[Khellendros]

Tapper, on 18 July 2018 - 09:48 AM, said:

Khellendros, on 18 July 2018 - 09:28 AM, said:

@ Tapper:

Okay, so: I'm going to invade Tequran-Torkan, destroy your ships and infantry and take the planets. Or on the other hand you pay me off. I would get 2TGs from the planets through scavenge, one of the planets is worth another two resources, and the other is worth a command token, or 3TGs. So I'm asking for 3TGs now (or your commodity and 2TGs), and your Trading Agreement PN, with a promise to refresh next round, even if you don't get a free refresh.

And your guarantee if I do pay you off, is?

If I don't live up to not attacking you, then no one else will do a deal with me. So I pinky swear not to invade (and I mean next round either, not just this).

[Gnaw]

Tapper, on 18 July 2018 - 09:48 AM, said:

Khellendros, on 18 July 2018 - 09:28 AM, said:

@ Tapper:

Okay, so: I'm going to invade Tequran-Torkan, destroy your ships and infantry and take the planets. Or on the other hand you pay me off. I would get 2TGs from the planets through scavenge, one of the planets is worth another two resources, and the other is worth a command token, or 3TGs. So I'm asking for 3TGs now (or your commodity and 2TGs), and your Trading Agreement PN, with a promise to refresh next round, even if you don't get a free refresh.

And your guarantee if I do pay you off, is?

His ceasefire at the least?

[Khellendros]

Gnaw, on 18 July 2018 - 09:52 AM, said:

Tapper, on 18 July 2018 - 09:48 AM, said:

Khellendros, on 18 July 2018 - 09:28 AM, said:

@ Tapper:

Okay, so: I'm going to invade Tequran-Torkan, destroy your ships and infantry and take the planets. Or on the other hand you pay me off. I would get 2TGs from the planets through scavenge, one of the planets is worth another two resources, and the other is worth a command token, or 3TGs. So I'm asking for 3TGs now (or your commodity and 2TGs), and your Trading Agreement PN, with a promise to refresh next round, even if you don't get a free refresh.

And your guarantee if I do pay you off, is?

His ceasefire at the least?

Gave it to Nom.

[Gnaw]

Tapper, remember the words of the immortal Lazarus Long: a man who won’t be blackmailed can’t be blackmailed.

[Itwæs Nom]

Itwæs Nom, on 18 July 2018 - 09:44 AM, said:

Gnaw, on 18 July 2018 - 09:43 AM, said:

Khellendros, on 18 July 2018 - 09:28 AM, said:

@ Tapper:

Okay, so: I'm going to invade Tequran-Torkan, destroy your ships and infantry and take the planets. Or on the other hand you pay me off. I would get 2TGs from the planets through scavenge, one of the planets is worth another two resources, and the other is worth a command token, or 3TGs. So I'm asking for 3TGs now (or your commodity and 2TGs), and your Trading Agreement PN, with a promise to refresh next round, even if you don't get a free refresh.

As I said, lots more blood this game.

Speaking about blood...

Good sir?

I take it promise not to pillage you once we become neighbours won't suffice?

[Tapper]

Okay. So your proposal is that I pay you 7 TG plus a CT, or your Dread + Fighter, Cruiser, Carrier and 4 Infantry come party.

Unfortunately, those 7 TG you demand are probably worth 10-11 TG to me: keeping my 3, a new refresh for 4, plus selling my Trade Agreement.

On top of that, considering how I will continue to throw everything and the kitchen sink at that system until I beat you, you will either

A) keep it for a very short time, in which case any losses you make in getting T//T not being earned back;

sit on it, for ever rising costs, as all that you leave me to this game is fight you and make your life miserable. For the first couple of turns, we will still be fairly balanced: Vefut and Jord give me 6 production to your 7.

C. Of course, you could also press on - but then D'rek or ItwaesBliss might try and lock you up in turn, and fighting me is going to cost you.

As such: bring it on.

[Khellendros]

Tapper, on 18 July 2018 - 10:16 AM, said:

Okay. So your proposal is that I pay you 7 TG plus a CT, or your Dread + Fighter, Cruiser, Carrier and 4 Infantry come party.

Unfortunately, those 7 TG you demand are probably worth 10-11 TG to me: keeping my 3, a new refresh for 4, plus selling my Trade Agreement.

On top of that, considering how I will continue to throw everything and the kitchen sink at that system until I beat you, you will either

A) keep it for a very short time, in which case any losses you make in getting T//T not being earned back;

sit on it, for ever rising costs, as all that you leave me to this game is fight you and make your life miserable. For the first couple of turns, we will still be fairly balanced: Vefut and Jord give me 6 production to your 7.

C. Of course, you could also press on - but then D'rek or ItwaesBliss might try and lock you up in turn, and fighting me is going to cost you.

As such: bring it on.

I would never have intended to keep the system for very long at all. I had hoped at the start of this round to get there before you, and then leave and let you have it, but with your picking up Warfare and Nom wanting me to go to Wellon first things didn't work out that way.

I have 7 Infantry, not 4. Are you sure you don't want to reconsider? This is me learning from Mallice last game and that aggression is not always the best policy. Yet I think that this is how I have to play Saar, at least in the early game.

You say they're worth 10-11TG to you. Well, keeping your Carrier, Destroyer, Fighter, and 4 infantry is 8TG right there.

[Morgoth]

Fight fight!

[Tapper]

Khellendros, on 18 July 2018 - 10:25 AM, said:

Tapper, on 18 July 2018 - 10:16 AM, said:

Okay. So your proposal is that I pay you 7 TG plus a CT, or your Dread + Fighter, Cruiser, Carrier and 4 Infantry come party.

Unfortunately, those 7 TG you demand are probably worth 10-11 TG to me: keeping my 3, a new refresh for 4, plus selling my Trade Agreement.

On top of that, considering how I will continue to throw everything and the kitchen sink at that system until I beat you, you will either

A) keep it for a very short time, in which case any losses you make in getting T//T not being earned back;

sit on it, for ever rising costs, as all that you leave me to this game is fight you and make your life miserable. For the first couple of turns, we will still be fairly balanced: Vefut and Jord give me 6 production to your 7.

C. Of course, you could also press on - but then D'rek or ItwaesBliss might try and lock you up in turn, and fighting me is going to cost you.

As such: bring it on.

I would never have intended to keep the system for very long at all.

In which case, it is not worth paying you 7 TG for, plus perhaps a CT, hmm?

Quote

I had hoped at the start of this round to get there before you, and then leave and let you have it, but with your picking up Warfare and Nom wanting me to go to Wellon first things didn't work out that way.

Sure.

Quote

I have 7 Infantry, not 4.

If you move your dock in, yes.

Quote

Are you sure you don't want to reconsider? This is me learning from Mallice last game and that aggression is not always the best policy.

Khell, whether I accept or not, your move is aggressive and it [b/b]is going to cripple my game. If you wanted me to buy you off, you should have asked for a minor bribe to line your pocket, not a multi-turn mortgage.

Quote

Yet I think that this is how I have to play Saar, at least in the early game.

Well, that's your PoV

Quote

You say they're worth 10-11TG to you. Well, keeping your Carrier, Destroyer, Fighter, and 4 infantry is 8TG right there.

And they're worth zilch if I pay you what amounts to a cruiser fleet.

Basically, Khell, you asked me to reconsider. If one of us needs to reconsider, it is you: reconsider your demands.

[Morgoth]

See Tapper, this is what it’s like having Khell as a neighbour

[Khellendros]

Tapper, on 18 July 2018 - 10:44 AM, said:

Khellendros, on 18 July 2018 - 10:25 AM, said:

Tapper, on 18 July 2018 - 10:16 AM, said:

Okay. So your proposal is that I pay you 7 TG plus a CT, or your Dread + Fighter, Cruiser, Carrier and 4 Infantry come party.

Unfortunately, those 7 TG you demand are probably worth 10-11 TG to me: keeping my 3, a new refresh for 4, plus selling my Trade Agreement.

On top of that, considering how I will continue to throw everything and the kitchen sink at that system until I beat you, you will either

A) keep it for a very short time, in which case any losses you make in getting T//T not being earned back;

sit on it, for ever rising costs, as all that you leave me to this game is fight you and make your life miserable. For the first couple of turns, we will still be fairly balanced: Vefut and Jord give me 6 production to your 7.

C. Of course, you could also press on - but then D'rek or ItwaesBliss might try and lock you up in turn, and fighting me is going to cost you.

As such: bring it on.

I would never have intended to keep the system for very long at all.

In which case, it is not worth paying you 7 TG for, plus perhaps a CT, hmm?

Quote

I had hoped at the start of this round to get there before you, and then leave and let you have it, but with your picking up Warfare and Nom wanting me to go to Wellon first things didn't work out that way.

Sure.

Quote

I have 7 Infantry, not 4.

If you move your dock in, yes.

Quote

Are you sure you don't want to reconsider? This is me learning from Mallice last game and that aggression is not always the best policy.

Khell, whether I accept or not, your move is aggressive and it [b/b]is going to cripple my game. If you wanted me to buy you off, you should have asked for a minor bribe to line your pocket, not a multi-turn mortgage.

Quote

Yet I think that this is how I have to play Saar, at least in the early game.

Well, that's your PoV

Quote

You say they're worth 10-11TG to you. Well, keeping your Carrier, Destroyer, Fighter, and 4 infantry is 8TG right there.

And they're worth zilch if I pay you what amounts to a cruiser fleet.

Basically, Khell, you asked me to reconsider. If one of us needs to reconsider, it is you: reconsider your demands.

Well, in fact I had hoped you'd consider negotiating to something lower rather than saying 'bring it on', but instead that's what you said. If you want to put forward a different offer, I'm happy to listen but that ball is in your court, not mine. I don't want to cripple your game, but neither do I want to weaken mine.

[Itwæs Nom]

Khellendros, on 18 July 2018 - 10:57 AM, said:

I don't want to cripple your game

Only Ragh knows what would happen if you did

This post has been edited by Itwæs Nom: 18 July 2018 - 11:03 AM

[Gnaw]

Morgoth, on 18 July 2018 - 10:33 AM, said:

Fight fight!

[Tattersail_]

Gnaw, on 18 July 2018 - 11:11 AM, said:

Morgoth, on 18 July 2018 - 10:33 AM, said:

Fight fight!

Are you passing or taking a turn?

D'rek Passed, I am going to pass.

[Tattersail_]

@Tapper

After Gnaw's turn it is back round to you.

[Tapper]

Khellendros, on 18 July 2018 - 10:57 AM, said:

Tapper, on 18 July 2018 - 10:44 AM, said:

Khellendros, on 18 July 2018 - 10:25 AM, said:

Tapper, on 18 July 2018 - 10:16 AM, said:

Okay. So your proposal is that I pay you 7 TG plus a CT, or your Dread + Fighter, Cruiser, Carrier and 4 Infantry come party.

Unfortunately, those 7 TG you demand are probably worth 10-11 TG to me: keeping my 3, a new refresh for 4, plus selling my Trade Agreement.

On top of that, considering how I will continue to throw everything and the kitchen sink at that system until I beat you, you will either

A) keep it for a very short time, in which case any losses you make in getting T//T not being earned back;

sit on it, for ever rising costs, as all that you leave me to this game is fight you and make your life miserable. For the first couple of turns, we will still be fairly balanced: Vefut and Jord give me 6 production to your 7.

C. Of course, you could also press on - but then D'rek or ItwaesBliss might try and lock you up in turn, and fighting me is going to cost you.

As such: bring it on.

I would never have intended to keep the system for very long at all.

In which case, it is not worth paying you 7 TG for, plus perhaps a CT, hmm?

Quote

I had hoped at the start of this round to get there before you, and then leave and let you have it, but with your picking up Warfare and Nom wanting me to go to Wellon first things didn't work out that way.

Sure.

Quote

I have 7 Infantry, not 4.

If you move your dock in, yes.

Quote

Are you sure you don't want to reconsider? This is me learning from Mallice last game and that aggression is not always the best policy.

Khell, whether I accept or not, your move is aggressive and it [b/b]is going to cripple my game. If you wanted me to buy you off, you should have asked for a minor bribe to line your pocket, not a multi-turn mortgage.

Quote

Yet I think that this is how I have to play Saar, at least in the early game.

Well, that's your PoV

Quote

You say they're worth 10-11TG to you. Well, keeping your Carrier, Destroyer, Fighter, and 4 infantry is 8TG right there.

And they're worth zilch if I pay you what amounts to a cruiser fleet.

Basically, Khell, you asked me to reconsider. If one of us needs to reconsider, it is you: reconsider your demands.

Well, in fact I had hoped you'd consider negotiating to something lower rather than saying 'bring it on', but instead that's what you said. If you want to put forward a different offer, I'm happy to listen but that ball is in your court, not mine. I don't want to cripple your game, but neither do I want to weaken mine.

3 TG, 1 now, 1 each over the next 2 turns after refresh so I know you honor the deal. We can also continue to trade 2:2 commodities as we did this turn. (because if we go to war, it is in no-one's interest to allow you to win easily, so I'd expect at the least 1 of gnaw or Tatts to be less eager to trade with you).

You get half of what you demand without a fight, paid out over time. You can now make a move for the center.

Alternatively, my Ceasefire PN, start of next turn, with the explicit understanding from my side that you can sell it.

[Khellendros]

Tapper, on 18 July 2018 - 11:15 AM, said:

Khellendros, on 18 July 2018 - 10:57 AM, said:

Tapper, on 18 July 2018 - 10:44 AM, said:

Khellendros, on 18 July 2018 - 10:25 AM, said:

Tapper, on 18 July 2018 - 10:16 AM, said:

Okay. So your proposal is that I pay you 7 TG plus a CT, or your Dread + Fighter, Cruiser, Carrier and 4 Infantry come party.

Unfortunately, those 7 TG you demand are probably worth 10-11 TG to me: keeping my 3, a new refresh for 4, plus selling my Trade Agreement.

On top of that, considering how I will continue to throw everything and the kitchen sink at that system until I beat you, you will either

A) keep it for a very short time, in which case any losses you make in getting T//T not being earned back;

sit on it, for ever rising costs, as all that you leave me to this game is fight you and make your life miserable. For the first couple of turns, we will still be fairly balanced: Vefut and Jord give me 6 production to your 7.

C. Of course, you could also press on - but then D'rek or ItwaesBliss might try and lock you up in turn, and fighting me is going to cost you.

As such: bring it on.

I would never have intended to keep the system for very long at all.

In which case, it is not worth paying you 7 TG for, plus perhaps a CT, hmm?

Quote

I had hoped at the start of this round to get there before you, and then leave and let you have it, but with your picking up Warfare and Nom wanting me to go to Wellon first things didn't work out that way.

Sure.

Quote

I have 7 Infantry, not 4.

If you move your dock in, yes.

Quote

Are you sure you don't want to reconsider? This is me learning from Mallice last game and that aggression is not always the best policy.

Khell, whether I accept or not, your move is aggressive and it [b/b]is going to cripple my game. If you wanted me to buy you off, you should have asked for a minor bribe to line your pocket, not a multi-turn mortgage.

Quote

Yet I think that this is how I have to play Saar, at least in the early game.

Well, that's your PoV

Quote

You say they're worth 10-11TG to you. Well, keeping your Carrier, Destroyer, Fighter, and 4 infantry is 8TG right there.

And they're worth zilch if I pay you what amounts to a cruiser fleet.

Basically, Khell, you asked me to reconsider. If one of us needs to reconsider, it is you: reconsider your demands.

Well, in fact I had hoped you'd consider negotiating to something lower rather than saying 'bring it on', but instead that's what you said. If you want to put forward a different offer, I'm happy to listen but that ball is in your court, not mine. I don't want to cripple your game, but neither do I want to weaken mine.

3 TG, 1 now, 1 each over the next 2 turns after refresh so I know you honor the deal. We can also continue to trade 2:2 commodities as we did this turn. (because if we go to war, it is in no-one's interest to allow you to win easily, so I'd expect at the least 1 of gnaw or Tatts to be less eager to trade with you).

You get half of what you demand without a fight, paid out over time. You can now make a move for the center.

Alternatively, my Ceasefire PN, start of next turn, with the explicit understanding from my side that you can sell it.

3 is less than half of 7

I would normally expect 2TG now, as that would be what I get through Scavenge. Plus there's no guarantee you'll be able to refresh for two consecutive rounds (I'm assuming you won't if you don't get a free one). I also assume we're pricing the Ceasefire at 3TGs.

So the Ceasefire PN and 1TG when you refresh (rather than now, as you still seem to think I'll attack you even after the deal is agreed). And I will not look to sell your Ceasefire on elsewhere.

[Tattersail_]

Khellendros, on 18 July 2018 - 11:44 AM, said:

Tapper, on 18 July 2018 - 11:15 AM, said:

Khellendros, on 18 July 2018 - 10:57 AM, said:

Tapper, on 18 July 2018 - 10:44 AM, said:

Khellendros, on 18 July 2018 - 10:25 AM, said:

Tapper, on 18 July 2018 - 10:16 AM, said:

Okay. So your proposal is that I pay you 7 TG plus a CT, or your Dread + Fighter, Cruiser, Carrier and 4 Infantry come party.

Unfortunately, those 7 TG you demand are probably worth 10-11 TG to me: keeping my 3, a new refresh for 4, plus selling my Trade Agreement.

On top of that, considering how I will continue to throw everything and the kitchen sink at that system until I beat you, you will either

A) keep it for a very short time, in which case any losses you make in getting T//T not being earned back;

sit on it, for ever rising costs, as all that you leave me to this game is fight you and make your life miserable. For the first couple of turns, we will still be fairly balanced: Vefut and Jord give me 6 production to your 7.

C. Of course, you could also press on - but then D'rek or ItwaesBliss might try and lock you up in turn, and fighting me is going to cost you.

As such: bring it on.

I would never have intended to keep the system for very long at all.

In which case, it is not worth paying you 7 TG for, plus perhaps a CT, hmm?

Quote

I had hoped at the start of this round to get there before you, and then leave and let you have it, but with your picking up Warfare and Nom wanting me to go to Wellon first things didn't work out that way.

Sure.

Quote

I have 7 Infantry, not 4.

If you move your dock in, yes.

Quote

Are you sure you don't want to reconsider? This is me learning from Mallice last game and that aggression is not always the best policy.

Khell, whether I accept or not, your move is aggressive and it [b/b]is going to cripple my game. If you wanted me to buy you off, you should have asked for a minor bribe to line your pocket, not a multi-turn mortgage.

Quote

Yet I think that this is how I have to play Saar, at least in the early game.

Well, that's your PoV

Quote

You say they're worth 10-11TG to you. Well, keeping your Carrier, Destroyer, Fighter, and 4 infantry is 8TG right there.

And they're worth zilch if I pay you what amounts to a cruiser fleet.

Basically, Khell, you asked me to reconsider. If one of us needs to reconsider, it is you: reconsider your demands.

Well, in fact I had hoped you'd consider negotiating to something lower rather than saying 'bring it on', but instead that's what you said. If you want to put forward a different offer, I'm happy to listen but that ball is in your court, not mine. I don't want to cripple your game, but neither do I want to weaken mine.

3 TG, 1 now, 1 each over the next 2 turns after refresh so I know you honor the deal. We can also continue to trade 2:2 commodities as we did this turn. (because if we go to war, it is in no-one's interest to allow you to win easily, so I'd expect at the least 1 of gnaw or Tatts to be less eager to trade with you).

You get half of what you demand without a fight, paid out over time. You can now make a move for the center.

Alternatively, my Ceasefire PN, start of next turn, with the explicit understanding from my side that you can sell it.

3 is less than half of 7

I would normally expect 2TG now, as that would be what I get through Scavenge. Plus there's no guarantee you'll be able to refresh for two consecutive rounds (I'm assuming you won't if you don't get a free one). I also assume we're pricing the Ceasefire at 3TGs.

So the Ceasefire PN and 1TG when you refresh (rather than now, as you still seem to think I'll attack you even after the deal is agreed). And I will not look to sell your Ceasefire on elsewhere.

The underlined conflict.

[Khellendros]

Tattersail_, on 18 July 2018 - 11:51 AM, said:

Khellendros, on 18 July 2018 - 11:44 AM, said:

Tapper, on 18 July 2018 - 11:15 AM, said:

Khellendros, on 18 July 2018 - 10:57 AM, said:

Tapper, on 18 July 2018 - 10:44 AM, said:

Khellendros, on 18 July 2018 - 10:25 AM, said:

Tapper, on 18 July 2018 - 10:16 AM, said:

Okay. So your proposal is that I pay you 7 TG plus a CT, or your Dread + Fighter, Cruiser, Carrier and 4 Infantry come party.

Unfortunately, those 7 TG you demand are probably worth 10-11 TG to me: keeping my 3, a new refresh for 4, plus selling my Trade Agreement.

On top of that, considering how I will continue to throw everything and the kitchen sink at that system until I beat you, you will either

A) keep it for a very short time, in which case any losses you make in getting T//T not being earned back;

sit on it, for ever rising costs, as all that you leave me to this game is fight you and make your life miserable. For the first couple of turns, we will still be fairly balanced: Vefut and Jord give me 6 production to your 7.

C. Of course, you could also press on - but then D'rek or ItwaesBliss might try and lock you up in turn, and fighting me is going to cost you.

As such: bring it on.

I would never have intended to keep the system for very long at all.

In which case, it is not worth paying you 7 TG for, plus perhaps a CT, hmm?

Quote

I had hoped at the start of this round to get there before you, and then leave and let you have it, but with your picking up Warfare and Nom wanting me to go to Wellon first things didn't work out that way.

Sure.

Quote

I have 7 Infantry, not 4.

If you move your dock in, yes.

Quote

Are you sure you don't want to reconsider? This is me learning from Mallice last game and that aggression is not always the best policy.

Khell, whether I accept or not, your move is aggressive and it [b/b]is going to cripple my game. If you wanted me to buy you off, you should have asked for a minor bribe to line your pocket, not a multi-turn mortgage.

Quote

Yet I think that this is how I have to play Saar, at least in the early game.

Well, that's your PoV

Quote

You say they're worth 10-11TG to you. Well, keeping your Carrier, Destroyer, Fighter, and 4 infantry is 8TG right there.

And they're worth zilch if I pay you what amounts to a cruiser fleet.

Basically, Khell, you asked me to reconsider. If one of us needs to reconsider, it is you: reconsider your demands.

Well, in fact I had hoped you'd consider negotiating to something lower rather than saying 'bring it on', but instead that's what you said. If you want to put forward a different offer, I'm happy to listen but that ball is in your court, not mine. I don't want to cripple your game, but neither do I want to weaken mine.

3 TG, 1 now, 1 each over the next 2 turns after refresh so I know you honor the deal. We can also continue to trade 2:2 commodities as we did this turn. (because if we go to war, it is in no-one's interest to allow you to win easily, so I'd expect at the least 1 of gnaw or Tatts to be less eager to trade with you).

You get half of what you demand without a fight, paid out over time. You can now make a move for the center.

Alternatively, my Ceasefire PN, start of next turn, with the explicit understanding from my side that you can sell it.

3 is less than half of 7

I would normally expect 2TG now, as that would be what I get through Scavenge. Plus there's no guarantee you'll be able to refresh for two consecutive rounds (I'm assuming you won't if you don't get a free one). I also assume we're pricing the Ceasefire at 3TGs.

So the Ceasefire PN and 1TG when you refresh (rather than now, as you still seem to think I'll attack you even after the deal is agreed). And I will not look to sell your Ceasefire on elsewhere.

The underlined conflict.

That's not a conflict, Tatts. That's me saying I won't sell it to someone who wants to prevent Tapper from attacking them.

[Tapper]

3+1 from moving to Herrah (or, if you gamble, Centauri/Gral) is more than half of 7.
In addition, it gives you dibs on Tura Nora if you are so inclined.