[Abyss]

nacht, on 24 November 2017 - 10:21 AM, said:

Abyss, on 23 November 2017 - 09:31 PM, said:

Everything about the 'Shadowstorm' was pure Malazan awesome.

Ditto everything about the 'Napan invasion'. Holy. Fuck. Dassem.

Kallor's little surprise for Nightchill and Kem's intervention felt a little inconsequential tho'.

It bought to attention the power of the fisherman though.

True but from Agalyla's comment to Chem, that was never in doubt among the mages on the island at least.

[Abyss]

AAAAAAND DONE!

....rereadings a few bits from the last third again...


Wait... how can Hawl be dead.. isn't she supposed to marry Nok and show up on Drift Avalii...?

Oh Shrift... anyone could have told you Surly wasn't the easy one. Dumbass.
Heh... Urko.... "almost got one".... he's talking about a frikkin Hound of Shadow! Love that he impressed Nightchill.

I like how Whiskeyjack's supreme tactical acumen is represented by 'set them all on fire!'.


The scene with Kel, Dancer, Dassem, Tays and Surly all in the room.... damn, that was subtle glorious. So much foreshadowing. SO MUCH.

Lee... not useless after all. That knife fight was coooOOOoooool.

The Army of the Dead! Ooooooooo....

Oh, hi Opal! ...nice claw....


....and thus, Just Finished. Great great book. Pure Malazan awesome. Loved it.

Massive post to follow asap, time to jump into some other threads.

[stejen]

Quote

I like how Whiskeyjack's supreme tactical acumen is represented by 'set them all on fire!'.

You mean when jack burned all the bridges

[Abyss]

stejen, on 25 November 2017 - 09:23 AM, said:

Quote

I like how Whiskeyjack's supreme tactical acumen is represented by 'set them all on fire!'.

You mean when jack burned all the bridges

Yes, yes I do.

[flea]

Damn, that was a fun read.

ICE works best on a smaller scale, with fewer story threads. Has he always possessed a comic voice? The scenes with Kellenved and Dancer were great.

[Abyss]

He always did, but in the more massive books I suppose it was less evident.

[One Eye]

Been lurking since 2006 and have to say I'm waiting with bated breath for your big just finished post Abyss. Need to know the thoughts from your thinky meatz! 😏

[champ]

flea, on 26 November 2017 - 11:09 PM, said:

Damn, that was a fun read.

ICE works best on a smaller scale, with fewer story threads. Has he always possessed a comic voice? The scenes with Kellenved and Dancer were great.

Manask was probably his best piece of comedic writing... that was what told me he could do it.

[Abyss]

Ok... JUST FINISHED the re-re-read... let's do this...

SPOILERS ON UNBLOCKED MASSIVE

SPOILERS


SPOILERS

FOR THE ENTIRE MALAZAN SERIES


SPOILERS

SPOILERS



I loved DEADHOUSE LANDING. This was pure Malazan goodness, with all the trimmings...
Great characters with complex histories and motives - check.
Hints and clues of much bigger and complex things going on around the main story - check.
Random bits of old magic encounter becausethat's how this world works - check.
Humour - check.
Mages throwing crazy ass magic at each other - check.
Large groups of people with sharp objects doing bad things to each other - check.
Assassin duels - oh hell yes check.
Old friends and great new ones - check and (sort of, see below) check.


This took the story from DANCER'S LAMENT and moved it along very very nicely. Dancer and Wu/Kellanved's partnership continued to evolve while working in the majority of the Old Guard and others. We saw the beginnings of the Malazan Empire, the start of Dancer and Kell's jounrey thru the warrens and Azath, Dassem's break from Hood began, Whiskeyjack and Dujek's career beginnings, Tayshrenn becoming involved, Surly setting the groundwork for the Claw... there was SO MUCH here for the long term Malazfan to enjoy.


BEST OLD FRIEND(S) BACK AGAIN: Cannot give this to anyone but Dancer and Kellanved. I really saw how their partnership and friendship had evolved from its beginnings on LAMENT. The banter, the way Dancer covers Wu and Wu knows he's got his back and focuses on doing whatever to save them both, the trust when one moves to deal with something without the other... all of it just lay such perfet groundwork for the epic/dysfunctional partnership we saw in the MBFs.

BEST NOT SO FRIEND BACK AGAIN: Stop me if you've heard this one... Kallor walks into a bar, starts a fight and stabs a whole bunch of people... per my earlier thread, for a character who usually gets a suitably dramatic entrance to a story, this was my favorite Kallor entrance ever. I enjoyed the rest of his journey, from Lars' perspective as well. The way he dealt with the mutiny was spot on. The Mekros city was a treat. My only complaint was the conclusion, running up, stabbing Nightchill, getting pulled away by Chem, was less impressive, even if it was in keeping with Kallor's usual perchant/aspect for futility and failure. And Agayla's 'i don't think we'll see him again' was kind of silly when everyone reading knows damn well he shows up again. Still... "Whoever gives me a ride gets to keep all this." and standing back for the inevitable stabbyfeste ... and "We can trade." "No." "Then give me what i want and i won't sink your stupid city." "Fine."... just so very Kallor. ICE gets this character.

BEST NEW CHARACTER: Allowing for Lee to be considered 'new' (assuming the Opal (or Opals) we've seen in later books aren't different characters entirely), Opal and Mock are really the only truly 'new' characters in this book, and Mock was an idiot, so Lee takes the prize. I did enjoy how Mock showed brief moments of competence so he wasn't merely a creepy old lech taking advantage of his naive battlemag with daddy-issues. That said, i enjoyed Lee's pov's on Dancer and Surly and Dassem, how she went from criminal lieutenant to running her own crew, to the start of the Claw. it was an interesting evolution and a good pov character to show us the early stage but more well know badasses with new perspective. Shear almost makes this list, but while i really enjoyed her part in Das' story, she was ultimately a supporting player. That said...

BEST NEW SUPPORTING CHARACTER: ..i really, really enjoyed Shear and Dassem's interaction, training, duel (foreplay), and fight against the outlaw soldiers. The side story humanzied Dassem, gave us another interesting Seguleh who broke from what we know of their culture, and some fun swordply. .....no that's not a pun, shut up you pervs. Also an interesting bit of foreshadowing for Dassem's eventual relationship with the Seguleh in ORB.

BEST THAT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN FUNNY BIT IT WAS: Child 'double-dog-dares' Kellanved to step off the Azath path. So he does. I laughed. Almost in spite of myself, seeing exactly where that was going, i laughed.

BEST MOMENT OF SHEER BADASSERY: This book had a lot... Dancer v 12 thugs, Surly v Geffen, Tattersail throwing around a burning ship, Kellanved binding the Hounds, Dassem holding the bridge, Lee's knife fight... it's kind of hard to pick just one. Knowing what we know, i'll give it to Kellamved. That said...

BEST FUNNY: "I told the Hound they would see more action in my service." "So... you cut a deal." "Hey, words have meaning!" ...hee...

BEST FORESHADOWING: Lee going from awe of Dancer to borderline worship of Dassem to hiring on with Kellanved to flat out serving Surly as an agent. Oh, that is a loaded subplot, that is. Runner-up with D'rek's chat with Tays and then itselves about Tay's future.

SHIP OUT / SHAPE UP: I enjoyed everything to do with the Twisted. The purchase, the rumours, the rebuild, the sea journey, Kell's nacht taking up residence... there was so much fun and history and magic at work here and it all came together in a so very Malazan sort of way.

HAWL OUT: Look... ICE... if you're reading this... either she wasn't dead or someone else gets the name. No excuses. Hawl can't die in LANDING and then show up on Avalii in CHAINS without at least a tiny little explanation. DON'T DISAPPOINT ME DAMN YOU I GAVE YOU A PASS ON THE WHOLE SHOOL SHUL THING BACK IN STONEWIELDER.

More to come.

[Andorion]

Abyss, on 27 November 2017 - 03:55 PM, said:

Ok... JUST FINISHED the re-re-read... let's do this...

SPOILERS ON UNBLOCKED MASSIVE

SPOILERS


SPOILERS

FOR THE ENTIRE MALAZAN SERIES


SPOILERS

SPOILERS



I loved DEADHOUSE LANDING. This was pure Malazan goodness, with all the trimmings...
Great characters with complex histories and motives - check.
Hints and clues of much bigger and complex things going on around the main story - check.
Random bits of old magic encounter becausethat's how this world works - check.
Humour - check.
Mages throwing crazy ass magic at each other - check.
Large groups of people with sharp objects doing bad things to each other - check.
Assassin duels - oh hell yes check.
Old friends and great new ones - check and (sort of, see below) check.


This took the story from DANCER'S LAMENT and moved it along very very nicely. Dancer and Wu/Kellanved's partnership continued to evolve while working in the majority of the Old Guard and others. We saw the beginnings of the Malazan Empire, the start of Dancer and Kell's jounrey thru the warrens and Azath, Dassem's break from Hood began, Whiskeyjack and Dujek's career beginnings, Tayshrenn becoming involved, Surly setting the groundwork for the Claw... there was SO MUCH here for the long term Malazfan to enjoy.


BEST OLD FRIEND(S) BACK AGAIN: Cannot give this to anyone but Dancer and Kellanved. I really saw how their partnership and friendship had evolved from its beginnings on LAMENT. The banter, the way Dancer covers Wu and Wu knows he's got his back and focuses on doing whatever to save them both, the trust when one moves to deal with something without the other... all of it just lay such perfet groundwork for the epic/dysfunctional partnership we saw in the MBFs.

BEST NOT SO FRIEND BACK AGAIN: Stop me if you've heard this one... Kallor walks into a bar, starts a fight and stabs a whole bunch of people... per my earlier thread, for a character who usually gets a suitably dramatic entrance to a story, this was my favorite Kallor entrance ever. I enjoyed the rest of his journey, from Lars' perspective as well. The way he dealt with the mutiny was spot on. The Mekros city was a treat. My only complaint was the conclusion, running up, stabbing Nightchill, getting pulled away by Chem, was less impressive, even if it was in keeping with Kallor's usual perchant/aspect for futility and failure. And Agayla's 'i don't think we'll see him again' was kind of silly when everyone reading knows damn well he shows up again. Still... "Whoever gives me a ride gets to keep all this." and standing back for the inevitable stabbyfeste ... and "We can trade." "No." "Then give me what i want and i won't sink your stupid city." "Fine."... just so very Kallor. ICE gets this character.

BEST NEW CHARACTER: Allowing for Lee to be considered 'new' (assuming the Opal (or Opals) we've seen in later books aren't different characters entirely), Opal and Mock are really the only truly 'new' characters in this book, and Mock was an idiot, so Lee takes the prize. I did enjoy how Mock showed brief moments of competence so he wasn't merely a creepy old lech taking advantage of his naive battlemag with daddy-issues. That said, i enjoyed Lee's pov's on Dancer and Surly and Dassem, how she went from criminal lieutenant to running her own crew, to the start of the Claw. it was an interesting evolution and a good pov character to show us the early stage but more well know badasses with new perspective. Shear almost makes this list, but while i really enjoyed her part in Das' story, she was ultimately a supporting player. That said...

BEST NEW SUPPORTING CHARACTER: ..i really, really enjoyed Shear and Dassem's interaction, training, duel (foreplay), and fight against the outlaw soldiers. The side story humanzied Dassem, gave us another interesting Seguleh who broke from what we know of their culture, and some fun swordply. .....no that's not a pun, shut up you pervs. Also an interesting bit of foreshadowing for Dassem's eventual relationship with the Seguleh in ORB.

BEST THAT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN FUNNY BIT IT WAS: Child 'double-dog-dares' Kellanved to step off the Azath path. So he does. I laughed. Almost in spite of myself, seeing exactly where that was going, i laughed.

BEST MOMENT OF SHEER BADASSERY: This book had a lot... Dancer v 12 thugs, Surly v Geffen, Tattersail throwing around a burning ship, Kellanved binding the Hounds, Dassem holding the bridge, Lee's knife fight... it's kind of hard to pick just one. Knowing what we know, i'll give it to Kellamved. That said...

BEST FUNNY: "I told the Hound they would see more action in my service." "So... you cut a deal." "Hey, words have meaning!" ...hee...

BEST FORESHADOWING: Lee going from awe of Dancer to borderline worship of Dassem to hiring on with Kellanved to flat out serving Surly as an agent. Oh, that is a loaded subplot, that is. Runner-up with D'rek's chat with Tays and then itselves about Tay's future.

SHIP OUT / SHAPE UP: I enjoyed everything to do with the Twisted. The purchase, the rumours, the rebuild, the sea journey, Kell's nacht taking up residence... there was so much fun and history and magic at work here and it all came together in a so very Malazan sort of way.

HAWL OUT: Look... ICE... if you're reading this... either she wasn't dead or someone else gets the name. No excuses. Hawl can't die in LANDING and then show up on Avalii in CHAINS without at least a tiny little explanation. DON'T DISAPPOINT ME DAMN YOU I GAVE YOU A PASS ON THE WHOLE SHOOL SHUL THING BACK IN STONEWIELDER.

More to come.

One thing I really loved was the Shadow creature naming them Ammanas and Cotillion and explaining the meanings of the names

[One Eye]

Andorion, on 27 November 2017 - 04:37 PM, said:

Abyss, on 27 November 2017 - 03:55 PM, said:

Ok... JUST FINISHED the re-re-read... let's do this...

SPOILERS ON UNBLOCKED MASSIVE

SPOILERS


SPOILERS

FOR THE ENTIRE MALAZAN SERIES


SPOILERS

SPOILERS



I loved DEADHOUSE LANDING. This was pure Malazan goodness, with all the trimmings...
Great characters with complex histories and motives - check.
Hints and clues of much bigger and complex things going on around the main story - check.
Random bits of old magic encounter becausethat's how this world works - check.
Humour - check.
Mages throwing crazy ass magic at each other - check.
Large groups of people with sharp objects doing bad things to each other - check.
Assassin duels - oh hell yes check.
Old friends and great new ones - check and (sort of, see below) check.


This took the story from DANCER'S LAMENT and moved it along very very nicely. Dancer and Wu/Kellanved's partnership continued to evolve while working in the majority of the Old Guard and others. We saw the beginnings of the Malazan Empire, the start of Dancer and Kell's jounrey thru the warrens and Azath, Dassem's break from Hood began, Whiskeyjack and Dujek's career beginnings, Tayshrenn becoming involved, Surly setting the groundwork for the Claw... there was SO MUCH here for the long term Malazfan to enjoy.


BEST OLD FRIEND(S) BACK AGAIN: Cannot give this to anyone but Dancer and Kellanved. I really saw how their partnership and friendship had evolved from its beginnings on LAMENT. The banter, the way Dancer covers Wu and Wu knows he's got his back and focuses on doing whatever to save them both, the trust when one moves to deal with something without the other... all of it just lay such perfet groundwork for the epic/dysfunctional partnership we saw in the MBFs.

BEST NOT SO FRIEND BACK AGAIN: Stop me if you've heard this one... Kallor walks into a bar, starts a fight and stabs a whole bunch of people... per my earlier thread, for a character who usually gets a suitably dramatic entrance to a story, this was my favorite Kallor entrance ever. I enjoyed the rest of his journey, from Lars' perspective as well. The way he dealt with the mutiny was spot on. The Mekros city was a treat. My only complaint was the conclusion, running up, stabbing Nightchill, getting pulled away by Chem, was less impressive, even if it was in keeping with Kallor's usual perchant/aspect for futility and failure. And Agayla's 'i don't think we'll see him again' was kind of silly when everyone reading knows damn well he shows up again. Still... "Whoever gives me a ride gets to keep all this." and standing back for the inevitable stabbyfeste ... and "We can trade." "No." "Then give me what i want and i won't sink your stupid city." "Fine."... just so very Kallor. ICE gets this character.

BEST NEW CHARACTER: Allowing for Lee to be considered 'new' (assuming the Opal (or Opals) we've seen in later books aren't different characters entirely), Opal and Mock are really the only truly 'new' characters in this book, and Mock was an idiot, so Lee takes the prize. I did enjoy how Mock showed brief moments of competence so he wasn't merely a creepy old lech taking advantage of his naive battlemag with daddy-issues. That said, i enjoyed Lee's pov's on Dancer and Surly and Dassem, how she went from criminal lieutenant to running her own crew, to the start of the Claw. it was an interesting evolution and a good pov character to show us the early stage but more well know badasses with new perspective. Shear almost makes this list, but while i really enjoyed her part in Das' story, she was ultimately a supporting player. That said...

BEST NEW SUPPORTING CHARACTER: ..i really, really enjoyed Shear and Dassem's interaction, training, duel (foreplay), and fight against the outlaw soldiers. The side story humanzied Dassem, gave us another interesting Seguleh who broke from what we know of their culture, and some fun swordply. .....no that's not a pun, shut up you pervs. Also an interesting bit of foreshadowing for Dassem's eventual relationship with the Seguleh in ORB.

BEST THAT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN FUNNY BIT IT WAS: Child 'double-dog-dares' Kellanved to step off the Azath path. So he does. I laughed. Almost in spite of myself, seeing exactly where that was going, i laughed.

BEST MOMENT OF SHEER BADASSERY: This book had a lot... Dancer v 12 thugs, Surly v Geffen, Tattersail throwing around a burning ship, Kellanved binding the Hounds, Dassem holding the bridge, Lee's knife fight... it's kind of hard to pick just one. Knowing what we know, i'll give it to Kellamved. That said...

BEST FUNNY: "I told the Hound they would see more action in my service." "So... you cut a deal." "Hey, words have meaning!" ...hee...

BEST FORESHADOWING: Lee going from awe of Dancer to borderline worship of Dassem to hiring on with Kellanved to flat out serving Surly as an agent. Oh, that is a loaded subplot, that is. Runner-up with D'rek's chat with Tays and then itselves about Tay's future.

SHIP OUT / SHAPE UP: I enjoyed everything to do with the Twisted. The purchase, the rumours, the rebuild, the sea journey, Kell's nacht taking up residence... there was so much fun and history and magic at work here and it all came together in a so very Malazan sort of way.

HAWL OUT: Look... ICE... if you're reading this... either she wasn't dead or someone else gets the name. No excuses. Hawl can't die in LANDING and then show up on Avalii in CHAINS without at least a tiny little explanation. DON'T DISAPPOINT ME DAMN YOU I GAVE YOU A PASS ON THE WHOLE SHOOL SHUL THING BACK IN STONEWIELDER.

More to come.

One thing I really loved was the Shadow creature naming them Ammanas and Cotillion and explaining the meanings of the names

Also really loved the silly, stupid, perfectly Malazan way Wu came up with Kellanved

[Abyss]

One Eye, on 27 November 2017 - 04:56 PM, said:

Andorion, on 27 November 2017 - 04:37 PM, said:

One thing I really loved was the Shadow creature naming them Ammanas and Cotillion and explaining the meanings of the names

Also really loved the silly, stupid, perfectly Malazan way Wu came up with Kellanved

Loved both those things.


..relatedly, had to love the bit where they end up as ghosts in a random Shadow demon village, so Kel just wanders up to a local and says 'hi'.

[Nevyn]

Abyss, on 27 November 2017 - 03:55 PM, said:

HAWL OUT: Look... ICE... if you're reading this... either she wasn't dead or someone else gets the name. No excuses. Hawl can't die in LANDING and then show up on Avalii in CHAINS without at least a tiny little explanation. DON'T DISAPPOINT ME DAMN YOU I GAVE YOU A PASS ON THE WHOLE SHOOL SHUL THING BACK IN STONEWIELDER.

This one is a tad weird.

It just seems so unnecessary. The deaths of Hawl and Grinner served little purpose and could have been avoided. And now we need some form of explanation for a future Hawl character.

So to me, it doesn't just need to be explained now, it needs a payoff. The resurrection of one or both of them and the revelations involved need to pay back for the awkward explaining it takes to do it.

I mean, the Deadhouse is a good candidate to bring them back. But even then, they shouldn't have been written off with such finality if that was the plan.

[Nevyn]

Abyss, on 27 November 2017 - 03:55 PM, said:

BEST NEW SUPPORTING CHARACTER: ..i really, really enjoyed Shear and Dassem's interaction, training, duel (foreplay), and fight against the outlaw soldiers. The side story humanzied Dassem, gave us another interesting Seguleh who broke from what we know of their culture, and some fun swordply. .....no that's not a pun, shut up you pervs. Also an interesting bit of foreshadowing for Dassem's eventual relationship with the Seguleh in ORB.

It could be more meaningful than that.

We've all been kind of assuming that the person Dassem has been protecting and put in Deadhouse (Nara) is his daughter (who Hood will take at some point). But is that ever spelled out?

Could be a false trail, and Dassem and Shear just produced that daughter ... I mean, from Dassem's backstory, he doesn't seem to have had much time to make a daughter Nara's age yet, does he?


Although it would almost be a pity to have a half-Seguleh half Dassem girl born into the world and just taken by Hood.

[Abyss]

Nevyn, on 27 November 2017 - 05:38 PM, said:

Abyss, on 27 November 2017 - 03:55 PM, said:

BEST NEW SUPPORTING CHARACTER: ..i really, really enjoyed Shear and Dassem's interaction, training, duel (foreplay), and fight against the outlaw soldiers. The side story humanzied Dassem, gave us another interesting Seguleh who broke from what we know of their culture, and some fun swordply. .....no that's not a pun, shut up you pervs. Also an interesting bit of foreshadowing for Dassem's eventual relationship with the Seguleh in ORB.

It could be more meaningful than that.

We've all been kind of assuming that the person Dassem has been protecting and put in Deadhouse (Nara) is his daughter (who Hood will take at some point). But is that ever spelled out?

Could be a false trail, and Dassem and Shear just produced that daughter ... I mean, from Dassem's backstory, he doesn't seem to have had much time to make a daughter Nara's age yet, does he?


Although it would almost be a pity to have a half-Seguleh half Dassem girl born into the world and just taken by Hood.

I think i mentioned upthread or elsepost that the description of Nara doesn't match the DG description of the girl Fid and co find lying in the hallway in armour and all cut up, so its entirely possible Nara isn't Das' daughter, or that girl, or else Nara's story isn't done yet, extended nap notwithstanding.

It was also implied in MoI that the final break between Das and Hood was due to a Chaining, which doesn't seem to have happened yet.

I do love the theory that Das and Shear will have a daughter who ends up taking Das' place at a chaining and is placed in the Deadhouse as a result.

[Mezzler]

Surly takes one look at Dancer and hits the punch bag

I was waiting the whole book for somebody to call Surly, Sulky...

Kellanved was epic with those Hounds though... This better be more than a Trilogy.

[Abyss]

Mezzler, on 27 November 2017 - 05:48 PM, said:

Surly takes one look at Dancer and hits the punch bag
...

Heh, that WAS funny.... five minutes with the guy (who probably couldn't care less) and suddenly she upped her training regimen hard!

[Lamora]

I just don't see this ending up a Trilogy. I feel like the fans are loving the books, and the sells are supposed to be very good. If I was ICE and the publishing company, I would continue on for a 7 book series or so. There is still around 100 years before NoK with all kinds of amazing things left in store. The Mage Wars in 7 Cities and the conquering of Quon Tali (plus the actual set up of an Empire with a working government) are both things I want to see. With the next book looking like most of it will feature a search for the Imass, I just can't see this series ending there. Especially since the Imass were never released against Quon Tali? So they need actual Legions under Dassem to take the continent. There is so much left to go. Here is to hoping that this series continues past 3.

[Nevyn]

Lamora, on 27 November 2017 - 06:56 PM, said:

I just don't see this ending up a Trilogy. I feel like the fans are loving the books, and the sells are supposed to be very good. If I was ICE and the publishing company, I would continue on for a 7 book series or so. There is still around 100 years before NoK with all kinds of amazing things left in store. The Mage Wars in 7 Cities and the conquering of Quon Tali (plus the actual set up of an Empire with a working government) are both things I want to see. With the next book looking like most of it will feature a search for the Imass, I just can't see this series ending there. Especially since the Imass were never released against Quon Tali? So they need actual Legions under Dassem to take the continent. There is so much left to go. Here is to hoping that this series continues past 3.

The Imass were used against QT. Specifically Li Heng, you remember, the city from the first book?

Either author could decide to do more early empire stuff in a further series, I just don't see ICE stretching Path to Ascendancy for it. Books covering armies fighting for conquest of multiple continents would require a very different scale and tone than the series to date.

[nacht]

The "Twisted" was wicked. Cartheron complaining about Choos "fixing" the knots and saying that there were too many captains was hilarious (Choss, Hawl).
I am not sure Hawl is dead. "Lost" might just mean a temporary loss in the case of Hawl.

Quote

Hawl lay on the bed, her chest a wet mess of blood; on the floor just at his feet lay Grinner, face down, stabbed in the back.

Quote

We lost Hawl and Grinner