[Tsundoku]

Team Sith 4 eva!

https://futurism.com...r-wars-science/

I love these two sites:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/

https://futurism.com/

To kick things off - are you pro using animals to grow human parts for transplants? Against? Pro, but with reservations/restrictions?

https://futurism.com...-hybrid-embryo/

I'm personally quite pro the whole thing. We already eat animals and use them for a whole bunch of things, so why not? It's not much of a further step, just an extra product really.

Obviously subject to the same oversight to be as humane as possible and so we don't produce any sorts of fucked-up chimaeras. Which of course some will, because someone always does. An unfortunate side effect of general progress.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 25 February 2018 - 12:02 AM

[Maark Abbott]

Tsundoku, on 24 February 2018 - 11:52 PM, said:

To kick things off - are you pro using animals to grow human parts for transplants? Against? Pro, but with reservations/restrictions?

https://futurism.com...-hybrid-embryo/

I'm personally quite pro the whole thing. We already eat animals and use them for a whole bunch of things, so why not? It's not much of a further step, just an extra product really.

Obviously subject to the same oversight to be as humane as possible and so we don't produce any sorts of fucked-up chimaeras. Which of course some will, because someone always does. An unfortunate side effect of general progress.

I kind of feel like people will be like a dog and bone with this one. Especially those with daughters.

[Tsundoku]

Sorry, not quite following. Why would those with daughters be extra zealous?

[Cause]

I'm a firm believer that 'ethics' is one of the primary impediments faced bys ciecne. People who misunderstand ethics, who misunderstand the science and who for some bizzare reason believe scientists are sadists who want to torture animals or what have you can create a whole lot of stink about nothing.

The anti vax movement, the anti GMO movement spring to mind.

Yes of course you should need and receive training in how to look after animals if you work with them. I guarantee most such projects will include full time animal technicians, handlers etc even full time vets for this purpose. I'm pretty much pro all science.

[Mezla PigDog]

I dunno Cause. Isn't it important for all angles to be examined to get ethical approval for radical experiments? Progress for the sake of it isn't always a good thing. Or at least you have to have thought about the long term consequences before deciding to go ahead with hybrid / stem cell stuff etc. Just because the anit-vax and anti-GMO movements are misinformed doesn't mean ethics is wrong. People who work long term doing experiments on animals get desensitized to it - I was using some rat blood as a side product of some animal experiments in my old research unit years ago. I had to go on the animal unit when they euthanized the rats and harvested all of their blood and lungs for experiments. I wasn't allowed to do anything with live animals as I didn't have a license so was stood at the end of a production line of rat blood and lungs. It was weird. I would not want to do that every day and I can guarantee that the people doing the experiments rarely thought about the welfare of the animals. They had rules that they had to follow due to UK law and their licenses but they were doing it as part of the day-to-day humdrum of their jobs rather than they really thought the welfare of the animals. I wouldn't want to be involved in animal experiments again and I wonder about the people that do, especially for bigger animals. Saying that I'll take all medicines and medical innovation offered to me without questioning the animals that were involved so I'm a hypocrite.

For animals growing human organs - we already use pig heart valves and other animal tissues in medical devices. It's not that different from what already goes on. The pigs are genetically engineered to not have various immunological bits on their tissues to reduce the chance of rejection. If I was dying I'd take a pig valve in a jiffy.

[Cause]

Its my belief and experience that people don't get funding big funding for research for the sake of it. The kind of funding required for stem cell research, animal cloning etc generally requires a well thought out plan that includes an ethical component. Animals will die, but I eat steak every day. I'm not saying ethics must not be considered I am saying most univerisities or research labs have these covered. When PETA or church groups get involved and speak about ethics they are really just advocating their beliefs.

The animal technicians are just following the guide lines. but those guidelines do exist. No different from the people who slaughter cows.

Chruch groups who believe that embryos are possible humans or that stem cell research is playing god are crazy. PETA who wants to end all animal testing are simply hypocrytes especially as their leader takes insulin.

If my work is successful many anonymouses will die for my experiments. It is however the only way to create and test antibodies against ebola in large numbers. the ethics of himan lives vs mouse lives does not even phase me.

[Gorefest]

Mezla PigDog, on 01 March 2018 - 01:51 PM, said:

People who work long term doing experiments on animals get desensitized to it - I was using some rat blood as a side product of some animal experiments in my old research unit years ago. I had to go on the animal unit when they euthanized the rats and harvested all of their blood and lungs for experiments. I wasn't allowed to do anything with live animals as I didn't have a license so was stood at the end of a production line of rat blood and lungs. It was weird. I would not want to do that every day and I can guarantee that the people doing the experiments rarely thought about the welfare of the animals. They had rules that they had to follow due to UK law and their licenses but they were doing it as part of the day-to-day humdrum of their jobs rather than they really thought the welfare of the animals.

Sorry to hear that. I do quite a lot of work using animal models (mice) and I am the Departmental technical hub lead for animal models. In our Department we predominantly use mice, rats and zebrafish, but sometimes also rabbits and even pigs. Obviously I cannot speak for all workers in the UK or the wider world, but I can say with hand on heart that animal welfare is extremely important to our (local) way of working. The mentality you describe above may exist in places, but if we encounter this with our academics or students we step in and report it. All our animals get dedicated daily care from qualified animal carers, there is a veterinary nurse on call 7 days per week, we are in close contact with our local NC3Rs (national institute for animal welfare) coordinator, and all our projects are reviewed by an ethical committee to decide whether the proposed work is justified balanced against potential animal discomfort/harm. My personal opinion is that no matter how long you have worked in animal research, as soon as you lose empathy with the animal you should stop doing it.

[Maark Abbott]

Gorefest, on 01 March 2018 - 03:58 PM, said:

Mezla PigDog, on 01 March 2018 - 01:51 PM, said:

People who work long term doing experiments on animals get desensitized to it - I was using some rat blood as a side product of some animal experiments in my old research unit years ago. I had to go on the animal unit when they euthanized the rats and harvested all of their blood and lungs for experiments. I wasn't allowed to do anything with live animals as I didn't have a license so was stood at the end of a production line of rat blood and lungs. It was weird. I would not want to do that every day and I can guarantee that the people doing the experiments rarely thought about the welfare of the animals. They had rules that they had to follow due to UK law and their licenses but they were doing it as part of the day-to-day humdrum of their jobs rather than they really thought the welfare of the animals.

Sorry to hear that. I do quite a lot of work using animal models (mice) and I am the Departmental technical hub lead for animal models. In our Department we predominantly use mice, rats and zebrafish, but sometimes also rabbits and even pigs. Obviously I cannot speak for all workers in the UK or the wider world, but I can say with hand on heart that animal welfare is extremely important to our (local) way of working. The mentality you describe above may exist in places, but if we encounter this with our academics or students we step in and report it. All our animals get dedicated daily care from qualified animal carers, there is a veterinary nurse on call 7 days per week, we are in close contact with our local NC3Rs (national institute for animal welfare) coordinator, and all our projects are reviewed by an ethical committee to decide whether the proposed work is justified balanced against potential animal discomfort/harm. My personal opinion is that no matter how long you have worked in animal research, as soon as you lose empathy with the animal you should stop doing it.

Slightly OT but are you based at the SHU?

[Gorefest]

No, UoS. Don't think Hallam have an animal unit.

[Maark Abbott]

Gorefest, on 07 March 2018 - 04:07 PM, said:

No, UoS. Don't think Hallam have an animal unit.

Ah, fair enough, still going to be pretty close by though. Based on Millsands here.

[Gorefest]

Near the visa and immigration place? Should I worry?

[stone monkey]

I think Peter Watts should come with some sort of mental health warning attached. Either that or we should all be really scared if he decides to become an Evil Genius one day.

[Maark Abbott]

Gorefest, on 08 March 2018 - 10:46 AM, said:

Near the visa and immigration place? Should I worry?

Only if you crash into one of my clients on the road matey.

[worry]

Astronaut’s DNA No Longer Matches His Identical Twin’s After Year Spent in Space, NASA Finds
LINK
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[Tsundoku]

Looks like Silicon Valley is where we are going to get a real-life version of Peter F Hamilton's various life-extending tech from his stories or something similar.

https://futurism.com...-silicon-valley

What's that book where uber rich immortals are called evergreens and the rest live normal lives and are called mayflies? Or am I conflating multiple plots? Reminds me a bit of Altered carbon too.

Anyhoo - consequences? From the short to long term? The consequences of varying degrees of success, I mean.
Actually, the consequences of simply the quest as well.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 28 October 2018 - 08:08 AM

[Tsundoku]

Oh goodie. Deepfake technology is getting too good to detect.

Thanks for ruining chatroulette guys. Now the AIs don't have to kill us, they can catfish us out of our money.

https://www.news.com...d67b82566f8b421

This Person Does Not Exist. Every time you refresh the page, it's a new AI-generated image. Some look a little off, but so far most look real to me. Sheesh.

https://thispersondoesnotexist.com/

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

Tsundoku, on 22 March 2019 - 09:32 PM, said:

Oh goodie. Deepfake technology is getting too good to detect.

Thanks for ruining chatroulette guys. Now the AIs don't have to kill us, they can catfish us out of our money.

https://www.news.com...d67b82566f8b421

This Person Does Not Exist. Every time you refresh the page, it's a new AI-generated image. Some look a little off, but so far most look real to me. Sheesh.

https://thispersondoesnotexist.com/

One of the captions in that News.com.au article:
"The technology can even create realistic pictures of children."

As if children are different than people...and won't you think of the non-existent children???

This post has been edited by Whisperzzzzzzz: 22 March 2019 - 10:45 PM

[worry]

At least we've learned a little about how Tsundoku spends his money.

[Tsundoku]

worry, on 22 March 2019 - 10:53 PM, said:

At least we've learned a little about how Tsundoku spends his money.

Wait ... so that's not you on the other end?

[Tsundoku]

Well, shit. Skynet is now that one step closer.

https://www.news.com...a01babdee1ad679