[Ultama]

Hope everyone had a good weekend. I'm reading up now. So far I've noticed that Lock and Fandy have been rather active in their back and forth and that Kaschan still had an uneasy feeling about me.

I'll be back once I've actually read instead of skimmed.

[Ultama]

So my first thought is that Omtose is not the right one to be chasing. Mainly because Kesso dropped their second vote on him before the train built up. I don't think that when town had so little going in early day one that Kesso would have tried to draw attention to a low-poster partner like that. Even as an attempt at distancing.

Kessobahn, on 11 January 2017 - 04:59 PM, said:

Let's hear something from the lower end of the table shall we.

Vote Omtose

Is it just me, or is that particular alt always at the bottom of the pile?

[Okaros]

Ok, so this is the problem that I have with low-poster/low-content witch hunts - you vote them because they're not around, and then when they up their content we call that scummy too.

Lock, on 16 January 2017 - 07:08 PM, said:

Fanderay, on 16 January 2017 - 07:02 PM, said:

I've responded to most posts/questions that have directed to me all game, while YOU have posted more in the last few hours then the last several days combined. If anyone is getting jumpy it would be you.

To be rather honest here, I posted about as much in the last few hours as I did when Telas and I had our back and forth during Day 2 about this. *shrugs*

I don't think it's jumpy to participate when I have the time to participate. Which I did, when I had time to do it. I've made my points, pointed out things that I felt needed to be pointed out, and in no way denied that I've had less than stellar attendance this game. It happens. It also happens to be a poor reason to vote for someone, imho. I mean, you're going to lynch me, and if I turn up scum, then congrats, you've won the game. I won't, though, and now you'll get just about zero information from my lynch. Whereas a lynch on someone like you, who has ruffled feathers, and done some outright scummy things, and had folks actually making cases against you / analyzing your play, well, a wellspring of information there if you don't end up CFing scum, which I'm very doubtful of anyway.

And when Lock does eventually share their thoughts, Fanderay uses their low posting to try to discredit them, and claims that Lock is 'parroting' what other people have said, rather than actually engaging with the case.

Fanderay, on 16 January 2017 - 06:10 PM, said:

Lock, on 16 January 2017 - 05:59 PM, said:

I'm noticing that almost everyone said "either Fanderay or Serc are scum" during the previous Day... But now that Serc has come up RI, it doesn't seem like anyone cares about Fanderay at all...

Of course, my not being around as much as I'd like certainly contributes to that.

Telas is almost definitely town in my eyes - it's usually dangerous for scum to commit so strongly to a lynch to a point where it seems they have blinders on. Certainly my 'coasting' should not have been ignored. But he constantly pushed that my lynch would be smarter than any of the lynches that were made based on actual cases beyond the "well he hasn't said much" thing.

Fanderay seems scummiest to me, based on the couple of posts I pulled above, and the general feelings of the thread yesterday. Also this:

Fanderay, on 13 January 2017 - 03:16 PM, said:

You are trying a bit hard to rally everyone against me.

Is a pretty scummy post in my eyes... It's a great way to cast doubt on someone without overtly accusing them of anything besides trying hard.

And also this:

Omtose, on 16 January 2017 - 05:22 PM, said:

I want to point out that Fanderay started today by going after the only person on thread she knew she would not be alone in attacking.She is trying to create another distraction.

vote Fanderay


I mean, it seems likely that you'll be lynching me today just so that you don't have to continue the "is Lock coasting scum" argument, and I'm fine with that for those reasons, at least it will be put to rest, but for the love of the gods, please have a serious look at Fanderay. I think of those left, he's certainly the most likely to be scum, and many of you have even said that yourselves when comparing him to Serc pre-lynch.

So after posting nothing all game, you basically parrot what others have said, and don't really build a case other than "well other people thought she was scummy" and "since Serc CFd town, then Fanderay must be scum".

You aren't overwhelming me with a logical case. I'm only guilty of being one of the higher posters this game by trying to get people to start talking on day 1. I've also voted and made my opinions clear. That behavior makes absolutely no sense for a scum player that is already down their partner, with 7 players still alive.

You have latched onto Omtose's comment, which may also be interpreted as a defense of you since several of us have mentioned that you have coasted too long.

Fanderay, on 16 January 2017 - 07:02 PM, said:

Lock, on 16 January 2017 - 06:58 PM, said:

(Snipped symp speculation)

An argument can be made that not all mods will reveal that there's a symp, but a mod will ALWAYS reveal if there are town roles, and Siergiej did nothing of the sort. Not to belabour this, but I think Fandy's just trying to find any way to cast a shadow of doubt on any case against him. I mean, I'm the person everyone is least likely to listen to today due to my inactivity, and yet he got pretty jumpy the moment I started making a case against him, even though he's one of the people who were poking me and trying to get me to actually participate.

I've responded to most posts/questions that have directed to me all game, while YOU have posted more in the last few hours then the last several days combined. If anyone is getting jumpy it would be you.

Pretty much all arguments that amount to 'scum wouldn't play the way I have been because reasons' ping my scumdar, and they're all WIFOM in any case. I've seen scum sit in the highest post sections and cruise to victory by directing the thread and looking like helpful townies, and this looks like what Fanderay is trying to do.

Omtose, on 16 January 2017 - 05:22 PM, said:

I want to point out that Fanderay started today by going after the only person on thread she knew she would not be alone in attacking.She is trying to create another distraction.

This is also an excellent point.

It's not yet enough to vote on, but I'll go back through Fanderay's posts when I have a bit more time, and also look at a few other people.

[Telas]

I am also going to need to re-read Fanderay, but that won't happen until I'm back home (and I have an after-work shindig planned tonight).

So it'll happen, but close to timeout.

I do like that Lock stepped up their game. But the fact that they are focusing solely on Fandy, whom Omtose kinda tried to set up to be today's lynch yesterday, is worrying. (Ofc, given how focused I was on him, I'm not the one to talk).

Ultama and Okaros are falling in my blindspot, and that's not necessarily a good thing.

[Lock]

Telas, on 16 January 2017 - 08:33 PM, said:

I am also going to need to re-read Fanderay, but that won't happen until I'm back home (and I have an after-work shindig planned tonight).

So it'll happen, but close to timeout.

I do like that Lock stepped up their game. But the fact that they are focusing solely on Fandy, whom Omtose kinda tried to set up to be today's lynch yesterday, is worrying. (Ofc, given how focused I was on him, I'm not the one to talk).

Ultama and Okaros are falling in my blindspot, and that's not necessarily a good thing.

Ultama, in my opinion, has been pretty helpful and always has an opinion to share. He certainly hasn't done anything that stood out to me as particularly scummy.


There's something about Okaros that rubs me the wrong way, but I can't quite put my finger on it. If I had to vote for someone other than Fanderay, it'd probably be Okaros.

[Fanderay]

Path-Shaper, on 13 January 2017 - 07:41 PM, said:

'Tis a lynch!Players not voted: Okaros, Lock1 Omtose: Serc5 Serc: Omtose, Kaschan, Fanderay, Ultama, TelasSerc has been lynched! He was Kruppe and RI.

Omtose, on 13 January 2017 - 07:49 PM, said:

No NK?Interesting.

now that everyone has checked in since the freeze, can we also look at the elephant in the room?

why no nk?

i see 3 possible explanations:

1) The killer was guarded
2) The killer didnt have a provisional and didnt get their order in
3) The killer decided to withold their kill

Since no one is making any claims, and it would be a big gamble to withold a kill when scum is looking at either 1:6 or 2:5 numbers, I think it was most likely someone that wasn't around.

Anyways, that is the final reason why i started leaning Lock. I just wanted to wait on other check ins first.

[Lock]

Although I found an Okaros post that I find interesting:

Okaros, on 11 January 2017 - 10:29 PM, said:

I can't understand any of this post, is it just me?

Kaschan, on 11 January 2017 - 09:41 PM, said:

well fuck that for a game of darts. Yet another uninspiring performance. Can slows the game down far too much, he should have been taken of for Couts instead of gini. But I'm not the manager so what do I know.
reading

Apart from that, two things really stand out to me on catching up:

This post from Fanderay. On the surface, doesn't look too weird, except that the comment about people being too cagey was literally 4 posts above this. It just seems like an effort to not mention Kessobahn (who made the comment). Is he trying to avoid them being linked?

Fanderay, on 11 January 2017 - 05:26 PM, said:

I agree with whomever said that people are being too cagey so far this game. Based on the limited number of posts I have nothing on a day 1 case.

Also this post:

Fanderay, on 11 January 2017 - 07:27 PM, said:

Fanderay 10
Gamelon 9
Kessobahn 7
Path-Shaper 5
Okaros 4
Kaschan 3
Ultama 3
Lock 3
Telas 2
Serc 1
Omtose 1

Seriously? There's not enough to get a read here. Out of such slim pickings, why does Kaschan stand out?

Having just said that there isn't enough on thread at all to make any lynch, Fanderay questions why Gamelon has targeted Kaschan. The 'seriously' seems overly incredulous for what at this stage is always going to be a thin case, when we have this little to go on for day one.

I'm still getting a feel for what has happened on thread while I was away, but I'll be around to chat if anyone wants to talk.

Particularly the part about Fanderay potentially trying to not link himself to Kesso, which is absolutely something scum would do re: their scum partner.

[Lock]

Fanderay, on 16 January 2017 - 08:45 PM, said:

now that everyone has checked in since the freeze, can we also look at the elephant in the room?

why no nk?

i see 3 possible explanations:

1) The killer was guarded
2) The killer didnt have a provisional and didnt get their order in
3) The killer decided to withold their kill

Since no one is making any claims, and it would be a big gamble to withold a kill when scum is looking at either 1:6 or 2:5 numbers, I think it was most likely someone that wasn't around.

Anyways, that is the final reason why i started leaning Lock. I just wanted to wait on other check ins first.

Oh come on, so now he's basically saying without actually saying that if someone used a heal or a guard they should be revealing.

If this is the case, PLEASE DO NOT DO SO. Better to keep the killer (aka Fanderay) on their toes.

Role speculation only helps scum.

[Fanderay]

Lock, on 16 January 2017 - 08:50 PM, said:

Fanderay, on 16 January 2017 - 08:45 PM, said:

now that everyone has checked in since the freeze, can we also look at the elephant in the room?

why no nk?

i see 3 possible explanations:

1) The killer was guarded
2) The killer didnt have a provisional and didnt get their order in
3) The killer decided to withold their kill

Since no one is making any claims, and it would be a big gamble to withold a kill when scum is looking at either 1:6 or 2:5 numbers, I think it was most likely someone that wasn't around.

Anyways, that is the final reason why i started leaning Lock. I just wanted to wait on other check ins first.

Oh come on, so now he's basically saying without actually saying that if someone used a heal or a guard they should be revealing.

If this is the case, PLEASE DO NOT DO SO. Better to keep the killer (aka Fanderay) on their toes.

Role speculation only helps scum.

*Rolls eyes*

So first we dont have enough nunbers for a symp, but now there are enough for a healer and a guard? Get your story straight!!

[Lock]

Fanderay, on 16 January 2017 - 08:54 PM, said:

Lock, on 16 January 2017 - 08:50 PM, said:

Fanderay, on 16 January 2017 - 08:45 PM, said:

now that everyone has checked in since the freeze, can we also look at the elephant in the room?

why no nk?

i see 3 possible explanations:

1) The killer was guarded
2) The killer didnt have a provisional and didnt get their order in
3) The killer decided to withold their kill

Since no one is making any claims, and it would be a big gamble to withold a kill when scum is looking at either 1:6 or 2:5 numbers, I think it was most likely someone that wasn't around.

Anyways, that is the final reason why i started leaning Lock. I just wanted to wait on other check ins first.

Oh come on, so now he's basically saying without actually saying that if someone used a heal or a guard they should be revealing.

If this is the case, PLEASE DO NOT DO SO. Better to keep the killer (aka Fanderay) on their toes.

Role speculation only helps scum.

*Rolls eyes*

So first we dont have enough nunbers for a symp, but now there are enough for a healer and a guard? Get your story straight!!

See, jumping on anything to try to discredit me... again. I think someone's worried that I'll convince you all.


I've made my point of view on this very clear. However, you're role speculating, so I'm responding by saying that this is a scummy move, and that your post in general was scummy as fuck. I don't believe there are roled town in the game, but that doesn't mean that I'm necessarily right, and I'm a big enough person to admit that I may not be right. As much as I'd like to believe that I know what's going on, I'm not some sort of omniscient Mafia god... I don't know how Siergiej set up his game and how much or how little information he gave us. I only say what I think is correct, then try to keep in mind that I could be incorrect.

[Lock]

Like, it astounds me how completely out of context your response to that post was.

I never said there WAS a guard AND a healer.

I said that IF there was a guard OR a healer, they should keep their mouths shut instead of drawing the kill by revealing as you suggested.

[Fanderay]

Lock, on 16 January 2017 - 09:00 PM, said:

Like, it astounds me how completely out of context your response to that post was.

I never said there WAS a guard AND a healer.

I said that IF there was a guard OR a healer, they should keep their mouths shut instead of drawing the kill by revealing as you suggested.

I don't think there is one personally. If there was, odds are it would be a guard, and whoever they guarded last night is the last killer, so Game Over.

[Okaros]

Lock, on 16 January 2017 - 08:50 PM, said:

Fanderay, on 16 January 2017 - 08:45 PM, said:

now that everyone has checked in since the freeze, can we also look at the elephant in the room?

why no nk?

i see 3 possible explanations:

1) The killer was guarded
2) The killer didnt have a provisional and didnt get their order in
3) The killer decided to withold their kill

Since no one is making any claims, and it would be a big gamble to withold a kill when scum is looking at either 1:6 or 2:5 numbers, I think it was most likely someone that wasn't around.

Anyways, that is the final reason why i started leaning Lock. I just wanted to wait on other check ins first.

Oh come on, so now he's basically saying without actually saying that if someone used a heal or a guard they should be revealing.

If this is the case, PLEASE DO NOT DO SO. Better to keep the killer (aka Fanderay) on their toes.

Role speculation only helps scum.

This doesn't make sense. If there is a guard (which is what is implied by the fact that there was no night kill), they'd know who the last killer was, so their reveal would win us the game. I'm not saying there is a guard, just that your logic is faulty.

[Telas]

Fanderay, on 16 January 2017 - 08:54 PM, said:

Lock, on 16 January 2017 - 08:50 PM, said:

Fanderay, on 16 January 2017 - 08:45 PM, said:

now that everyone has checked in since the freeze, can we also look at the elephant in the room?

why no nk?

i see 3 possible explanations:

1) The killer was guarded
2) The killer didnt have a provisional and didnt get their order in
3) The killer decided to withold their kill

Since no one is making any claims, and it would be a big gamble to withold a kill when scum is looking at either 1:6 or 2:5 numbers, I think it was most likely someone that wasn't around.

Anyways, that is the final reason why i started leaning Lock. I just wanted to wait on other check ins first.

Oh come on, so now he's basically saying without actually saying that if someone used a heal or a guard they should be revealing.

If this is the case, PLEASE DO NOT DO SO. Better to keep the killer (aka Fanderay) on their toes.

Role speculation only helps scum.

*Rolls eyes*

So first we dont have enough nunbers for a symp, but now there are enough for a healer and a guard? Get your story straight!!

That's a bit of a hyperbole there. Just because someone doesn't believe in a particular role distribution it doesn't prevent them from speaking of another player's actions as if that player believes in that particular distribution.

Fandy, I think this putting words into people's mouths is what set Serc off so much too. It certainly seems kinda scummy.

[Lock]

Okaros, on 16 January 2017 - 09:19 PM, said:

Lock, on 16 January 2017 - 08:50 PM, said:

Fanderay, on 16 January 2017 - 08:45 PM, said:

now that everyone has checked in since the freeze, can we also look at the elephant in the room?

why no nk?

i see 3 possible explanations:

1) The killer was guarded
2) The killer didnt have a provisional and didnt get their order in
3) The killer decided to withold their kill

Since no one is making any claims, and it would be a big gamble to withold a kill when scum is looking at either 1:6 or 2:5 numbers, I think it was most likely someone that wasn't around.

Anyways, that is the final reason why i started leaning Lock. I just wanted to wait on other check ins first.

Oh come on, so now he's basically saying without actually saying that if someone used a heal or a guard they should be revealing.

If this is the case, PLEASE DO NOT DO SO. Better to keep the killer (aka Fanderay) on their toes.

Role speculation only helps scum.

This doesn't make sense. If there is a guard (which is what is implied by the fact that there was no night kill), they'd know who the last killer was, so their reveal would win us the game. I'm not saying there is a guard, just that your logic is faulty.

Ok, sure, but that's not the case if it's a healer. Honestly, I want to think that the killer just forgot to put in an order, but that certainly doesn't really support my belief that Fanderay is scum given he's probably the most active player left in the game.

[Fanderay]

Telas, on 16 January 2017 - 09:27 PM, said:

Fanderay, on 16 January 2017 - 08:54 PM, said:

Lock, on 16 January 2017 - 08:50 PM, said:

Fanderay, on 16 January 2017 - 08:45 PM, said:

now that everyone has checked in since the freeze, can we also look at the elephant in the room?

why no nk?

i see 3 possible explanations:

1) The killer was guarded
2) The killer didnt have a provisional and didnt get their order in
3) The killer decided to withold their kill

Since no one is making any claims, and it would be a big gamble to withold a kill when scum is looking at either 1:6 or 2:5 numbers, I think it was most likely someone that wasn't around.

Anyways, that is the final reason why i started leaning Lock. I just wanted to wait on other check ins first.

Oh come on, so now he's basically saying without actually saying that if someone used a heal or a guard they should be revealing.

If this is the case, PLEASE DO NOT DO SO. Better to keep the killer (aka Fanderay) on their toes.

Role speculation only helps scum.

*Rolls eyes*

So first we dont have enough nunbers for a symp, but now there are enough for a healer and a guard? Get your story straight!!

That's a bit of a hyperbole there. Just because someone doesn't believe in a particular role distribution it doesn't prevent them from speaking of another player's actions as if that player believes in that particular distribution.

Fandy, I think this putting words into people's mouths is what set Serc off so much too. It certainly seems kinda scummy.

I disagree. He was pretty vocal about not having enough numbers for symp, but as soon as I bring up no NK he started to yell that if there is a roled player they need to keep their mouths shut. I think if we had someone roled, then healer is least likely. They are usually pretty ineffective unless they are put into a larger game with a guard or finder.

IF we have a guard or finder, then I think I'd be PId by now. Playing a vocal game like I have would should have drawn their attention night 1 or 2.

The only person likely to fake reveal would be a symp if we have one, but if they do that we'd just turn around and lynch them the next day.

WCS based on our numbers, you could lynch Lock then me if he CF's town and you still don't trust.me. That would then leave 2 town and 1 scum, which I think are pretty good odds for a town win.

So laying it all out, if I were scum, how could I win playing the game like I've chosen?

[Telas]

Not home yet, but that's a terrible, terrible, wifom-laden argument.

I'm conflicted which one of you I find more scummy at the moment.

[Ultama]

I'm in a similar spot to yours Telas. It's a real clusterfuck between them.

After some time thinking it over, I'm leaning Lock though. Fandy looks so unbelievably scummy that it would take brass balls to pull what she has been doing as scum. I also have a habit of looking at her as scum every game though.

Lock has been playing it much more safely and has been missing for a large amount of the game. The no nk due to not bring around to submit provisionals theory fits him to a t as well. Finally, if we don't lynch him, we're doomed to keep coming back to this point due to Telas' Eiffel Tower hardon.

Finally, gut. Just gut.

Vote Lock

[Omtose]

That's Lock at L-1.

I would personally prefer a Fanderay lynch, for reasons I set out yesterday and due to the fact that she has not done anything that has changed my mind. But I think we have around 1 hour or less left, so I'm going to hammer

Vote Lock

[Kaschan]

Slept in for work.

I guess we're waiting for PS now then