely override their instinct to not kill one. Maybe the dragon's personality has something to do with it too.

Then what about the Targ bastards who were killed by riderless dragons? Jon isn't an incest baby so he has as much Targ blood as a first-generation bastard. Or do they magically care about whether his parents were married?...

[Abyss]

The whole Dany-is-fireproof thing suggests there is something magical to Tary blood, so it's not unthinkable that Drogon sensed 'something'.


We've also seen Drogon giving Jon weird looks while he was sucking face with Dany, and Jon did ride Drogon's brother a few times, so at the very least there's an intelligent animal acknowledgement thing there, possibly even accepting that Jon took out Alpha momma which makes him Alpha or something equally nature-based silly.

[Gem Windcaster]

Abyss, on 23 May 2019 - 04:33 PM, said:

The whole Dany-is-fireproof thing suggests there is something magical to Tary blood, so it's not unthinkable that Drogon sensed 'something'.


We've also seen Drogon giving Jon weird looks while he was sucking face with Dany, and Jon did ride Drogon's brother a few times, so at the very least there's an intelligent animal acknowledgement thing there, possibly even accepting that Jon took out Alpha momma which makes him Alpha or something equally nature-based silly.

Yeah, I'm thinking the dragons acknowledge hierarchical structures, and Drogon can probably sense Jon is the true Targaryen 'leader'. Something along those lines. And since they're magical, it wouldn't surprise me if their hierarchy is partly based on being 'worthy' or some such - but obviously 'worthy' in a dragon sense. Whatever that is. They're dragons.

This post has been edited by Gem Windcaster: 23 May 2019 - 04:58 PM

[nacht]

While this is never explained as such in the books and show, a good explanation is that Targaryens are basically Dragon Wargs (at a subconscious "bonding" level vs the more conscious warging in the north).

There is some mention in the book that a Dragon can sense its riders emotions an behave similarly

This would explain why some would be killed (either they can't warg or they are not good at it), and why a dragon might allow one rider at a time, and maybe even make a conscious decision to allow the warging.

And once Drogon sensed Dany's death, it likely felt a bonding with Jon.

This post has been edited by nacht: 23 May 2019 - 08:30 PM

[Gem Windcaster]

nacht, on 23 May 2019 - 08:23 PM, said:

While this is never explained as such in the books and show, a good explanation is that Targaryens are basically Dragon Wargs (at a subconscious "bonding" level vs the more conscious warging in the north).

There is some mention in the book that a Dragon can sense its riders emotions an behave similarly

This would explain why some would be killed (either they can't warg or they are not good at it), and why a dragon might allow one rider at a time, and maybe even make a conscious decision to allow the warging.

And once Drogon sensed Dany's death, it likely felt a bonding with Jon.

Yes, good point.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

nacht, on 23 May 2019 - 08:23 PM, said:

While this is never explained as such in the books and show, a good explanation is that Targaryens are basically Dragon Wargs (at a subconscious "bonding" level vs the more conscious warging in the north).

There is some mention in the book that a Dragon can sense its riders emotions an behave similarly

This would explain why some would be killed (either they can't warg or they are not good at it), and why a dragon might allow one rider at a time, and maybe even make a conscious decision to allow the warging.

And once Drogon sensed Dany's death, it likely felt a bonding with Jon.

Are there any instances of one Targ (or anyone for that matter) killing a dragonrider and then immediately being obeyed by the dragon?

[nacht]

Azath Vitr (D, on 23 May 2019 - 08:57 PM, said:

nacht, on 23 May 2019 - 08:23 PM, said:

While this is never explained as such in the books and show, a good explanation is that Targaryens are basically Dragon Wargs (at a subconscious "bonding" level vs the more conscious warging in the north).

There is some mention in the book that a Dragon can sense its riders emotions an behave similarly

This would explain why some would be killed (either they can't warg or they are not good at it), and why a dragon might allow one rider at a time, and maybe even make a conscious decision to allow the warging.

And once Drogon sensed Dany's death, it likely felt a bonding with Jon.

Are there any instances of one Targ (or anyone for that matter) killing a dragonrider and then immediately being obeyed by the dragon?

Maybe the pleasant emotions that Dany had when she was with Jon helped :-)

I have gone through half of "fFre and Blood" and haven't read any instance of that.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Lackluster Bachelorette, on 24 May 2019 - 01:28 AM, said:

Why are people still talking about this series? It was SO last week

I think I have PTSD.

Et ou Zizek a été

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

nacht, on 23 May 2019 - 08:23 PM, said:

While this is never explained as such in the books and show, a good explanation is that Targaryens are basically Dragon Wargs (at a subconscious "bonding" level vs the more conscious warging in the north).

There is some mention in the book that a Dragon can sense its riders emotions an behave similarly

This would explain why some would be killed (either they can't warg or they are not good at it), and why a dragon might allow one rider at a time, and maybe even make a conscious decision to allow the warging.

And once Drogon sensed Dany's death, it likely felt a bonding with Jon.

Can't remember specifically but I think there were a couple of times in Fire and Blood when dragon and rider were apart and the dragon "sensed" the rider's death.

Counterpoint though, there's also Balerion taking the princess to Valyria and it being recorded as assumedly by his own will and not the rider's - so they can disobey/do what they like as well. That seemed to be suggested to be down to the fact Balerion at that point was the oldest living thing in Westeros so had every right to be done with everyone's nonsense though

[Cause]

https://io9.gizmodo....f-wi-1834953464

All strike team members are on standby. If the book is not published by 2020 we have permission to kidnap him.

[Abyss]

Yah, nice try, i know how this goes...

Spoiler

[Merired]

Bran as a long-lived king opens the door for fun sequels with him being the God Emperor or Lord Ruler...

[worry]

I dunno about that. Bran is such a flake.

[Abyss]

Merired, on 24 May 2019 - 03:59 PM, said:

Bran as a long-lived king opens the door for fun sequels with him being the God Emperor or Lord Ruler...

True. After enough time he might even become a tree sandworm ascendent dragon Gandalf lich decent actor the breaker of the wheel Dany was aiming to be.

[Coltaine -]

I think Bran's predecessor only got that old by having a healthy weirwood diat and being part of a tree. But maybe they could plant a weirwood in the throne room of Kings Landing and install Bran into it. Lots of benefits. No need to get a new throne and Podrick never has to worry about forgetting him somewhere