[JPK]

Tattersail_, on 28 February 2017 - 12:34 PM, said:

...something Ando, Siergiej, Nom, JPK, and others need to learn. Pushing a case, getting their target eliminated when town. Not being scared of being wrong.

That's actually something I've been working on. The problem that I've developed is av willingness to die as RI when I'm targeted for bullshit on day 1. I'd rather see myself removed and let people dig through those that were willing to line up on me for senseless bullshit. This game I made a case (albeit not a particularly strong one) to try to get someone else lynched instead.

From this point I'm working on four main things:
1- building more logical cases and voting worth my head instead of my gut.
2- not being afraid to hound a target if I've decided that chances are strong that they're scum.
3- not being willing to die as RI on day one without putting up much more of a fight.

4- not being as easily intimidated when pushing and experiencing pushback from more experienced players.

[Path-Shaper]

I think SiergieJ would likely follow him. Now can Ment convince Bubba or Mac?

[Path-Shaper]

Macros, on 28 February 2017 - 09:56 PM, said:

Oh duh.
Blend


Ok
In case we actually catch a killer

Heal bubba
If lynched
Heal HD

Edit: GO MENT!!

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 28 February 2017 - 09:59 PM

[Path-Shaper]

Macros, on 28 February 2017 - 09:58 PM, said:

Nope.
No sale ment

vote mentalist

[Tattersail_]

I hope he sticks to it.

[Andorion]

Damn... I guess I should have stuck with that earlier gut feeling about Ment

[Sir Thursday]

JPK, on 28 February 2017 - 09:52 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 28 February 2017 - 12:34 PM, said:

...something Ando, Siergiej, Nom, JPK, and others need to learn. Pushing a case, getting their target eliminated when town. Not being scared of being wrong.

That's actually something I've been working on. The problem that I've developed is av willingness to die as RI when I'm targeted for bullshit on day 1. I'd rather see myself removed and let people dig through those that were willing to line up on me for senseless bullshit. This game I made a case (albeit not a particularly strong one) to try to get someone else lynched instead.

From this point I'm working on four main things:
1- building more logical cases and voting worth my head instead of my gut.
2- not being afraid to hound a target if I've decided that chances are strong that they're scum.
3- not being willing to die as RI on day one without putting up much more of a fight.

4- not being as easily intimidated when pushing and experiencing pushback from more experienced players.

That willingness to die early on is something I've noticed from you in the games I've played in/watched recently. It might be instructive to think about how Khell played this one.

Khell was put in the position of being under immediate threat of lynching with multiple votes on him. But he didn't lie down and take it - instead he went looking for other options. In this instance he was roled, but IMO if he were RI he should still have played it the same way. By building a case on another player (in this instance, you) he made sure that there were two lynch trains, and that meant that town got a lot more information out of the day than they might otherwise have done.

When you present multiple option for a lynch, you force all the players on thread to make a choice about who to vote for. One of the major things that separate scum from town is that scum players have strong reasons to avoid letting certain alts getting lynched (killers don't want to let their partners die, symps are trying to protect masters). Sometimes you can spot scum because of this, but only if you put them in positions where they have to make choices. This game was a good example of this phenomenon - on Day 1 there were two trains and the killers needed to decide which to be on, and that left telltale signs (Bubba noticed how wishy-washy HD was being about picking a side, for example). Town has so far been unable to capitalise on them, but that's because they've been playing terribly since the weekend break (Day 4 was awful for town). The information was there for them to spot!

In my opinion, the only time you should roll over and accept a lynch as RI are when you can see that if they don't lynch you, town will be unable to lynch anyone else that day. Prior to that you should be doing everything in your power to make sure that someone else is lynched instead, including trying to make sure that the circumstances in which you have to accept lynching never come to pass. A key part of that is doing your work early - there need to be multiple viable lynch trains at the end of the day if you want to be able to convince people to switch to someone else. The only way that happens if you make your cases early enough in the day that people have time to read them and vote on them.

(Sorry for going on a bit of a rant - I find Mafia tactics/theory really interesting and I've always thought we don't do enough talking about them here)

ST

[Tattersail_]

I like ST's response to you there. If multiple people are mentioning you at the beginning of the day and there is not much activity then you will also be the fall guy just because nothing else is on the table. Mostly your theories will be wrong, but having that opinion will provoke reactions by other players. I am still learning to be a sheep, I try too often to be a lone wolf it hurts town. So people may have noticed the last few games that I am more agreeable and not pointing at silly things. That is part of my play style but everyone learns something new each game.

[Path-Shaper]

ST here, popping into PS to do a PM dump.

Killers first:

HoosierDaddy, on 28 February 2017 - 02:00 AM, said:

Mentalist, on 24 February 2017 - 07:52 PM, said:

So now we need to get a low-poster lynched, while also keeping you from dying. FML.

10:1, sierg is gonna look at me now,

Fuuuuuuuck

Nah, looking at me. Hasn't voted yet but it's on its way.

HoosierDaddy, on 28 February 2017 - 02:04 AM, said:

We have possible targets in Mac, Siergjegjgegj, and possibly Blend if we want to nuke our symp.

Mac and Siergj will put up a good fight. But, so will I. It's the same case over and over with just the player count changing. It's not sustainable outside my own case but I've already tried that on Siergj. I can go back there. Set the seeds with his wishy-washy list people he MIGHT vote for. At least when I vote, I vote.

That's without realizing what happened Thursday and Friday as I was out of it.

HoosierDaddy, on 28 February 2017 - 02:18 AM, said:

FYI: PS, please don't use whatever reasoning you did to name the last PS update. It had me Ment and Blend right away. In no order.

Mentalist, on 28 February 2017 - 02:53 AM, said:

Next to nothing happened Fri, b/c we were waiting for khell to finish his magnum opus re-read, and then Mess hammered him before he could give us his conclusions.


I'm only gonna get home @ 11 PM, and I gotta prep for a hearing that's tomorrow morning. FML. I'm not gonna be any help tonight.

HoosierDaddy, on 28 February 2017 - 03:07 AM, said:

You're fine. I can bullshit til the cows come home for a while. I like little phrases like Empathy isn't Apathy. Lol.

Get your shit done tomorrow. I'll be on thread in and out while working. Couple of specific things need done. Any particular line you'd like me to take? I haven't really done a read on you in thread. Point out a couple of your "shady" posts and I can bring those up for shits and giggles.

Bubba has played as shady as we have, imho. Caseable if you can research his posts.

Mentalist, on 28 February 2017 - 03:13 AM, said:

Eh, I've been humping Sierg hard, but it's best if you don't mention it unless last resort. Ideally, we want someone to be a little keener, point it out and train Sierg without me being involved.

Beyond that, there's that post sierg quoted where I correct blend about you and the khell train- you could say that I'm strawmanning you not understanding the train with not agreeing with it, but that's neither here nor there.

For the most part, they all seem to ignore my existance, so I'm hard-pressed to think of anything really self-incriminating.

HoosierDaddy, on 28 February 2017 - 03:21 AM, said:

'Cause you are slippy and slimy!!!!!!!

You'd have to point out the second one. I don't remember. Siergj calling something calling something?

Mentalist, on 28 February 2017 - 03:32 AM, said:

post 1001.... Sierg is quoting it in post 1053

Do you guys have provisionals?

HoosierDaddy, on 28 February 2017 - 04:05 PM, said:

Provisional on Ando until Ment comes around and makes it a better choice.

Mentalist, on 28 February 2017 - 04:08 PM, said:

I was just thinking about those. Hopefully our symp is still around and we won't need those. I'll have a better idea once I do a read-up and come up with a gameplan for this lynch.

Mentalist, on 28 February 2017 - 06:08 PM, said:

At this point only person I'm fairly confident isn't symping us is Ando.

The fact that no one is looking at me, and that most of them are giving you a pass is actually working against us right now.

We can lynch Blend, and that could be game, if Mac or Bubba is the symp.

However, it's more likely that it's Blend.

I'm having second thoughts about maccy, but he's also being quiet as fuck, and it worries me, because I can't read if town or scum.

I'm leaning towards NKing Ando, unless he is lynched.

If Ando ends up lynched, we should NK Maccy.

Mentalist, on 28 February 2017 - 06:49 PM, said:

If Ando ends up lynched:

If maccy voted HD, NK mac
If maccy voted Ando, NK bubba.

(This applies to any votes cast from this point, in case there's a lynch before I'm back to revise)

Right... so NK HD. ;-)

Mentalist, on 28 February 2017 - 07:10 PM, said:

Or just wait for me to get back, lol.

Our client is running late, so I'm watching the thread like a hawk.

Basically waiting to see who blinks first closer to timeout.

Mentalist, on 28 February 2017 - 07:57 PM, said:

If Ando not lynched, NK him.

If he is lynched, NK Bubba.

Final order. For now.

Mentalist, on 28 February 2017 - 08:23 PM, said:

Huh. Ze moment of truth? There better be a happy win scene coming.

HoosierDaddy, on 28 February 2017 - 08:24 PM, said:

Huh, I thought time out was around 4. My bad.

HoosierDaddy, on 28 February 2017 - 08:34 PM, said:

We killed or lynched our symp. Sigh.

(I love it when scum get all over confident and think they've won too early )

[Path-Shaper]

More killers:

Mentalist, on 28 February 2017 - 08:38 PM, said:

With our exceptional luck, it was probably Tatts on Night 1.

Well, no more play-faking. Now we gotta go for tthe jugular. Maybe attack Sierg?

HoosierDaddy, on 28 February 2017 - 08:39 PM, said:

Successful lynch and kill and we are good.

I'll be on tonight to add to the convo.

Mentalist, on 28 February 2017 - 09:53 PM, said:

Hrm. I'm breaking my mold for this game and starting a train. But I'm gonna try to play it off as frustration.

But it's thin ice and I'm expecting questions of "well, why did you not vote for Blend yesterday then?"

Mac's gut is zeroed in on me, and it's a good thing he's been restraining himself. We have to win now, just to hear his epic meltdown rant for not going with his gut.

Mentalist, on 28 February 2017 - 11:54 PM, said:

yessssss, I convinced Sierg.

Now we need Bubba to play along, and have you hammer.

Mentalist, on 01 March 2017 - 12:12 AM, said:

in the alternative, you can put a vote on Sierg. if mac and Bubba jump on it, I'll hammer.

[Path-Shaper]

Mac the healer:

Macros, on 28 February 2017 - 09:54 PM, said:

Shit me.

Shoulda protected ando after all.

If blend is a killer hats off to him for the most outrageous approach in the history of mafia killers.
I do the think he is.

I think it's either a passive HD/bubba paired up with either sergjie/ment

Who else is playing. I can't think of the sixth player

Macros, on 28 February 2017 - 09:56 PM, said:

Oh duh.
Blend


Ok
In case we actually catch a killer

Heal bubba
If lynched
Heal HD

[Path-Shaper]

And Mentalist in non-lover-conversation thoughts:

Mentalist, on 28 February 2017 - 06:19 PM, said:

My paranoia is spiking right now, but the sad truth is most likel that tatts was the symp and we killed him Night 1

[Sir Thursday]

Blend will probably side with Macros because it will avoid a train on him (if he doesn't, then it'll cap off what has been a terrible, terrible game from him). So it comes down to whether Macros can get Bubba and Siergiej on side. Right now it's looking like it'll be a fight to convince Siergiej (Macros may have misstepped by saying he was considering switching to vote for Sierg, but then I guess he thinks Sierg is probably Ment's partner), so I'm not optimistic about town's chances here. What a difference a no-lynch day makes...

Town have one possible backup to stop themselves from losing this game - if they end up lynching Blend, Macros might be able to save town's bacon with a correct heal and give them another shot. Right now his heal is on Bubba...I don't know if that's going to be their target though. Suspect they'd be more likely just to kill off Macros himself (for which there is no defence).

ST

[Khellendros]

Haha, Blend has actually now outright stated that he's suspicious of everyone EXCEPT the two killers

[Khellendros]

JPK, on 28 February 2017 - 09:52 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 28 February 2017 - 12:34 PM, said:

...something Ando, Siergiej, Nom, JPK, and others need to learn. Pushing a case, getting their target eliminated when town. Not being scared of being wrong.

That's actually something I've been working on. The problem that I've developed is av willingness to die as RI when I'm targeted for bullshit on day 1. I'd rather see myself removed and let people dig through those that were willing to line up on me for senseless bullshit. This game I made a case (albeit not a particularly strong one) to try to get someone else lynched instead.

From this point I'm working on four main things:
1- building more logical cases and voting worth my head instead of my gut.
2- not being afraid to hound a target if I've decided that chances are strong that they're scum.
3- not being willing to die as RI on day one without putting up much more of a fight.

4- not being as easily intimidated when pushing and experiencing pushback from more experienced players.

I'll echo pretty much what ST has already said.

The best way to fight off a case against yourself is, rather than defending yourself (which is just your word against theirs, and also allows others to yell 'suspicious!' at the fact that you dare to try and defend yourself), to make a case on someone else. As ST said, give people an alternative - something to vote for, rather than telling them what they can't vote for.

You were doing well this game until you started mimicking Blend, which went against your point number 1 up there.

While self-votes do have their uses (for example, if there clearly isn't going to be a lynch and town needs it for info) they also more often give scum an easy excuse for staying off lynch trains. Make them have to get their hands dirty.

Never give up, never surrender (except on certain contextually-specific occasions)!

[Path-Shaper]

FFS... Blend SOUNDS scummy. I suspect SiergieJ will bring his vote back down on him.

[Tattersail_]

Fuck sake, how to lose a mafia game by Blend.

[Sir Thursday]

Blend, on 01 March 2017 - 03:27 PM, said:

HoosierDaddy, on 01 March 2017 - 01:08 AM, said:

Either way, I'd like him to explain what he was thinking.

I literally just wanted to get Khell lynched. There were no ulterior motives, no "town" play or "scum" play, I just wanted to LYNCH KHELL.

I got what I wanted, so even if we lose this game, I'll still come out a winner, and I'm okay with that!

Maybe everyone should make a point of calling Blend a loser after the game, just to hammer the point home that his actions in this game meant that his team lost. He certainly deserves it after hijacking two weeks of everyone's time to hand scum a win.

I'm not the sort of person who keeps lists, but if I were then this performance would put Blend on it for the foreseeable future.

ST

[Tattersail_]

REMOVE YOUR VOTE SIERGIEJ, TAKE AWAY THE HEART AND USE THE MIND.


I AM SENDING THIS VIA TELEPATHY.

[Sir Thursday]

This is making me angry just watching, I can't imagine how awful it must feel to actually be playing in this game and see someone with such callous disregard for their teammates as Blend is displaying here.

ST

This post has been edited by Sir Thursday: 01 March 2017 - 04:08 PM