[Mezla PigDog]

Abyss, on 24 May 2024 - 01:24 PM, said:

So is this just a frustrating 'least of all evils' election for you guys, or is it more of a 'good vs evil' thing a la 'anyone vs Trump' in the US?

For me, somewhere in between because the "Good" side are not as inspiring as they could be. And we are wondering if the "Good" leader is hedging his bets to not scare off the floating "evil" voters and will suddenly transform into a super hero upon election. Or is he really as uninspired as he appears?

But the other side are definitely evil. Evil and blatantly incompetent. So it kind of doesn't matter which scenario we are looking at.

[Maark Abbott]

Sunak saying he wants to introduce mandatory national service again.

I am glad I do not have children and I would be terrified if I did. The idea of national service is just utterly alien to me.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Sunak really seems to be doing a great job of throwing the election. Has he secretly converted to the Greens? (If so, he could give an amazing concession speech about it... while burning the Tories to bloody ashes as much as he can possibly manage.)

Because obviously there are few better ways to motivate the youth turnout (in the UK at least) than making them believe you're going to institute mandatory military service. With the justification being that they need to "protect" the UK from, IDK... being invaded by Russia? Unless all those Russian oligarchs digging vast complexes underneath London to circumvent zoning restrictions have been using them to amass vast armies of killer drones and/or weapons of mass destruction (ready to invade London after it's been taken over by Russia with their killer robots, toxic clouds, and bioweapons run amok?)...

Quote

this national service scheme was sold, cynically, as a revival of the postwar 1949-63 National Service, capital N capital S; the Prime Minister was photographed grinning with soldiers. He explicitly connected the announcement to "protecting our nation… our defence spending pledge" and foregrounded enrolment on the 12-month military placement.

This was pitched directly at elderly, disillusioned voters, pressing buttons marked "long-haired idlers"

Spoiler

[...] it was also – let's use a good 1950s word – cobblers. The military element of the proposed scheme is capped at 30,000 places and in areas such as logistics and cyber security. So that is a grand total of one in 20 of all 18-year-olds [...]

Ministers[...] immediately explained that nobody would be sent to jail for refusing to take part in national service and were completely unable to explain what sanctions there would be. Would people be ordered to do community service for refusing to turn up for community service?

[...] In a Britain where "nothing works" it is a complete and ludicrous fantasy.

Rishi Sunak’s national service plan is a ludicrous fantasy - New Statesman

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 26 May 2024 - 01:45 PM

[Tiste Simeon]

Yeah it does seem a little like he's trying to throw it, especially if you consider he's kind of been thrown to the wolves by his party...

However, it is also true that there are tons of gammons who mutter about the youth of today and how we should bring back National service, teach them some discipline etc. so he's possibly playing to the Brexit/Reform crowd there.

It should also be noted that the aforementioned gammons never had to do it themselves.

[stone monkey]

Tiste Simeon, on 26 May 2024 - 04:01 PM, said:

Yeah it does seem a little like he's trying to throw it, especially if you consider he's kind of been thrown to the wolves by his party...

However, it is also true that there are tons of gammons who mutter about the youth of today and how we should bring back National service, teach them some discipline etc. so he's possibly playing to the Brexit/Reform crowd there.

It should also be noted that the aforementioned gammons never had to do it themselves.

This is very much who it's for. If Reform get a significant chunk of the Tory vote this time there's probably little chance we'll be seeing a Reform MP, but the Tories will be screwed. And this goes doubly so if tactical voting is a factor; which, from the Local Authority elections a few weeks back, it looks like it will be. The gammons have this fantasy-1950s idea of a Britain that never really existed that they want to revive (it's more like "reify" tbh, but try explaining what that word means to them); y'know, before all the LGBTQ people, women and POCs started getting "ideas above their station". National Service is really just shorthand for all of that.
It doesn't matter that the Armed Forces definitely don't want it. It doesn't matter that it would cost an arm and a leg and that money would have to come from somewhere. It even doesn't matter what National Servce was actually like: I'm old enough to have spent time in the workplace with people who actually did National Service, and some of the stories I heard from them, the ones without the rose-tinted spectacles, are pretty horrific.

This post has been edited by stone monkey: 26 May 2024 - 10:56 PM

[Mezla PigDog]

Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves went to Mr PigDogs workplace today. They did a Town Hall meeting with unplanned questions. He said Keir seems like a decent sort in person. Suitably statesman like and they both answered questions like pro's.

So that's level 1 politician status attained. Gaffe-free visit.

[Maark Abbott]

 Mezla PigDog, on 28 May 2024 - 08:14 PM, said:

Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves went to Mr PigDogs workplace today. They did a Town Hall meeting with unplanned questions. He said Keir seems like a decent sort in person. Suitably statesman like and they both answered questions like pro's.

So that's level 1 politician status attained. Gaffe-free visit.

One of my best pals is a postie and he's said much the same. Also said that he seems much more grounded in worker's rights in person.

The public record makes me skeptical but at the same time the pal in question is someone I trust and he's never bullshitted about this sort of stuff...

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Quote

It wasn't quite John Major's vision of old maids cycling through the mist to church. But the sepia-tinted memories Keir Starmer recounted in his first big campaign speech of growing up in [a] town he called "about as English as you can get", weren't a million miles away. [...] he also talked nostalgically about the ramshackle football pitch he played on, and shared with grazing cows, and what he called the British air of "quiet uncomplaining resilience" [...]

Talking to the people who can actually deliver him a majority, instead of lifelong Labour supporters, embodies the brutal realism that has got him to the brink of government. Yet realism goes only so far, judging by Labour's reluctance to explain exactly how it intends to fix utterly broken public services without raising income tax and national insurance – as Rachel Reeves swears they wouldn't – or busting self-imposed rules on borrowing.

Realism got Starmer here. But so far he's fighting this election with fantasy economics | Gaby Hinsliff | The Guardian

Hey xenophobes and racists! Did you notice that Sunak is brown? And his name is Rishi?!?!

Brutal realism indeed... hmm. Hopefully I'm being excessively cynical. But he does seem to be playing a bit of the ethno-nationalist card there, eh?...

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 28 May 2024 - 09:39 PM

[Mezla PigDog]

Well it's less that he his pointing out the contrast with Sunak in terms of ethnicity and more that he is playing to tired old tropes of Englishness that everyone right of centre here clings to. You would be hard pushed to find an election ever in this country where the wannabe leaders haven't rolled a version of the same thing out.

There is no escaping that we are basically a very racist country. We just try a little harder to hide it with smoke and mirrors now.

[Maark Abbott]

Mezla PigDog, on 29 May 2024 - 07:14 AM, said:

Well it's less that he his pointing out the contrast with Sunak in terms of ethnicity and more that he is playing to tired old tropes of Englishness that everyone right of centre here clings to. You would be hard pushed to find an election ever in this country where the wannabe leaders haven't rolled a version of the same thing out.

There is no escaping that we are basically a very racist country. We just try a little harder to hide it with smoke and mirrors now.

Well, for the perceptions of outsiders somewhat (and even then unsuccessfully). Internally I don't think there is a huge amount of effort expended to hide it.

It's gotten noticeably worse over the last 15 years of Tory government given that they have done everything they can to fan the 'you vs them' mentality amongst the commons.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

 Maark Abbott, on 28 May 2024 - 08:37 PM, said:

 Mezla PigDog, on 28 May 2024 - 08:14 PM, said:

Keir Starmer and Rachel Reeves went to Mr PigDogs workplace today. They did a Town Hall meeting with unplanned questions. He said Keir seems like a decent sort in person. Suitably statesman like and they both answered questions like pro's.

So that's level 1 politician status attained. Gaffe-free visit.

One of my best pals is a postie and he's said much the same. Also said that he seems much more grounded in worker's rights in person.

The public record makes me skeptical but at the same time the pal in question is someone I trust and he's never bullshitted about this sort of stuff...

This is good to hear!

We met our local Labour candidate (we're in a newly drawn constituency now) on Monday, he did doorstep visits on our street. I've never had a doorstep visit from a candidate of any party before.

Seemed a nice chap and he has a good record as the Wakefield MP, particularly in saving a local walk-in centre.

I gather there are some Tory voters on the street though since he looked ready for a hard time before we said we're Labour voters.

He wins about a million points before doing anything given the pure fact he isn't Andrea Jenkyns, mind.

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 30 May 2024 - 08:48 AM

[Maark Abbott]

Our local MPs seem mostly oreyt. The local labour councillor I trust.

[Tiste Simeon]

When I lived in Oldham our Labour guy was a decent sort and I would always vote for him because the second biggest group in the area was quite often UKIP and I saw it as my civic duty to do all I could to prevent them from getting anywhere near power.

I'd probably vote them again because a) lack of alternatives and he actually seemed to care about the area. So despite my skeptical view of Starmer I think I could stomach voting for Labour.

Of course I technically don't live in the UK now so it's a moot point.

[worry]

Isle of Man is run by a hedgehog wearing a top hat.

[Abyss]

 worry, on 30 May 2024 - 01:55 PM, said:

Isle of Man is run by a evil hedgehog wearing a top hat.

fixed

[Tiste Simeon]

Shhh we don't mention Lord Spikington!

[Abyss]

 Tiste Simeon, on 30 May 2024 - 05:25 PM, said:

Shhh we don't mention dread Lord Spikington may his spikes shine like little spiky stars for all eternity and beyond!

fixeder

[Tiste Simeon]

 Abyss, on 30 May 2024 - 05:27 PM, said:

 Tiste Simeon, on 30 May 2024 - 05:25 PM, said:

Shhh we don't mention dread Lord Spikington may his spikes shine like little spiky stars for all eternity and beyond!

fixeder

Stop fixing everything it makes me prickly!

[Maark Abbott]

 Abyss, on 30 May 2024 - 03:59 PM, said:

 worry, on 30 May 2024 - 01:55 PM, said:

Isle of Man is run by a evil hedgehog wearing a top hat.

fixed

he's been thinking about why so many in the radical left participate in 'speedrunning'.

[Abyss]

 Tiste Simeon, on 30 May 2024 - 07:13 PM, said:

 Abyss, on 30 May 2024 - 05:27 PM, said:

 Tiste Simeon, on 30 May 2024 - 05:25 PM, said:

Shhh we don't mention dread Lord Spikington may his spikes shine like little spiky stars for all eternity and beyond!

fixeder

Stop fixing everything it makes me prickly LIKE OUR GUIDING LIGHT AND MASTER THE DREAD LORD SPIKINGTON MAY HIS SPIKEY SPIKES SHINE FOR A BILLION BILLION YEARS!

fixiest