[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 3. 9 hours and 11 minutes remaining

9 Players still alive: Alkend, Gamelon, Hanas, Iparth Erule, Kaschan, Mockra, Okaros, Serc, Trake

5 votes to lynch, 5 votes to go to night.

4 Votes for Hanas ( Gamelon, Trake, Serc, Okaros )
2 Votes for Gamelon ( Hanas, Mockra )

Players not voted: Alkend, Iparth Erule, Kaschan

[Alkend]

Quote

Gamelon tried to recruit Hanas and failed. Now he thinks Hanas is the other recruiter.

This is what I currently suspect happened, but still need to summarize my thoughts.

[Okaros]

Alkend, on 13 March 2017 - 04:45 PM, said:

Quote

Gamelon tried to recruit Hanas and failed. Now he thinks Hanas is the other recruiter.

This is what I currently suspect happened, but still need to summarize my thoughts.

Then why would Hanas claim Veronica Day, as I doubt she would be recruit proof.

[Alkend]

I assume they wouldn't know someone tried to recruit them.

[Alkend]

Throughout D2, Hanas tries poking here and there, but then decides to go after Mockra:

Hanas, on 08 March 2017 - 05:43 PM, said:

So yeah, I've gone back through all of Okaros's posts yesterday and while he's very clear that if he is recruited, no CF will be given by PS on thread, it doesn't mention at what point that behaviour starts. I'm not sure we can assume that Okaros wasn't recruited last night because we got a CF of the NKed player.

(I should be clear that it doesn't follow that we should just assume he has been recruited, just that I am not going to take his word that last night's CF confirms his towniness).

Hanas, on 08 March 2017 - 06:28 PM, said:

Trake, on 08 March 2017 - 05:14 PM, said:

Now I'm tempted towards Bek again.

This sort of open flip-flopping pings my scumdar. My post was all it took to swing you from Serc to BO, huh? You sound like the wishy-washy scum who is blown by the wind to whatever 'convinces' you at that moment in time.

EDIT: X-post

Hanas, on 08 March 2017 - 08:11 PM, said:

Mockra, on 08 March 2017 - 04:50 PM, said:

Alkend, on 08 March 2017 - 03:51 PM, said:

I'm interested in the no-voters - Mockra and Serc. Why did you two hold your votes?

Mockra has also coasted in a similar fashion to IE, which as I said before makes sense for a lone cultist recruiter on D1.

As for the kill, I suspect an overzealous vig. Even if cult leaders can either kill or recruit, why would they choose to kill on N1? And why not Okaros, given the circumstances? Ah, nothing like some faction WIFOM.

Because I figured day 1, we were more likely to hit town. As I mentioned yesterday, since the recruiters were on their own, there was no following or defending to watch at that point.

In a normal town vs scum game, suggesting no-lynch on Night 1 is stupid. Why is that any different here? We've got to find and lynch the leaders of both cults to stand a chance of winning. A no-lynch just means we have one fewer opportunity to do that. Yeah there's a chance we hit town, but so what? That's the same as in any game of Mafia.

Mockra, on 08 March 2017 - 06:27 PM, said:

Okaros, on 08 March 2017 - 06:22 PM, said:

So the only way to win this game is lynching cult and you purposefully witholding your vote makes you suspect.

Oh? You knew who was cult day 1? Game over.

vote Okaros

You are not helping town, therefore you must be cult.

So by that logic, any mistake made by a town player proof of them being scum (since they aren't helping with their play). What a ridiculous logical leap.

I don't think Okaros is hurting town much with his play today. There's been a whole host of interesting reactions to him on thread - he gives us something to talk about beyond role spec. The fact that you're trying to make 'annoying' equal 'scummy' doesn't sit well with me.

I don't like the way Mockra is playing here at all.

Vote Mockra

Hanas, on 08 March 2017 - 09:08 PM, said:

Pfff, this game isn't that different. We have a finite number of shots to get rid of both leaders, and that's got to come from lynching unless Serc has a few more vigs up his sleeves. The chance of being wrong is the price we pay for the shot at taking down the scum, and that's as true in games with two cults as it is in a traditional town vs paired killers setup. Connections are nice, but at the end of the day you're lynching for the chance to kill your enemy.

While I don't necessarily agree with the reasoning - I can see merit in kicking off without a lynch in a cult game - Mockra did ping my radar before the whole Hanas/Gamelon debacle, so I can see some sense here.

[Mockra]

Back. Let me get caught up.

[Iparth Erule]

Back but not managed to do a re-read at all nor make notes.

I want to lynch Gamelon because they're either recruiter/d or they're town begging to be recruited which is counter to towns interest.

That is of course ignoring the Veronica shit which I really should catch up on

[Alkend]

Oooooh that is interesting, finally something.

Hanas, on 09 March 2017 - 11:54 AM, said:

Ah, I suppose Gamelon could be your master as well, the way you left him off all your lists. Seems like a pretty terrible way of trying to keep the limelight off them (because of course people are going to notice), but I guess it's possible.

First, this seemingly off-handed remark by Hanas. They mention that Gamelon is a likely recruiter. Gamelon does post later in D2, but never addresses this and completely ignores Hanas throughout the rest of the day, to drop the reveal first thing D3. I find this quite suspicious.

Then, this:

Hanas, on 09 March 2017 - 12:19 PM, said:

Okaros, on 09 March 2017 - 11:59 AM, said:

Hanas, on 09 March 2017 - 11:54 AM, said:

Ah, I suppose Gamelon could be your master as well, the way you left him off all your lists. Seems like a pretty terrible way of trying to keep the limelight off them (because of course people are going to notice), but I guess it's possible.

Are you saying I am wrong? I would usually agree with you regarding the speculation but not this game. If all those roles are in the game then it leaves a small place for the recruiters to hide.

You are wrong in your guess that Trake and I are lovers. That's not the case and it's why I think you might be trying to hide the possibility of Trake being a recruiter.

If you were town, then I would have expected you to run through this kind of logic by yourself and then post the results of it on thread, leaving out details that should probably be kept to yourself. You could have said: "I have done some re-reads and think the recruiters are probably in this pool of players" and communicated the same message without vomiting role spec everywhere. But instead you're spewing out hypotheses that scum can seize upon to push their own agendas.

Hanas, who has been playing rather cool throughout the game, gets particularly touchy and annoyed at Okaros for suggesting they might have a Lover role. At that point in the game it didn't have much significance, but now it gives some credence to the D3 reveal.

[Mockra]

Damnit, I typed a post and my battery died.

So I reread the reveals as well as the weekend posts, and I still feel like Gamelon is a recruiter. First of all, two finders in one game seems like overkill. I think
Hanas' reveal that he can open lover conversations sounds more believable. I suspect this scared Gamelon, hence the attack. It also sounds like there is some resistance to aGame in Gamelon lynch.

I'd like a lynch, but I think there is still a chance that Hanas is town.

Edit: fixed spell check

This post has been edited by Mockra: 13 March 2017 - 07:43 PM

[Gamelon]

I was supposed to respond to Okaros leaving me off his suspect list?

Okay, fine. Check posts 248 and 259.

I read them, apparently no one else did, given the number of people asking Okaros the exact same question.

[Gamelon]

Iparth Erule, on 13 March 2017 - 07:19 PM, said:

Back but not managed to do a re-read at all nor make notes.

I want to lynch Gamelon because they're either recruiter/d or they're town begging to be recruited which is counter to towns interest.

That is of course ignoring the Veronica shit which I really should catch up on

Actually, no.

I'm warning town to kill me before I can get recruited. Which is the best I can do under the circumstances to help town- by sabotaging cult depriving them of the benefit they'll get when I'm recruited. (Nevermind the fact that I also pointed you out who a recruiter is)

Edited to fix underline tag

This post has been edited by Gamelon: 13 March 2017 - 07:45 PM

[Gamelon]

Basically I feel my job as a finder is done now.

If IE and Alkend decide to make it a stalemate and we get to timeout, I'll pull a JPK with a sense of a job well done.

[Hanas]

I've got to take my hat off to Gamelon, because he's doing a good job of sticking to his story. But I'm surprised people are going for all this 'I have a super-complicated role that you need to NK so I don't end up cult' stuff. I don't know about the rest of you, but my role PM isn't all that complicated (beyond the way it changes upon recruitment, I guess. You don't get that in normal games).

Have a think about whether your own roles are as complex as Gamelon is claiming and I'd hope you'd see that his claim is a bit farfetched. Either that or I got the only straightforward role of the lot, I suppose, in which case fair play to him.

[Alkend]

Okay, finally arrived at the reveals. Not gonna do nested quotes because it would be unreadable.

This is the sequence of events:
* Gam reveals Finder, fingers Hanas
* Hanas reveals Gossip, countervotes
* Hanas claims they opened lover convos with Bek Okhan and Gamelon, a corpse and an alleged recruiter. Super far fetched.
* Gam decides to claim something even more ludicrous and says Gossip = Finder. Effectively counterclaims Hanas.
* At L-2, Gam goes the JPK route of resigning themselves to a lynch. In a very JPK style, it turns the tide.

Hanas didn't really appear high on my potential recruiter list, but now that I've re-read them, I'm much less convinced. However, I just don't buy Gamelon's Finder reveal. Judging from the descriptions, PI looks like the Finder and it's very convenient to claim a role of someone who's dead if we don't have a definitive proof of what that role does. It's even more convenient to counterclaim the person who you're fingering as a cultist. What are the odds?

Now, a bit of WIFOM. I assume (this might be way off, but hey, WIFOM) that when a cult leader recruits, they learn the identity of their recruit. If Hanas was the recruiter and needed to fake reveal to counter Gam's bombshell, wouldn't they just choose to reveal as their recruit? Why even risk being countered - if indeed Hanas was a recruiter and Gamelon a Finder, how would Hanas have guessed Gamelon's role?

So, what I think has happened: Hanas hinted at Gamelon being a possible recruiter. Gamelon didn't react to that on-thread, but tried to recruit Hanas at Night to mitigate the risk. Recruitment failed, so Gamelon jumped to the conclusion that Hanas is the other recruiter and decided to act quickly. This gives us two possibilities:
* Gamelon is right and they're both recruiters
* Gamelon was guarded and that's why their recruitment failed.

In each scenario Gam is a recruiter, so I'm going to

vote Gamelon

[Serc]

I'm willing to switch to Gam, but I think Hanas is the likelier leader. I'm going to leave my vote where it is for now in case someone decides to hammer there. If we have someone add onto the Gam train, I'll hop over to hammer. Either of the two lynches will answer a lot of questions.

[Gamelon]

Of the remaining 3 suspects for the second recruiter, I've narrowed it down to

Trake:50%
Mockra:40%
IE: 10%

Make of that what you will.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 3. 4 hours and 47 minutes remaining

9 Players still alive: Alkend, Gamelon, Hanas, Iparth Erule, Kaschan, Mockra, Okaros, Serc, Trake

5 votes to lynch, 5 votes to go to night.

4 Votes for Hanas ( Gamelon, Trake, Serc, Okaros )
3 Votes for Gamelon ( Hanas, Mockra, Alkend )

Players not voted: Iparth Erule, Kaschan

[Gamelon]

Leaving work now.

Day times out roughly 930 EST.

Serc, be around on that time, if nothing else, we'll get my CF.

[Iparth Erule]

Gamelon, on 13 March 2017 - 09:11 PM, said:

Serc, be around on that time, if nothing else, we'll get my CF.

We'll also get your alignment.

Unless you're confident our Coroner will be recruited...

Vote Gamlelon

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 3. 4 hours and 16 minutes remaining

9 Players still alive: Alkend, Gamelon, Hanas, Iparth Erule, Kaschan, Mockra, Okaros, Serc, Trake

5 votes to lynch, 5 votes to go to night.

4 Votes for Hanas ( Gamelon, Trake, Serc, Okaros )
4 Votes for Gamelon ( Hanas, Mockra, Alkend, Iparth Erule )

Players not voted: Kaschan