[Cause]

Silencer, on 25 December 2016 - 06:42 AM, said:

Whisperzzzzzzz, on 25 December 2016 - 06:14 AM, said:

Briar King, on 25 December 2016 - 01:19 AM, said:

This is one of the reasons I really need to rewatch. Did the

Spoiler

Mon Cal crew say anything about making an escape or suicide? That's a large load of POWs that could talk about Yavin under torture, but the timeline from RO to ANH is prob just a few hrs/day long gap so they could prob just shrug their shoulders at that plot hole. Maybe the DVD will address this in the features cause it's def a hmmmm moment having to track MF to Yavin with an entire crew of POWs.

The people on the planet

Spoiler

all died. There were no POWs.

I think BK meant

Spoiler

The crew on the disabled Rebel flagship that Vader boarded - there's presumably a whole bunch of Rebels on that ship, who could have been taken alive and therefore talked about the base on Yavin IV they left from.
It's a plot hole because unless everyone on that ship dies or resists interrogation, finding the location of the Rebel base in A New Hope shouldn't have relied on Leia or the tracking beacon on the Falcon at all.
Personally I just assumed all the crew died, or otherwise refused to talk like Leia and Poe... Don't think Imperial torture has a good track record in this series honestly. XD

Spoiler

Its possible, if we have to, to explain away. It might be that the vast majority of rebel fighters, crew don't know the location of the planet. In a galaxy of thousands upon thousands of planets it wont mean much to walk on the surface of a planet and actually know where it is. Even the name Yavin IV might not necessarily be a name found in some official registry of planests with its co-ordinates. In TFA awakens when they get a piece of the galatic map (which shows thousands of starts) the rebel alliance still seems to not be able to pin point that sector of space (that too me is the larger plothole).

[QuickTidal]

Cause, on 25 December 2016 - 10:34 AM, said:

Silencer, on 25 December 2016 - 06:42 AM, said:

Whisperzzzzzzz, on 25 December 2016 - 06:14 AM, said:

Briar King, on 25 December 2016 - 01:19 AM, said:

This is one of the reasons I really need to rewatch. Did the

Spoiler

Mon Cal crew say anything about making an escape or suicide? That's a large load of POWs that could talk about Yavin under torture, but the timeline from RO to ANH is prob just a few hrs/day long gap so they could prob just shrug their shoulders at that plot hole. Maybe the DVD will address this in the features cause it's def a hmmmm moment having to track MF to Yavin with an entire crew of POWs.

The people on the planet

Spoiler

all died. There were no POWs.

I think BK meant

Spoiler

The crew on the disabled Rebel flagship that Vader boarded - there's presumably a whole bunch of Rebels on that ship, who could have been taken alive and therefore talked about the base on Yavin IV they left from.
It's a plot hole because unless everyone on that ship dies or resists interrogation, finding the location of the Rebel base in A New Hope shouldn't have relied on Leia or the tracking beacon on the Falcon at all.
Personally I just assumed all the crew died, or otherwise refused to talk like Leia and Poe... Don't think Imperial torture has a good track record in this series honestly. XD

Spoiler

Its possible, if we have to, to explain away. It might be that the vast majority of rebel fighters, crew don't know the location of the planet. In a galaxy of thousands upon thousands of planets it wont mean much to walk on the surface of a planet and actually know where it is. Even the name Yavin IV might not necessarily be a name found in some official registry of planests with its co-ordinates. In TFA awakens when they get a piece of the galatic map (which shows thousands of starts) the rebel alliance still seems to not be able to pin point that sector of space (that too me is the larger plothole).

The map in TFA shows worlds which had Jedi temples marked on them. They weren't trying to find a sector of space....they were trying to find the first Jedi temple and which world it was on...which is a needle in a haystack without the map portion Poe had been given...as the maps of all those temples (which would have been available only to the old Republic....were in the hands of the Emperor and no one else after Order 66). So not remotely a plothole.

[Cause]

We dont even live a thousand years in the future with hyperspace ships and we have mapped the location of thousands of starts in known space. How they cant locate a map of thousands of stars of their star charts is odd. It would be the equivalent of a modern day sailor not being able to recognize the coastline of Australia.

[Cause]

Unless I remeber the movie wrong Poe gets a piece of a map. The map can be and is ready by the resistance but they deem it to be incomplete. The map shows a star system. Later R2D2 awakens and he shows a bigger map with a piece missing in the middle and the piece Poe found fits in the middle and suddenly they know where to find luke. It might take days and the resources of the CIA or something but if you showed me a piece of a map of anywhere on earth I could figure out where on earth it shows. I like to imagine an advanced interstellar civilization could do the same with a star chart of thousands of stars.

Using earth based and orbiting telescopes we have mapped the locations of over a billion stars in the milky way galaxy. I reckon the civilizations of star wars can do better

This post has been edited by Cause: 26 December 2016 - 06:24 PM

[Cause]

What your saying makes no sense from what I can find online or from what is shown in the movie. The map shows them where to go. R2D2 only places that small map into a bigger map. A map that does not mark X is not a map.

The very idea of hyperspace travel in the universe requires a computer to calculate the journey in advance so it can avoid bumping into a planet or star during the journey in which the speed is too great to react in real time. How they cant place a map into the greater context of the universe is a plot hole.

http://ew.com/articl...-force-awakens/

This post has been edited by Cause: 26 December 2016 - 07:45 PM

[polishgenius]

It all comes down to the fact that JJ Abrams really has no idea what space looks like.

[Traveller]

That was one of my main bugs with FAs. In the OT they have to calculate an LS jump, in FA they just jump from a hanger.

[Cause]

Traveller, on 27 December 2016 - 07:53 AM, said:

That was one of my main bugs with FAs. In the OT they have to calculate an LS jump, in FA they just jump from a hanger.

and hyperspace to within a km of a planets surface, and jump in the millenium falcon before the calculations are complete. But they pull this kind of crap in all the movies

The shield does not stop things going faster than hyperspace speeds. So they should have just shot the weapon with a hyperspace nmissile! Also it means the millenium falcon decelerated from faster than lightspeed to about mach 1 in less than 0.0001 parsecs

This post has been edited by Cause: 27 December 2016 - 12:59 PM

[Traveller]

Yes, after the initial 'ain't like dusting crops, boy' comment, they seemed to completely disregard any sort of actual course plotting. Most noticably in ep5 when R2 fixes the hyperdrive during their escape and it just jumps into LS regardless of whichever random direction they're pointing in at the time.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

Cause, on 27 December 2016 - 12:55 PM, said:

Traveller, on 27 December 2016 - 07:53 AM, said:

That was one of my main bugs with FAs. In the OT they have to calculate an LS jump, in FA they just jump from a hanger.

and hyperspace to within a km of a planets surface, and jump in the millenium falcon before the calculations are complete. But they pull this kind of crap in all the movies

The shield does not stop things going faster than hyperspace speeds. So they should have just shot the weapon with a hyperspace nmissile! Also it means the millenium falcon decelerated from faster than lightspeed to about mach 1 in less than 0.0001 parsecs

And in Rogue One

Spoiler

when Cassian jumps them off the surface (!!!) of Jedha, despite K2 saying it hadn't finished calculating a jump. I was expecting there to be some consequences from that, but nope.

[Traveller]

Ok but surely they had to at least be pointing in the right direction? Any deviation and at LS they'd be a billion miles out.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Just saw it, I liked it. Not perfect, but good.

[Aptorian]

I hope RLY was commenting on the film and not Briar's comment.

[Aptorian]

Not sure what is going in spoiler blocks or not so I'll just be safe:

Spoiler

Watched Rogue One yesterday. It was cool but didn't blow my socks off or anything. Part of it was probably that, much like a historic film, you knew what had to happen and at a certain point what the outcome would probably be. The other part being that I've never been that fond of the series of films (They're so god damn anachronistic!). But it was a good film.

Favorite part has to be the use of the Death Star. God damn those detonations were cool. I was a little bit confused about how the thing works though. When it fires that laser beam, isn't it like a normal impact or is it more like a focused detonation in one tiny spot? Because both times it's fired it's at an angle to planet, which would make you think the shot should be throwing debris in one direction away from the Death Star and not straight up like it's shown.

Also, how the fuck is this thing moving through Hypespace? How does Hyperspace even work for a moon-size object? Doesn't it need some kind of propulsion? As far as I recall hyperspace isn't just folding space, so it needs to travel right? I wish there had been actual conversations with Mads Mikkelsens character and various engineers, telling us more about the Death Star.

I've got a technical question for the lore nerds. What is the actual function of Storm Trooper armor? Is it actually supposed to be able to deflect laser beams? Is it just that at close range your average laser gun works like an assault riffle and goes through most ballistic armor? I caught myself wondering about all those Storm Troopers getting shot and thinking that armor sure doesn't seem very effective.

Apparently it's also very weak to bow strikes.

This post has been edited by Apt: 30 December 2016 - 01:26 PM

[Slow Ben]

Apparently the Empire is a big fan of Form over Function.

[HoosierDaddy]

Alright Rogue One deniers: Fight me IRL!

Lol.

@Apt: In the old EU the armor was supposed to help diffuse laser weapons. Frankly, I think it's just to make them look like fascist army toys then and now.

At least TFA had blood come from one.

[Nevyn]

I will say up front a fun movie, and worthy of the franchise.

Spoiler

But to me the very ending was a tad sloppy.

Leah being with the rebel fleet there (when she is meant to be off finding Obi-Wan) doesn't make a lot of sense.

It feels like they threw in that twist, because it set up the disk relay, which allowed for Vader to kick some butt. But to me it would make far more sense for people on that ship to realize they are doomed, and try to hold Vader off while desperately trying to relay the transmission. And then coincidentally Leah's ship is the only one close enough to pick up the relay.

This way, not only does it make hardly any sense for her to be there, but it really changes her New Hope intro with Vader, where she is trying to play innocent.

If Lucas was still in charge he would probably now do another new special edition where Leah tries to say they are on a diplomatic mission, and instead of "you are part of the Rebel alliance and a traitor", Vader says "bitch, WE SAW YOU!".

[QuickTidal]

Nevyn, on 30 December 2016 - 03:40 PM, said:

I will say up front a fun movie, and worthy of the franchise.

Spoiler

But to me the very ending was a tad sloppy.

Leah being with the rebel fleet there (when she is meant to be off finding Obi-Wan) doesn't make a lot of sense.

It feels like they threw in that twist, because it set up the disk relay, which allowed for Vader to kick some butt. But to me it would make far more sense for people on that ship to realize they are doomed, and try to hold Vader off while desperately trying to relay the transmission. And then coincidentally Leah's ship is the only one close enough to pick up the relay.

This way, not only does it make hardly any sense for her to be there, but it really changes her New Hope intro with Vader, where she is trying to play innocent.

If Lucas was still in charge he would probably now do another new special edition where Leah tries to say they are on a diplomatic mission, and instead of "you are part of the Rebel alliance and a traitor", Vader says "bitch, WE SAW YOU!".

Spoiler

2 things.

1. Leia being with the fleet over Scarif makes perfect sense and doesn't affect ANH at all. Yes, she was tasked with finding Obi-Wan by her father (those comments are made to Bail Organa in RO just before Scarif, so he doesn't send her till at least after that conversation with Mon Mothma) So that happens after/during Scarif. and remember that the Rebel fleet being there at all was a last minute decision AFTER Rogue One went there even though they'd been denied that mission. So the Tantive IV being there makes sense too as they would have been called in for protection.

2. Vader doesn't know the call signs of the Rebel Fleet. Like at all. He has no idea that the ship that rescued the plans off the ship he had boarded (the one where he unleashed hell) is the Tantive IV when they catch it and board it a few days later. All they know is that the ship that escaped with the plans was an CR90 Corellian Corvette. A ship that was in WIDE USE at the tail end of the Galactic Empire. The names aren't written on the sides of them...and the Rebel call signs would NEVER be known to the Empire. And he certainly didn't see Leia herself during the struggle. The Tantive IV escapes undamaged and jumps to hyperspace. Even if Vader sends the Devastator (his ship) after it immediately, he can't know for sure it's the same ship. So Leia plays it straight in ANH when she meets him, and pretends they are just another CR90 Corellian Corvette on a diplomatic mission from her home planet. It makes perfect sense actually...and they were very careful in how they shot it to make it so. No one ever sees Leia, and Vader never is aboard the Tantive IV proper before it disengages the other Rebel ship and escapes.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 30 December 2016 - 04:32 PM

[QuickTidal]

I'm pretty sure all the Rebellion ships have fake and multiple transponder ids (like the falcon) to throw off the Empire. Otherwise it would be nigh impossible to hide the fleet.

[the broken]

Armour can still be useful for things like shrapnel even if it doesn't hold up to direct fire. I know they're laser guns, but they do seem to make things explode on impact

Re the Tantive IV:

Spoiler

If it was there and escaped, how could Vader catch it again? It's a plot point several times across the films that ships can't be caught once they get to lightspeed.