[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

QuickTidal, on 14 January 2025 - 04:32 PM, said:

Abyss, on 14 January 2025 - 04:21 PM, said:

I could almost (almost) write off the early stuff to hit piece spin but now... yeah, this is bad and worse.

Will be interesting to see whether Netflix kills Sandman S2 and/or Audible kills audiodrama S4. DC also staying quiet but i wouldn't expect any new collected editions any time soon.

I could see Netflix just axing SANDMAN even though it sounds like it's mostly complete...just to avoid then bad press....I loved S1, but I won't be watching if they drop S2.


I expect this is a career-killer now....aside from the police involvement that is likely incoming (Vulture would not have posted if the stuff they let the author publish wasn't iron clad in sources; so stuff like Amanda's comment about Ash being in that room without headphones and whatnot is sourced) about their kid, and likely more on the SA front with him AND Amanda...their careers are both effectively over now forever. They MIGHT do what other people who were found out to be shitty did and shift to the right wing grift...but something tells me not. I can't see anyone wanting anything to do with his work now, and from a revenue POV large chunks of that article would be radioactive to any company be they Netflix, or Amazon, or whoever else...just toast, the whole thing.

IDK about Netflix caring so much, they've been giving Dave Chapelle and other "cancelled" megastars a platform for a long time.

Amazon Prime maybe more? Unless Emperor Trump commands them not to... "go woke, get canceled by the government's antitrust / anti-anti-Trump enforcers"!

One interesting suggestion I saw is for Gaiman to sign a (legally binding) contract to donate all his portion of the proceeds from upcoming tv series and audiobooks to charity. That way the cast, crew, etc. would still be paid, and people could buy without giving Gaiman any more money.

Could Gaiman pivot to some sort of anti-woke cult? Maybe start his own version of Scientology? Who would have guessed that Russell Brand would pivot to the alt right?

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: Yesterday, 05:00 PM

[amphibian]

I think my decision to remove Gaiman from my library has to do with how he made several noticeable elements of his abuse as a child into the Ocean book and abuse of others into elements of The Sandman. They are not super subtle and they are there alongside redemptive themes that now have an overtone of creepy rather than the uplifting tone they once had without this knowledge.

Palmer has something going on where she must be the sun around which others orbit in an unhealthy way and it fed into this - and likely her own poor treatment of people as well.

There's many spokes of this that go into how comic and fantasy fans need to have organizational structures that protect them as fans more than what currently exists (that's going to require reformation of conventions and book tours a bit), how easy it is for people to somewhat abet the horrible conduct, and how old this phenomenon is within the American/English fantasy field.

Similar things were happening with Marion Zimmer Bradley and her somehow even worse husband before they got married in Berkeley. I think there has been progress since the Bradley days or the Asimov days, but it's not enough and the people/authors who've been tolling the bell for further action on protecting fans, authors, and the staff even more are right. We need to do more and it may start with reforming cons, book tours, and so on with contracts/clauses/expectations of behavior that exclude relationships or hook-ups with fans.

This post has been edited by amphibian: Yesterday, 07:14 PM

[QuickTidal]

Azath Vitr (D, on 14 January 2025 - 04:59 PM, said:

IDK about Netflix caring so much, they've been giving Dave Chapelle and other "cancelled" megastars a platform for a long time.

There is a UNIVERSE of difference between what Chapelle has been cancelled for, and what Gaiman has done. The stuff about his kid alone, never mind the SA in that article would be enough to throw Sandman S2 into the deepest dark pit ever. There are lines even Netflix won't likely cross, I expect credible SA and child abuse to be those lines.

[QuickTidal]

amphibian, on 14 January 2025 - 07:13 PM, said:

Palmer has something going on where she must be the sun around which others orbit in an unhealthy way and it fed into this - and likely her own poor treatment of people as well.

The line in the article about him lamenting that he and Palmer couldn't have Scarlett together lends credence to the notion that they used to do this as a unit and that only broke down not that long before all this happened to Scarlett. Adding in the "She told me I could not have you" smugness was icing on the ick cake.

amphibian, on 14 January 2025 - 07:13 PM, said:

There's many spokes of this that go into how comic and fantasy fans need to have organizational structures that protect them as fans more than what currently exists (that's going to require reformation of conventions and book tours a bit), how easy it is for people to somewhat abet the horrible conduct, and how old this phenomenon is within the American/English fantasy field.

Having been someone who attended conventions in the past, the sheer amount of creepers that walk around and act like cosplayers or other women are fodder to get creep-photos of, and other gross behaviour were some of the reasons we stopped going. There is no protection at all, unless a woman advocates for herself...so when the stars/celebs themselves go on the prowl, you can imagine that there are even less barriers when they use their power and influence.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

QuickTidal, on 14 January 2025 - 07:14 PM, said:

Azath Vitr (D, on 14 January 2025 - 04:59 PM, said:

IDK about Netflix caring so much, they've been giving Dave Chapelle and other "cancelled" megastars a platform for a long time.

There is a UNIVERSE of difference between what Chapelle has been cancelled for, and what Gaiman has done. The stuff about his kid alone, never mind the SA in that article would be enough to throw Sandman S2 into the deepest dark pit ever. There are lines even Netflix won't likely cross, I expect credible SA and child abuse to be those lines.

Good point, but Russell Brand has also had multiple women accuse him of sexual assault... which caused his shows to be pulled from Paramount+, but not Netflix:

Russell Brand's Stand-Up Pulled From Paramount+ But His Netflix Show Stays

I don't have Netflix but it looks like they're still available.

Will the allegations about his child being present make the difference? Somehow I doubt it. Did people cancel Netflix en masse over Russell Brand? Quick search turned up nothing on that.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: Yesterday, 07:38 PM

[QuickTidal]

Azath Vitr (D, on 14 January 2025 - 07:38 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 14 January 2025 - 07:14 PM, said:

Azath Vitr (D, on 14 January 2025 - 04:59 PM, said:

IDK about Netflix caring so much, they've been giving Dave Chapelle and other "cancelled" megastars a platform for a long time.

There is a UNIVERSE of difference between what Chapelle has been cancelled for, and what Gaiman has done. The stuff about his kid alone, never mind the SA in that article would be enough to throw Sandman S2 into the deepest dark pit ever. There are lines even Netflix won't likely cross, I expect credible SA and child abuse to be those lines.

Good point, but Russell Brand has also had multiple women accuse him of sexual assault... which caused his shows to be pulled from Paramount+, but not Netflix:

Russell Brand's Stand-Up Pulled From Paramount+ But His Netflix Show Stays

I don't have Netflix but it looks like they're still available.

Will the allegations about his child being present make the difference? Somehow I doubt it. Did people cancel Netflix en masse over Russell Brand? Quick search turned up nothing on that.

Yeah that’s fair, I don’t know if it’s a 1:1, but I guess we will have to wait and see what Netflix does. I hope they deep six it myself.

[Abyss]

Gaiman posted a response today. More or less 'everything was consensual or didn't happen, i have the messages to prove it'.
Someone must have shown him the Jian Ghomeshi decision.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Something I noticed this morning was that seemingly in response to people doing the "Terry Pratchett must have known" sort of nonsense, was the sharing of quotes by author Robert Rankin (who I gather was friends with Pratchett) basically supporting the claims made that they weren't friends, they collaborated professionally on one book in the 1990s, Gaiman barely warranted more than a couple of sentences in the recent memoir that Pratchett's assistant wrote, and that he apparently said that he wished he'd never collaborated with Gaiman (though didn't expand on why) and once joked about setting up a support group for those who had "survived a collaboration" with him.

I don't know when the conversations were supposed to have happened, but thought it was worth noting.