[Itwæs Nom]

 Cause, on 07 February 2018 - 09:31 AM, said:

I'm at work. Just hard to get the time.

I changed my vote last night, then fell asleep and had no time to explain before the reveal, thought id have time to explain this morning but lab drama. I actually was going to suggest we force ourselves into a corner to the third attempt at making a government. Then the defacto vote from everyone should be to form the government or we get a 2/3rd chance automatic fascist policy. I thought it would be the most enlightening to then see who voted no, or if we all voted yes to see what policy we ended up with. The fascists can never vote no under these circumstances and would be extremely brave to enact a fascist policy no? repeat?

The only cover remaining to them at that point would be that all 3 policies that showed up were fascist and forced their hands. In such circumstances never let the same 2 people form a government together again?

I can't think of a good reason for anyone to vote Nein on the 3rd nomination

And I don't see how the rest does not apply to any other government?

[Dolmen 2.0]

 Messremb, on 07 February 2018 - 07:36 AM, said:

*Nods approvingly at Dolmen*

Handed one of each. Likely Dolmen discarded a fascist? Since I wasn't handed the 2nd fascist and the liberal discarded instead Dolmen is seeing how I choose whilst putting himself in a positive light. Not clear just less murky.

A good read of the action.

I missed my chance to post earlier as my daughter was being obstinate on the school run.

Tats, just because Mess played liberal doesn't mean you should be our goto guy. That read of play history may favor him as a candidate next turn which is exactly what Hitler wants.

I say I am happy for the liberal policy we passed.

if Cause is fascist or Hitler I think we look for players trying to Symp or distance. maybe that can tell us who to avoid.

Just wanted to highlight what Mac told me. The next president gets powers from any fascist policy this terms govt put through. Alot at stake considering our next president. perhaps we benefit from rejecting the first two govts and dealing with Nom and his candidate?

[Dolmen 2.0]

 Itwæs Nom, on 07 February 2018 - 09:37 AM, said:

I can't think of a good reason for anyone to vote Nein on the 3rd nomination

And I don't see how the rest does not apply to any other government?

I might have it wrong and Cause has a legitimate excuse but in Mafia being caught in what looks like a lie is going to see you treated as though you were caught in a lie.

If you as the third president nominate Cause that would really undermine my faith in the govt at that point. I'd want to go with a lucky draw instead. Would maybe others do the same? I think so.


I'm just saying the reasons are there if you look for them.

[Tattersail_]

 Itwæs Nom, on 07 February 2018 - 09:32 AM, said:

Not a fan of Nevyn's approach either because it gives away very little about them. There's never going to be enough facts to guarantee liberals the win, we always have to operate with unknown variables in order to move forward. And it's what you do with the unknowns that gives others hints about your alignment, so because there's always unknowns we shouldn't resort to default votes because that limits the information we give away about ourselves to the minimum, and it might not give away any facts but hints are just as essential to this game as facts.

Also I'm not particularly inclined to vote Ja because what Nevyn said, I'm the 3rd president nominee and I know I'm liberal so there's that.

Like we just voted in Dolmen and got a liberal result means that we don't have to wait 3 times every time. I'm a Liberal so vote me in, I propose to vote in either

D'rek, Dolmen, Venge, Nom, or Nevyn

Don't buy Cause's excuse, had time to switch vote but not say so on thread.

[Tattersail_]

 Dolmen 2.0, on 07 February 2018 - 09:55 AM, said:

 Messremb, on 07 February 2018 - 07:36 AM, said:

*Nods approvingly at Dolmen*

Handed one of each. Likely Dolmen discarded a fascist? Since I wasn't handed the 2nd fascist and the liberal discarded instead Dolmen is seeing how I choose whilst putting himself in a positive light. Not clear just less murky.

A good read of the action.

I missed my chance to post earlier as my daughter was being obstinate on the school run.

Tats, just because Mess played liberal doesn't mean you should be our goto guy. That read of play history may favor him as a candidate next turn which is exactly what Hitler wants.

I say I am happy for the liberal policy we passed.

if Cause is fascist or Hitler I think we look for players trying to Symp or distance. maybe that can tell us who to avoid.

Just wanted to highlight what Mac told me. The next president gets powers from any fascist policy this terms govt put through. Alot at stake considering our next president. perhaps we benefit from rejecting the first two govts and dealing with Nom and his candidate?

So if I am president I get fascist powers? Does that change me from liberal to fascist? I doubt it very much, to win we need 6 liberal policies, so i'd be trying to promote the liberal policy regardless of any powers I may absorb.

[Itwæs Nom]

 Tattersail_, on 07 February 2018 - 10:20 AM, said:

 Dolmen 2.0, on 07 February 2018 - 09:55 AM, said:

 Messremb, on 07 February 2018 - 07:36 AM, said:

*Nods approvingly at Dolmen*

Handed one of each. Likely Dolmen discarded a fascist? Since I wasn't handed the 2nd fascist and the liberal discarded instead Dolmen is seeing how I choose whilst putting himself in a positive light. Not clear just less murky.

A good read of the action.

I missed my chance to post earlier as my daughter was being obstinate on the school run.

Tats, just because Mess played liberal doesn't mean you should be our goto guy. That read of play history may favor him as a candidate next turn which is exactly what Hitler wants.

I say I am happy for the liberal policy we passed.

if Cause is fascist or Hitler I think we look for players trying to Symp or distance. maybe that can tell us who to avoid.

Just wanted to highlight what Mac told me. The next president gets powers from any fascist policy this terms govt put through. Alot at stake considering our next president. perhaps we benefit from rejecting the first two govts and dealing with Nom and his candidate?

So if I am president I get fascist powers? Does that change me from liberal to fascist? I doubt it very much, to win we need 6 liberal policies, so i'd be trying to promote the liberal policy regardless of any powers I may absorb.

Here's the powers

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[Tattersail_]

What is best for us at the moment? To skip me and Cause and gamble Nom is liberal?

[Cause]

 Dolmen 2.0, on 07 February 2018 - 09:55 AM, said:

if Cause is fascist or Hitler I think we look for players trying to Symp or distance. maybe that can tell us who to avoid.

The logic trap of this is that to say it to distance yourself from me. We need to separate speculation from actual actionable intelligence.

Phase 1:

Pres: Drek
vc: Dolmen

Government failed - We all seemed to agree having Dolmen be in government twice in a row early would be foolish

Phase 2:

Pres: Dolmen
VC: Messremb

Government passed

2 dissenting votes:

Neveyn: claims he only vote for governments he is on, so far consistently true
Cause: Seemingly caught in a lie. I wont speculate about myself since I am obviously a biased voice

Policy passed: Liberal

Dolmen's claim: F F L - He discarded one fascist and passed on
Messremb Claim: F L - he discarded remaining fascist and passed the liberal policy.

Can speculate on this for ever... Truth? Lies? Smokescreen? Both fascist? For now all we know is they chose to pass a liberal policy

Phase 3: Underway

Pres: Tattersail


Id say the key is to avoid pointless accusations and speculation, keep the noise to a minimum. Take our time and be methodical. We need to focus on actual evidence, and we should draw up a game plan and punish those who don't follow it. That's what I was going to try and plan this morning. Thought there would be time. I haven't run out all the scenarios but I'm sure the mathematics are on the liberal side. Plot out the path and follow it. Decide now for example if there is ever a good reason to pass a fascist policy for the powers or do we just aim for a completely liberal agenda. If we limit the potential moves, we get a better idea of whose playing for the other side when they claim they had no choice but to deviate.

This post has been edited by Cause: 07 February 2018 - 10:46 AM

[Cause]

 Tattersail_, on 07 February 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

What is best for us at the moment? To skip me and Cause and gamble Nom is liberal?

Why are we skipping you?

[Tattersail_]

 Cause, on 07 February 2018 - 10:40 AM, said:

 Tattersail_, on 07 February 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

What is best for us at the moment? To skip me and Cause and gamble Nom is liberal?

Why are we skipping you?

They are proposing to skip and only except the third nomination to avoid going into chaos.

[Tattersail_]

I am going to Nominate D'rek as my chancellor.

For the reason that she is furthest away from president, that hasn't been in a position of power. Please vote Ja or Nein.

[Macros]

Pm Macros your votes people

[Cause]

I think it was me who suggested we always wait for the 3rd government. Not sure anyone else agrees though.

[Itwæs Nom]

At this point can we still speculate on here and wait before casting our votes or should we vote asap?

No accusation is pointless because reactions to accusations give you a measure of the person being accused, for example Hitler might be inclined to overreact by vehemently defending themselves against accusation that has next to no merit to it and this behaviour would imply that the person sees themselves as very important individually, because the strength of liberals lie in their numbers, not the individuals like with fascists.

[Itwæs Nom]

 Tattersail_, on 07 February 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

What is best for us at the moment? To skip me and Cause and gamble Nom is liberal?

Again, that's the kinda default behaviour that gives away little info. Plus for liberals this seems like a complete nonsense unless you have something to make you think that I'm more likely liberal than the rest of candidates. I guess what we're doing here is we take all the remaining candidates before random policy is enacted and decide which one of them is the most liberal, also possibly who is most likely to nominate a liberal chancellor and then decide between the 3 and vote for them. Ofcourse this isn't mafia kinda voting where we specifically vote for players so it doesn't work exactly like that but it seems like the gist of it to me.
So since to me I'm the most liberal candidate I'd prefer to vote Nein, but if people were of the mind to elect Cause's government over mine if Tatts' was voted down then I'd vote Ja.

[Tattersail_]

I'd say elect me, see what falls out with D'rek and go from there. Hmm, it's in the fascists interest to get to the third one and then try and force a nein vote.

[Itwæs Nom]

Does the next president get a power even if a fascicst policy was enacted by random?

[Cause]

 Itwæs Nom, on 07 February 2018 - 01:27 PM, said:

Does the next president get a power even if a fascicst policy was enacted by random?

My understanding is the powers unlock based on the number of fascist policies passed regardless of how, The powers represent the government becoming more authoritarian. My understanding is also that the powers remain in play forever once the requisite number of fascist policies has passed, though I think a president can only use one a round. Never mind,

Its in the fascists interest to make sure no government passes to force the random policy yes. However its in no ones interest to be seen doing so. Unless someone can strongly convince others that the government is made of fascists everyone should default to yes when the 3rd government attempt pops up. Currently their is no reason to suspect Itwaers, so it would be highly suspicious If he was government attempt 3 and people did not let it form

This post has been edited by Cause: 07 February 2018 - 01:42 PM

[Tattersail_]

So Cause is advocating no for my government, maybe cause he sees me as liberal it is in his interest to let his fascist mate into term? Do all fascists, except Hitler, know each other?

[Tattersail_]

If Venge votes yes to me then he is third on the next President so it is in his interest to vote yes, in Nevyn's as well if we vote in Cause after me, but would we do that? Unlikely.