[Morgoth]

It's easier to pretend outrage than to actually present something of substance.

[Gorefest]

The EU now has 1 GB of free space.....

[Abyss]

Quebec separatists are going to start getting ideas from this.

Fuck.

[Darkwatch]

Abyss, on 24 June 2016 - 04:19 PM, said:

Quebec separatists are going to start getting ideas from this.

Fuck.

They might, didn't hear much about it last night*. Also many separatists are big fans of the EU so the idea of separating from it isn't something they're keen on. If Scotland moves to separate again after this then we'll hear about it for sure. So far our best insurance is the fact that the Federal Liberals have cleaved closer to what the province wants than Provincial liberals who are once again mired in scandal while the PQ is (fittingly) divided more than ever.

*The leader of ON not withstanding, but the guy is basically an angry 1st year philosophy student. There's not much that doesn't make him rant.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 24 June 2016 - 04:19 PM, said:

Quebec separatists are going to start getting ideas from this.

Fuck.

Indeed, and considering the Quebec Referendum track record: In 1980 is was 60% to 40% against separating, and in 1995 is was very nearly 50/50 with the against side only barely squeaking out...I fear for what one would look like today. That said, the political party that would call it (the Bloc) has been on the low end of things these days, so hopefully that would be reflected in voters in Quebec. But it will certainly give the Bloc ideas for SURE.

If they ever separated it would be a social-economic and geographic-bordered shitshow. I mean we are talking about effectively cutting Western and Central Canada off from the Maritimes completely and having a sovereign country in the middle of our nation...my god.

[Tiste Simeon]

Flipping heck this topic is so hot it brought DW out of his eternal slumber!!

[Darkwatch]

Tiste Simeon, on 24 June 2016 - 05:14 PM, said:

Flipping heck this topic is so hot it brought DW out of his eternal slumber!!

It is one of those times. Felt like making sure the people I knew who are directly affected by it (most of you guys) were ok.

[Tiste Simeon]

At least Tatts' Lizard People didn't win (though if anyone is NWO it would be Rupert Murdoch, a very racist very non-British, non-tax payer who controls most of the media round here and is chummy with a bunch of high ups...)

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

And is a Grade A Twatbasket. You forgot his most defining characteristic, Sim!

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 24 June 2016 - 05:46 PM

[Primateus]

http://m.motherjones...aim-was-mistake

It has begun...

[Tiste Simeon]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 24 June 2016 - 05:46 PM, said:

And is a Grade A Twatbasket. You forgot his most defining characteristic, Sim!

I assumed that this fact was just a given...

And in other astonishing, heart breaking infuriating news...
http://www.standard....n-a3280361.html

[QuickTidal]

Tiste Simeon, on 24 June 2016 - 06:06 PM, said:

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 24 June 2016 - 05:46 PM, said:

And is a Grade A Twatbasket. You forgot his most defining characteristic, Sim!

I assumed that this fact was just a given...

Also, that he's a climate change denier who took over one of the last bastions of natural/science press in the world (National Geographic Magazine) with a majority share...making that magazine now worthy only of lining litter boxes. He's basically one of the richest and worst humans on the planet.

[LinearPhilosopher]

Mentalist, on 24 June 2016 - 01:30 PM, said:

FYI, I don't equate Trump supporters witracists. h There's overlap, sure, but I'm much more interested in the "frustrated voters" narrative we've been observing for years now. It taps deep into xenophobia, true, but I think it goes deeper than that.

Primarily what we're seeing is a result from growing disconnect between the elite and those voting them in. Short-term nature of modern Western politics (circumscribed by a short election cycle) means no accomplished politician offers a strategic vision of the future. Say what you will about the Communists, but they offered people a dream. Western politicians don't offer dreams. They offer material, consumerist prosperity. And therefore any time a state experiences ANY economic setback (which are inevitable, in the cyclical nature of capitalism), the "people" who feel entitled to prosperity judge it a political failure.

Cue coming up with easy solutions and looking for scapegoats to survive the next election. Meanwhile, systemic problems accumulate. Eventually, people get fed up with the same measured BS, and become receptive to more radical ideas, especially those tickling their self-esteem- we're the best ever, it's only XYZ holding us back, let's get rid of them!

In a way, sure, it's a "revolution". But a very cynical and well-designed one.

I've a coworker whos a trump supporter (yes they exist in canada) and though he obviously doesn't see himself as racist fact of the matter is he frequently makes points such as Obamas is taking in more muslim refugees than xtian ones, he sent me a video on how obama hates xtians and he even goes so far as to say there an issue with islam and crazy islamists (but not so much crazy xtians or anything)

Sorry man they are a xenophobic lot, they just don't see themselves as such.

you've hit it on the head though, the vast unwashed masses who have feelings of resentment towards the supposed evils of globalisation "free trade" and the elites and being harnassed by a bunch of loudmouths, and as long as those loudmouths say what these people want to hear they will continue to accumulate power, regardless of whether or not what they say has any basis in reality.

Was listening to the radio earlier and it was an interview with a guy who was studying the backfire effect, falls perfectly in line with what we are experiencing.

http://bigthink.com/...t-win-arguments

This post has been edited by LinearPhilosopher: 24 June 2016 - 06:51 PM

[amphibian]

Regarding the Murdoch owned National Geographic, I have subscribed since 1990 and I see a few changes, yet not to the level of going against climate change.

What seems to be happening more is the coverage of easily photogenic things, rather than more difficult things like sectarian violence in East Africa or Filipino smuggling or Russian/Chinese stashing of money overseas.

[Tiste Simeon]

QuickTidal, on 24 June 2016 - 06:38 PM, said:

Tiste Simeon, on 24 June 2016 - 06:06 PM, said:

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 24 June 2016 - 05:46 PM, said:

And is a Grade A Twatbasket. You forgot his most defining characteristic, Sim!

I assumed that this fact was just a given...

Also, that he's a climate change denier who took over one of the last bastions of natural/science press in the world (National Geographic Magazine) with a majority share...making that magazine now worthy only of lining litter boxes. He's basically one of the richest and worst humans on the planet.

Yep. Very pro-brexit too. All his papers have been pushing for weeks... Hence my original post about Tatts' NWO stuff. If anyone would be involved in that kind of thing it'd be him. Not one of the remain lot...

[Werthead]

This was a genuinely bewildering result that makes no sense. When you step back and look at the whole picture you can see that the Leave campaign won by forming an alliance between the hard-right of the Conservative Party and the disenfranchised, older Labour supported who hasn't voted since the Thatcher era, on the basis that they will pour more money into public services.

If you tried selling that story on Wednesday you'd be labelled a lunatic fantasist. Yet it's somehow happened.

This is good and bad for the Tories. Good, because it's given them this result. Bad, because they've sold Leave to those Labour voters as being the solution to all their problems. When we get 4 years down the line and immigration is still a problem, austerity is still biting and there's been further downturns (even without Brexit, we're due another major downturn in the next couple of years anyway) and there still aren't enough jobs and benefits are still being cut and British industry hasn't arisen phoenix-like from the ashes and the NHS is still being sold off piece-by-piece and house prices are still unaffordable, that demographic is probably going to be more than a bit pissed off.

If Corbyn was the ruthless marshaller of the working classes that some think he is and he survives next week's leadership challenge (a near-certainty, since the popular vote will return him without any question whatsoever), he'd ride his well-publicised disdain for the EU (helped by his near-instant embracing of the decision), soak up and sympathise with that working class anger and transform it into a major hard (or at least middle) left-Labour victory in 2020. Okay, maybe not very likely. But it's certainly an issue that there is this very large wellspring of annoyed working-class voters that no-one has really managed to tap into for the last five elections in a row that could be around for the taking, and if it's not Labour it might be UKIP who start hoovering them up next time.

Quote

I've heard it actually takes a few years of negotiation before the Brexit is actually finalized. Any chance that say in one year a new vote might just reverse this decision?

As Tiste has pointed out, this is essentially a poll -- a pretty exhaustive one, with plenty of apparent power, but nevertheless technically non-binding. And yah I've heard it described as political suicide to defy the popular vote -- but is it really? And aside from those political stakes, isn't one of the points of a representative government to overrule the worst impulses of popular opinion? What exactly would the fallout be?

The only possible way around it is if there is a new general election - quite possible - and the parties run in that election on the basis of enacting the referendum or not. The general election result would then superscede the referendum one.

I think this would be a monumental mistake on every single level, though, especially given the very real possibility we'd end up with a large number of UKIP MPs.

Quote

So although the actual negotiations will take years (people talk about a full withdrawal by 2020 at the very earliest, probably more like 7 years),

Article 50 gives a strict 2-year timetable for negotiations, which can then be extended only by mutual consent of all parties involved. Britain would be out of the EU by October 2018, unless both Britain and the EU decided to keep negotiating over some point.

Quote

It was never much of a hope - "just a fool's hope" as a certain wizard once said - but I really felt that Corbyn was the hope for change. If Labour no confidence him, they'll elect another Blair or Milliband and that will be it, the Tories will stay in.

I don't think so. If Corbyn survives the no-confidence vote, he may become more powerful than anyone could have possibly foreseen (but probably won't), see above.

Quote

Yep. Very pro-brexit too. All his papers have been pushing for weeks... Hence my original post about Tatts' NWO stuff. If anyone would be involved in that kind of thing it'd be him. Not one of the remain lot...

The Times actually went all-in for Remain, to the surprise of some people, but not to those of us who've worked for it in the past. It pretty much is the paper of the London businessman and the well-to-do retiree with money in foreign pots.

[Siergiej]

Isn't it ironic? A country that colonized half the world now hands out Europe to the likes of Farage and Le Pen with popular vote. Deeply saddened by the outcome. Economic issues aside, what really bothers me is that in 2016 a huge mass of people would still rather be divided than united.

[Slow Ben]

Haven't read the first 3 pages, so apologies if it's a repost.

But I found this amusing.

http://www.npr.org/s...ter-brexit-vote

[Morgoth]

Tiste Simeon, on 24 June 2016 - 05:42 PM, said:

At least Tatts' Lizard People didn't win (though if anyone is NWO it would be Rupert Murdoch, a very racist very non-British, non-tax payer who controls most of the media round here and is chummy with a bunch of high ups...)

Dude, don't you know? The Queen is the Head Lizard. You're all fucked now.

[Itwæs Nom]

Morgoth, on 24 June 2016 - 11:38 PM, said:

Tiste Simeon, on 24 June 2016 - 05:42 PM, said:

At least Tatts' Lizard People didn't win (though if anyone is NWO it would be Rupert Murdoch, a very racist very non-British, non-tax payer who controls most of the media round here and is chummy with a bunch of high ups...)

Dude, don't you know? The Queen is the Head Lizard. You're all fucked now.

Better than the body part with the other end of the tube that americans seem soon to be dealing with