[Aptorian]

A teaser trailer that only teases the film? A miracle!



So we didn't really learn much about what this is about but it looks cool. Seems like Marvel have gone full "Africa: The Movie" on the Wakandan setting. That alone will probably create a ton of buzz in America.

I think it's a bit extreme that Black Panther is now capable of just shrugging off getting a full clip from an assault riffle dumped into him close up. It's like they combined Ironman and Spiderman.

I love that Andy Serkis is reprising his role as Claw. He has a super destinct look and aura. I wonder if he turns into solid sound in this film as the main big bad or if there's some other bad guy Claw is working for.

[Tiste Simeon]

I look forward to the "why do they have to make a superhero film with only black people in it" posts that will inevitably crop up.

But yeah this looks pretty cool.

[Illuyankas]

I saw a lady with white hair in it, but I hope Storm doesn't show up. I really felt the two of them getting married in the comics was just a writer throwing two characters who never really interacted together because they both were born in Africa and that it was super lazy

Mostly though I think Black Panther should have married a white woman because it would have realllllly pissed off racists and that sort of shit sustains me on a primal level

[Macros]

dont get your hopes up APT, theres plenty of time for the trailer monsters to ruin this for you


eta - the clip from the AK - luke cage shrugs off worse

This post has been edited by Macros: 10 June 2017 - 08:14 AM

[Silencer]

He already took face fulls of bullets without flinching in Civil War, iirc. I'm fine with it. As much as I think it makes it questionable as to how he'd ever take any damage whatsoever, it's less stupid than people with miniguns refusing to shoot cap's unprotected legs.

As for this trailer, I'm sold. Looks great.

[Dolmen 2.0]

It looks like im going to enjoy this movie.

Storm is still happily under the Fox owned x-men properties. Marvel have yet to win rights so unlikely we will see her and BP get together. This is good, We'll see other Wakandians gain traction. Theres alot of content to cover to establish t'Challa and his Kingdom. I wonder if it'll include scenes of the early trials?

Killmonger seems to be in as a villain maybe teaming up with Klaw.

[worry]

Looks great.

[QuickTidal]

Very excited about this one! Looks fantastic!

[QuickTidal]

I did not, but it's been a while since The Quest. Lol!

[stone monkey]

Interesting to see some afrofuturism going on there, it's probably the first time we've ever seen a film do that.

Fantasic use of "Legend Has It" by Run the Jewels in the trailer too; to be fair though, that's probably the only part of that song they could have used, given what the rest is like. Marvel has been killing it with using hip-hop tunes appropriately in their trailers. Just look at the Luke Cage trailer and its use of "Shimmy Shimmy Ya" by ODB.

This post has been edited by stone monkey: 12 June 2017 - 07:52 PM

[worry]

Black Panther has a unicorn horn for a.........

[Cause]

stone monkey, on 12 June 2017 - 07:47 PM, said:

Interesting to see some afrofuturism going on there, it's probably the first time we've ever seen a film do that.

Fantasic use of "Legend Has It" by Run the Jewels in the trailer too; to be fair though, that's probably the only part of that song they could have used, given what the rest is like. Marvel has been killing it with using hip-hop tunes appropriately in their trailers. Just look at the Luke Cage trailer and its use of "Shimmy Shimmy Ya" by ODB.

I actually disagree. And it bugs me! Its not Afrofuturism. Its the idea of what if an African nation came into the 21st century as a world super power but had not changed in a 1000 years!

The queen of England is not really even what we would consider a queen. She is not guarded by soldiers who actually wear plate armor and wield swords. She does not wear the fashions of her court 500 years ago. She is the epitome of England and yet she is not a caricature of her nation's past.

Wakanda is in many ways more backward than the Swiss guard!

That said my general observation is that many black South Africans are excited for the movie.Its speaks to something that hollywood has never really done before. Also the actors seem to mimic south african accents and seem to speak bantu languages. Though again it kinda grates me, its like hiring Germans to speak italian while pretending to be from Doom's latvaria.

[Dolmen 2.0]

Cause, on 13 June 2017 - 01:04 PM, said:

stone monkey, on 12 June 2017 - 07:47 PM, said:

Interesting to see some afrofuturism going on there, it's probably the first time we've ever seen a film do that.

Fantasic use of "Legend Has It" by Run the Jewels in the trailer too; to be fair though, that's probably the only part of that song they could have used, given what the rest is like. Marvel has been killing it with using hip-hop tunes appropriately in their trailers. Just look at the Luke Cage trailer and its use of "Shimmy Shimmy Ya" by ODB.

I actually disagree. And it bugs me! Its not Afrofuturism. Its the idea of what if an African nation came into the 21st century as a world super power but had not changed in a 1000 years!

The queen of England is not really even what we would consider a queen. She is not guarded by soldiers who actually wear plate armor and wield swords. She does not wear the fashions of her court 500 years ago. She is the epitome of England and yet she is not a caricature of her nation's past.

Wakanda is in many ways more backward than the Swiss guard!

That said my general observation is that many black South Africans are excited for the movie.Its speaks to something that hollywood has never really done before. Also the actors seem to mimic south african accents and seem to speak bantu languages. Though again it kinda grates me, its like hiring Germans to speak italian while pretending to be from Doom's latvaria.

Basicly this. It can be just as annoying. We are talking konnichiwa greeting directed at a chinese or korean individual levels of annoying.

The fight in johannesburg between the hulk and hulk buster armor was well placed and personally entertaining to hear and see south african mannerisms and exclamations. Sadly hollywood often tends to work hand in hand with south africa and Nigeria when it comes to african locations. I like to think this has alot to do with the strong pre-existing cinematic culture more than any selectivism or exclusionary intention.

As a result accents of supposedly central and north african actors tend towards the nigerian or the south african. I would have liked the Wakandians to adopt less of a bantu lingual accent (something common in the southern portion of africa) and attempt something Afro-french, or Afro-arabesque. Think Eriq Ebouaney and Peter Mensah interms of diction.

Wakanda is allegedly somewhere near the DRC. Youtube interviews with citizens of the country. Its easy to hear the accent and you will notice the difference in wording and speech pattern in comparison to say the speech patterns found in Botswana, Lesotho or Swaziland. All of which have their own differences in comparison to South africans, despite being intimate neighbors.

I noticed Chadwick Bosman has the bantu accent. A complete disconnect from the more appropriate central african accent provided by Djimoun Hounsou. It makes me wonder, but perhaps its unavoidable, Black Panther needs named actors to draw the crowds. The biggest names of african descent are extremely irregular.

[stone monkey]

To some extent the Queen is a carictature of the past. And have you seen the opening of Parliament? The members of the Commons literally have the door slammed in their faces when they go to hear the Queen's Speech in the House of Lords; because they're commoners. You may also wish to look at the Ceremonial Uniforms of the Household Cavalry, and also when the Knights of the Garter (of whom the Queen is one) meet up - the clothes and rituals of 500 years (or more) ago very much live on in 21st century Britain.The ceremonial past can live on in a 21st century nation.

Btw the Swiss Guard aren't just the guys with pikes and pantaloons, they're also the guys in expensive suits carrying Glocks and MP5s. In much the same way as the Coldstream Guard don't always wear red jackets and bearskin hats - sometimes they drive tanks... Arguably Marvel's vision of a Wakanda with both steel spires and tribal ritual alongside them is somewhat of a piece.

So yes, Afrofuturism.

This post has been edited by stone monkey: 13 June 2017 - 08:47 PM

[Cause]

stone monkey, on 13 June 2017 - 08:38 PM, said:

To some extent the Queen is a carictature of the past. And have you seen the opening of Parliament? The members of the Commons literally have the door slammed in their faces when they go to hear the Queen's Speech in the House of Lords; because they're commoners. You may also wish to look at the Ceremonial Uniforms of the Household Cavalry, and also when the Knights of the Garter (of whom the Queen is one) meet up - the clothes and rituals of 500 years (or more) ago very much live on in 21st century Britain.The ceremonial past can live on in a 21st century nation.

Btw the Swiss Guard aren't just the guys with pikes and pantaloons, they're also the guys in expensive suits carrying Glocks and MP5s. In much the same way as the Coldstream Guard don't always wear red jackets and bearskin hats - sometimes they drive tanks... Arguably Marvel's vision of a Wakanda with both steel spires and tribal ritual alongside them is somewhat of a piece.

So yes, Afrofuturism.

Well its hard to say exactly what is happening in the trailer but I inferred a few things from it and from what I have seen in previous movies and the cartoons.

-You can challenge the black panther to a fight to the death to become king!

-He has an all female bodygaurd that wield spears!

-The king of Wakanda is an absolute monarch! He owns practically everything in the entire country

-The king of Wakanda is also the leader of the Black Panther cult and has outlawed rival cults

To me they kept some ridiculous aspects of ancient cultures, I wont even specify African cultures, and just ran with it to be different. They have not touched the more difficult aspects of African cultures, the treatment of women, gay people etc. So we have an African nation that has somehow developed human rights, rights for women, rights for gay people but not political or religious freedom?

Supposedly they are the most technologically advanced nation on the planet? How did the advance of technology and science clash with the panther god? How did intellectual property rights clash with an absolute monarchy? I dont really expect a movie or comic to deal with any of these things but to me Wakanda comes across as a caricature of a hypothetical African nation that never suffered colonialism. Interestingly it also seemed to not care to help its neighbors fight colonialism.

In the trailer I saw Ndebele art, Sotho influences (I know these ones because they live in South Africa). The lip disc is from another African culture, one in Ethopia I think. There must be a dozen African cultures represented. They just plundered the whole continent for cool stuff.

Its nitpicking I guess but that was my first reaction to it.

Also as to your point. The queens role is mostly ceremonial, the royal guard has a ceremonial unifrom but otherwise they drive scimitar tanks. The Swiss guard would drop their halbreds for their SMGs if the pope was really under attack. The trailer seems to play these things straight.

[Tsundoku]

Cause, on 13 June 2017 - 11:43 PM, said:

I dont really expect a movie or comic to deal with any of these things but to me Wakanda comes across as a caricature of a hypothetical African nation that never suffered colonialism. Interestingly it also seemed to not care to help its neighbors fight colonialism.

Why should Wakanda be exempt from "I'm OK, Fuck You"-ism? They may be technologically advanced, but they're still human. And quite nationalistic at that.

[Dolmen 2.0]

Whose to know what a Sans Colonial African society would really look like?

Without the opportunity to naturally develop dominant internal hierarchies among the nations around today Africa didn't get a chance to stabilize human rights but that definitely doesn't mean these issues did not get addressed and were not positively responded to in some way or form.

I think whilst its an idealized vision, a hypothetical real world Wakanda would be a blending pot of many cultures in Africa with the idea Wakanda would actively trade and engage with the rest of the continent as time progressed, ideally borrowing the best from said cultures and through a process of elimination removing the bad cultures and traditions inherent in themselves. Black Panther actively discusses this ethic with his general I think? I can't remember but I think the process of self correction and social improvement is not exclusive and would come about as soon as people worked out how beneficial inclusive societies are. it wouldn't be perfect but what human rights situation is?

The fact T'challa is an absolute monarch means were his line so enlightened and inclined (which they tend to be) he could easily speed up the development of his nation with the outrageous wealth the city inherits from the vibranium mines.

Such a sweet deal could make the chafe of monarchy less difficult to bear and could sustain a kingdom faaar longer if a religion were in place (which there is) to ensure responsible, intelligent and Militarily competent rulers.

[Cause]

Dolmen 2.0, on 14 June 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

Whose to know what a Sans Colonial African society would really look like?

Without the opportunity to naturally develop dominant internal hierarchies among the nations around today Africa didn't get a chance to stabilize human rights but that definitely doesn't mean these issues did not get addressed and were not positively responded to in some way or form.

I think whilst its an idealized vision, a hypothetical real world Wakanda would be a blending pot of many cultures in Africa with the idea Wakanda would actively trade and engage with the rest of the continent as time progressed, ideally borrowing the best from said cultures and through a process of elimination removing the bad cultures and traditions inherent in themselves. Black Panther actively discusses this ethic with his general I think? I can't remember but I think the process of self correction and social improvement is not exclusive and would come about as soon as people worked out how beneficial inclusive societies are. it wouldn't be perfect but what human rights situation is?

The fact T'challa is an absolute monarch means were his line so enlightened and inclined (which they tend to be) he could easily speed up the development of his nation with the outrageous wealth the city inherits from the vibranium mines.

Such a sweet deal could make the chafe of monarchy less difficult to bear and could sustain a kingdom faaar longer if a religion were in place (which there is) to ensure responsible, intelligent and Militarily competent rulers.

This is getting a bit heavy for a thread based on a movie trailer. Perhaps we should move it if we are gonna go into it.

Okay, first off I am in no way implying that black people would not develop human rights on their own. I believe instead that they would for certain have done so! My point is that the advancement of human rights creates massive social upheaval and is accompanied by changes. The French revolution, the civil war in England between the parliamentarians and royals. I would say that history to me suggests that human rights and absolute monarchies are incompatible. The advance of civilization took Millenia. Wakanda to me is the idea of what if an African tribe become a world super power but skipped all the intervening steps. Their reformation, their enlightenment, their industrial revolution, their civil rights movements. Of course just because it happened this way once does not mean it must always happen the same way.

Are the Wakandans so isolationist that they would ignore white people enslaving their neighbors and hiding their wealth and power but still becoming a melting pot of African cultures. Which is it.

I am not offended by it. Despite my repeated comments I actually dont even feel that strongly about it. I just dont necessarily think its all positive. I think its replete with stereotypes. I think by mixing all of Africa together they made the common mistake of portraying all black people as the same culture or people. Would Latvaria have been shown as a hodegpod of french, italian, german and english culture? I see it getting a lot of praise as a big budget movie targeted at black people. Its not the first but its rare enough to be significant and yet I think it could have been handled better.

[stone monkey]

They did show Sokovia as generically Eastern European; and there's a lot of ground to cover there...

This post has been edited by stone monkey: 14 June 2017 - 08:50 PM

[Illuyankas]

Hahahaha, trying to think of a country which doesn't have its own language but uses others (albeit with its own dialect) I came up with one example of what I'm talking about, however in writing the phrase "Clearly Wakanda is the African Belgium" I sort of reminded myself that the Belgian Congo was a thing and now this is a little awkward